One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I think current Zoro can accomplish all that Yamato did (even assuming Kaido was not holding back against Yamato, which he most likely was). In fact, offensively, he even did much more. While defensively, we can't be sure. Zoro went down faster, but he also tanked a combo attack from Kaido+Big Mom.
And King seems slightly stronger than current Zoro (Zoro will end up stronger by the end of the fight, but that would be him growing)
As for having better Devil Fruit, King's base is stronger than Yamato's, which makes up for his weaker DF.

I'm not saying King can accomplish what Yamato did, to do this against Kaido, you need conqueror's haki, which we haven't seen from King yet. There is no way King can accomplish what Zoro did either (assuming he doesn't have conqeuror's haki), but this doesn't mean he's not stronger than Zoro (at least for now)
Still on overall stats, I'd say Yamato and King are comparable, with King having an edge. Conqueror's haki is a deciding factor only against Kaido as far as we know. For the rest, having strong armament haki is good enough.

Zoro in context blocked it briefly and nearly died , it was impressive but it was a second and it would have annihilated him of law didn’t save so it’s 50:50 , it’s mad impressive but there’s a caveat
They’re comparable maybe Yamato has the actual feats of the most high level techniques
Yamato has an actual mastery of Conqurors coated attacks so she edges Zoro there
Also she fought kaido 1 on 1 for the longest we’ve seen so far , Zoro at least had support and help

 

[grey matter]

Zoro in context blocked it briefly and nearly died , it was impressive but it was a second and it would have annihilated him of law didn’t save so it’s 50:50 , it’s mad impressive but there’s a caveat
They’re comparable maybe Yamato has the actual feats of the most high level techniques
Yamato has an actual mastery of Conqurors coated attacks so she edges Zoro there
Also she fought kaido 1 on 1 for the longest we’ve seen so far , Zoro at least had support and help

I mean, yeah. We haven't seen anything from King yet. So, we can't really compare feats.
My comparison is purely based on scaling King slightly above current Zoro.

As for Yamato vs Zoro, I think we've seen enough to conclude Zoro > Yamato in pure offense and speed.
For defense, IMO:
- Zoro and Yamato are comparable if Kaido was holding back against Yamato (I'm fairly certain this is the case)
- Yamato has better defense, if Kaido wasn't holding back
Overall (accounting for both offense, defense and speed), Zoro = Yamato if Kaido was serious against her, Zoro is slightly above Yamato if Kaido was somewhat holding back

And conqueror's haki is mostly not the deciding factor unless you're up against Kaido. King hasn't shown conqueror's haki yet, but is overwhelming Zoro.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I mean, yeah. We haven't seen anything from King yet. So, we can't really compare feats.
My comparison is purely based on scaling King slightly above current Zoro.

As for Yamato vs Zoro, I think we've seen enough to conclude Zoro > Yamato in pure offense and speed.
For defense, IMO:
- Zoro and Yamato are comparable if Kaido was holding back against Yamato (I'm fairly certain this is the case)
- Yamato has better defense, if Kaido wasn't holding back
Overall (accounting for both offense, defense and speed), Zoro = Yamato if Kaido was serious against her, Zoro is slightly above Yamato if Kaido was somewhat holding back

And conqueror's haki is mostly not the deciding factor unless you're up against Kaido. King hasn't shown conqueror's haki yet, but is overwhelming Zoro.

Kaido was grinning and joking with supernovas at times
With kaido he’s actually tired of their shit and literally said multiple times , from kaido and Yamato admission , that he wasn’t holding back , he’s going as serious against Yamato imo than he did as much or more than he did against the supernova

 

[LadyVados]

How is this conclusive? I honestly don't really care who's stronger, though I'm sure Vados is arguing King is just because he's Zoro's opponent. I'm curious is all, because Marco was unable to take out King, just as King and Queen were unable to take out Marco.

My argument is King wasn't using Hybrid against Marco and Hybrid form is a big power-up.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 2, 2021 ---

That's 100% why Vados thinks he's stronger. And read the last part of your sentence. Marco was fighting both King and Queen, King not fully taking out Marco is more of an indictment on him than vice versa.

I think he's stronger because he didn't use Hybrid against Marco while Marco did. Also he tanked attacks from Enma which is capable of damaging Kaido.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 2, 2021 ---

So was Kaido vs Luffy 1 an outlier or are Kata and Cracker super weak ?

 

[grey matter]

Kaido was grinning and joking with supernovas at times
With kaido he’s actually tired of their shit and literally said multiple times , from kaido and Yamato admission , that he wasn’t holding back , he’s going as serious against Yamato imo than he did as much or more than he did against the supernova

Kaido was laughing around all of them, including Yamato, because he sees everyone as fodder to him.

Kaido wanted the supernovas dead regardless this time, instead of throwing them in prison.

For Yamato, it's more like "back down, I'll hurt you". I'm 100% sure he wouldn't have killed her. He, just a page or two above, wanted to make her Shogun and back down from the fight. She had fought him countless times before with the intention of killing him, and he only knocks her out
If he really wanted her dead, I'm certain that she would already be. He almost killed Luffy, accidentally missed killing him and instead threw him to the sea, and Luffy who fought Kaido back then > Yamato (he was shown actually damaging Kaido and even occasionally blitzing him)

Anyway, looks like we're getting nowhere with this lol.
I suppose we can agree that they're all close enough to be same tier, irrespective of who is stronger?

 

[LadyVados]

@grey matter What'll be your opinion of Zoro if he completely destroys King after getting his power-up ? Admiral level ?

 

[grey matter]

@grey matter What'll be your opinion of Zoro if he completely destroys King after getting his power-up ? Admiral level ?

It depends on execution. But yeah, he would be if that happens, unless there is some catch (which isn't unsual in OP)

Generally speaking, anyone who can mid diff King is admiral level for sure IMO.

 

[LadyVados]

We know of only 3 characters who have supreme grade swords.

WB, Roger… and Mihawk.

If that isn’t Oda’s way of telling us something I don’t know what is.

 

[albertwv]

Ace vs Yamato really doesnt prove anything. If anything it shows Yamato was strong enough to fight off Ace without using her DF power. Ace never showed signs of CoA even when others did. Yamato let's say is YC1 level at the very least, Ace is nowhere near that level.
Pre TS Ace = Post TS Sabo holds no weight. Sabo > Ace does because Sabo actually knows CoA is proficient in using it.
To make extra clear, Sabo DOES NOT have Ryou Haki confirmed. So please stop pretending he does, not until the manga confirms it. Either way having Ryou haki doesnt mean you get to be YC1 level or higher. The Boa sisters and Sentomaru have it but they are not that strong.

Ace was equal to Jimbei but weaker than Jozu and Vista.
Can Sabo defeat Doflamingo or Katakuri? I doubt it. Doffy he may tie with.

Just because he is the #2 of the Revs doesnt mean anything, Ace was the #2 of the WB Pirates .

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Ace vs Yamato really doesnt prove anything. If anything it shows Yamato was strong enough to fight off Ace without using her DF power. Ace never showed signs of CoA even when others did. Yamato let's say is YC1 level at the very least, Ace is nowhere near that level.
Pre TS Ace = Post TS Sabo holds no weight. Sabo > Ace does because Sabo actually knows CoA is proficient in using it.
To make extra clear, Sabo DOES NOT have Ryou Haki confirmed. So please stop pretending he does, not until the manga confirms it. Either way having Ryou haki doesnt mean you get to be YC1 level or higher. The Boa sisters and Sentomaru have it but they are not that strong.

Ace was equal to Jimbei but weaker than Jozu and Vista.
Can Sabo defeat Doflamingo or Katakuri? I doubt it. Doffy he may tie with.

Just because he is the #2 of the Revs doesnt mean anything, Ace was the #2 of the WB Pirates .

He literally used the same principle as Ryou
It’s less emphasized than mantra but it’s literally rhe same
The novels are listed as cannon and list ace as a double user of the two haki so I guess he did have it
Ryou works by attacking core , sabo did the same thing just on the largest scale we’ve seen , he has it just that’s he wouldn’t say Ryou cause he’s not from wano and it wasn’t a plot focus from then
I remember telling folks that Yamato had advanced COA and likely advanced COC

 

[I Am Atomic]

Ace never showed signs of CoA even when others did.

You do realise Ace unlocked haki earlier in the journey than Luffy did right? Haki was taught to Luffy, but Ace learned it by himself while fighting a VA in Sabaody arc.

The fact Yamato couldn't defeat Ace and vice versa makes them equal. We don't know if Yamato used her DF or not, because Oda wanted to keep it hidden ofc. Just like we didn't see Kaido using his hybrid against Oden.

No idea where you got the idea Sabo Post TS = Ace Pre TS. Nowhere in the manga indicates that. However, I have used the manga to lay out why my reasoning makes sense.

Ace = Sabo
Ace = Yamato
Yamato = Sabo

Power level wouldn't be exact, but they are in the same tier. Sabo and Ace have more potential too because they reached that strength at a younger age.

Can Sabo defeat Katakuri and Doffy? Doffy definitely. Katakuri idk because I consider Sabo YC1 strength level.

 

[XXGenesis]

Ulti clashed with luffy , ulti is tough
Yamato never really fought sakasaki

I like the character Ulti; & Think her clash with Luffy was kool,
Surviving BM after she just created New Homie chapter before….I didn’t like that, For BM threat lv & the story point,telling afterwards seemed cheap in execution for a win for nami.

A Mod articulately have a good run down on Yamato. Oda gave a lil misdirection with Tobi Roppo assigned to capture her & Yamato tanking but stalled by Sasaki’s Armour squad bomb assault; Kaido’s son & all I didn’t think she was stronger or as strong as Luffy, but she is.

@XXGenesis That's a great rank list, hard to pick arguments against it...
I like the fact that Mingo and Cracker are on the same level... we can debate who is stronger than whom but both sides of the argument definitely adds to the fact that they would be Yonko level 2...

I would put Hawkins lower.. i think his ability depends heavily upon the strawdolls and the tier below them would easily squash him if they dont care of the implications...

Anyways, its a good list..

Thank you. I’m glad you find it to be a reasonable.

I have Mingo & Cracker on Commander 3.

Mingo’s Endurance & DF mastery is ridiculous; but his offense & Haki is weak in comparison to other commanders.

Cracker has good DF power & Haki higher than Mingo’s. Cracker’s endurance however is trash.

I see why you view Hawkins lower, as an officer. I do like the character personally, & just view him a tad notch above those characters because of his DF ability. But I understand.

Well luckily for her she fought Kaido in the manga for 2-3days and stalemated him so her power can't be up for debate lol or else Kaido with his "superior" attack power should've just killed her as he claimed he wanted to right?

Anyway, Kidd didn't outright tank her Ikoku, his entire mecha was wrecked and he was blown away in the explosion. This is a a purposeful misrepresentation, just like the misrepresentation that Zoro "blocked" Hakai lol.
And even if Kidd managed to "tank" her attack, that won't necessarily be a knock on her attack power, it would just be a feat for Kidd. Blocking 1 Yonkou attack doesn't invalidate the Yonkou's power level, it's not as existential as you're making it out to be lol. We literally saw Law "tanking" Kaido's Thunder Bagua on the rooftop before he came downstairs to struggle against BM, and Yamato even fought with him (albeit he was weakened) to a somewhat draw for a while.

The fact that BM is yet to use advanced conqueror's haki or even advanced armament in that fight is telling as well. Kidd and Law "handling" her homie abilities and in your scenario, her Ikoku, doesn't equate to her being lesser than her Yonkou peers in terms of attack power. You're even stating and acknowledging in your own post that she used advanced CoC on P1 lol so clearly there's more to be seen with her in terms of her offensive abilities.

Almost 2022 and we are still trying to gaslight people into thinking Kaido has more attack power than BM and BM somehow has weaker attack stats lol. And before anyone brings up his hybrid form giving him some sort of buff to elevate him, his hybrid has been paralleled and portrayed in tandem with her "Tamashii no Kuni no Nushi-tachi" form. This was even evidenced by the fact that both of them, in their respective forms, equally contributed to Hakai so..

Agreed, Lucky for Big MoM she is 1 of the Yonkou & yes she did fight Kaido. Kaido’s track record is ultimately better. 1 shot on Luffy, Spanking the scabbards Ooo & Spanking Luffy twice on the rooftop, Law & Zoro too……Oda hasn’t shown real consequence of BigMom attacking someone aside from PageOne & Judge.

Kidd, is getting knocked around left and right

I assume Commander 0/1+ are Admiral/borderline admiral tiers?

I agree mostly with your list.

Luffy belongs to admiral tier now IMO. He hasn't reached Yonko level yet. He will likely extreme diff a Kaido who had gone through a massive gauntlet, one of which included Luffy himself (twice), all the while spending energy to fly a freaking island across a country; and is right now exhausted to the point he can barely maintain Onigashima's flight.
While Luffy has regained his health and stamina to an extend after taking a nap + eating months worth of food

I assume Vista's ranking is because of fight with Mihawk? We don't know how serious Mihawk got there, but Mihawk did praise/commend him, and he did fight equally with at least a casual Mihawk.
He's certainly no YC4/5, I don't think WB seriously assigned commander positions based on pure power levels. Still YC1? I don't think so. Maybe YC2

Killer is YC2. He pretty much low diff'd Hawkins, if you take away the hostage situation. As well as tanked hits from BM/Kaido. Managed to get some hits on them as well.


I think you're underestimating the red scabbards.
Each of them are at least YC4 tier. Shutenmaru is portrayed to be above Jack, Cat/Dog were strong enough to give Jack high-extreme diff in their base, their sulong form is definitely YC2 tier at least. Kin'nemon and Kyoshiro should be YC2 tier. Kin'nemon was powerful enough to make Kaido bleed, Kyoushiro was pre Enma Zoro tier, both should be YC2 tier.

Admirals & Yonkou are on the same tier. Yonkou’s maybe higher because of CoC. Admirals seem to have awakening.

Yes Vista gets my respect for clashing with Mihawk & not losing. Commander maybe high true. Doubt Smoothie or Queen can give him a run.

Killer hell no isn’t Commander 2!! Killer vs Doffy; Killer vs Cracker; I wouldn’t vote for Killer; Hawkins himself I wouldn’t vote for against those commanders either.

Shutenmaru harmed Jack, doesn’t mean he was stronger which I seriously doubt he was; Viper Cat & Dogstrom are stronger than him and need Sulong to defeat Jack;

Peros Pero is strong; but he shouldn’t be as strong as Viper cat or Dogstrom, I had a problem with representation. They shouldn’t need Sulong to defeat him….At best I can see his DF being tricky but not overall just stronger than them

Scabbards simply hurt Kaido because they used Ryo. Only 4 of them are commander lv; Kinemon isn’t all that strong, neither is Okiku or even Kanjuro & Kawamatsu are defeating Jack or Cracker.

Cat/Dog/Denjiro/Shutenmaru/Izo literally in that order Range from Commander 3-4.

 

[albertwv]

You do realise Ace unlocked haki earlier in the journey than Luffy did right? Haki was taught to Luffy, but Ace learned it by himself while fighting a VA in Sabaody arc.

The fact Yamato couldn't defeat Ace and vice versa makes them equal. We don't know if Yamato used her DF or not, because Oda wanted to keep it hidden ofc. Just like we didn't see Kaido using his hybrid against Oden.

No idea where you got the idea Sabo Post TS = Ace Pre TS. Nowhere in the manga indicates that. However, I have used the manga to lay out why my reasoning makes sense.

Ace = Sabo
Ace = Yamato
Yamato = Sabo

Power level wouldn't be exact, but they are in the same tier. Sabo and Ace have more potential too because they reached that strength at a younger age.

Can Sabo defeat Katakuri and Doffy? Doffy definitely. Katakuri idk because I consider Sabo YC1 strength level.

We went over it already, Yamato > Ace. Yamato was clearly holding back when fighting Ace. Do you think Ace could damage Kaido or keep up with Kaido like Yamato did?
Do you see Ace beating Doffy or Katakuri like Luffy.
Ace and Sabo are overestimated.
Until Oda confirms that Sabo has Ryou haki, then I will accept it @Lord Traffy Law. You bringing it up constantly with no actual proof reminds me of Moe. The panel you keep bringing up does display something so similar to what Ryou Haki is and maybe you are right but still doesnt mean its proof. Its a theory.

 

[I Am Atomic]

We went over it already, Yamato > Ace. Yamato was clearly holding back when fighting Ace. Do you think Ace could damage Kaido or keep up with Kaido like Yamato did?
Do you see Ace beating Doffy or Katakuri like Luffy.
Ace and Sabo are overestimated.
Until Oda confirms that Sabo has Ryou haki, then I will accept it @Lord Traffy Law. You bringing it up constantly with no actual proof reminds me of Moe. The panel you keep bringing up does display something so similar to what Ryou Haki is and maybe you are right but still doesnt mean its proof. Its a theory.

I see it differently. I will end the discussion at that because I have no points to raise.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Yamato vs Ace was pointless, we didnt see Yamato go all out so Im putting Yamato > Ace. People tend to overhype Ace alot. He was just a rookie who barely knew CoA or CoO, had no control over his CoC. If he were alive he would def be stronger but he was just Y3 level nothing higher. Hard to see him defeating Cracker or Jack.
Sabo is overhyped too because he clashed wit Fuji who was not even serious. Though I would rate Sabo above Ace, because of his Haki mastery and DF. But I would not rate Sabo YC1 or even YC1+. Katakuri would defeat him high diff. Actually I dont even see Sabo defeating Doffy or maybe a tie.

Killer is not YC2 level especially because he defeated Hawkins. Hawkins seems to be pretty weak among his peers outside the strawdoll hostage technique. Killer is best F6/Yonko Executive level close to YC3.
Shutenmaru, Dog and Cat, and maybe Kinemon are the only 9RS that I see among YC3/YC2. Denjiro has not shown us how he fares versus somebody of that level. The 9RS damaging Kaido is overrated, that doesnt necessarily mean they all are YC3+. Denjiro vs Zolo is nothing, both sides were not fully serious.

Enough about King vs Marco, until we see more of King, since we've seen more of Marco versus the Admirals, most readers agree that Marco is above. But let's wait it out and see how King performs.

Ace didn't barley know CoA or CoO, he learned those before joining WB and the novel shows him training his haki. The Ace at MF and Alabsata is not the same Ace that fought Yamato, nor do we know if Yamato had her DF or SS cuffs when she fought Ace.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 3, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 3, 2021 ---

My argument is King wasn't using Hybrid against Marco and Hybrid form is a big power-up.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 2, 2021 ---

I think he's stronger because he didn't use Hybrid against Marco while Marco did. Also he tanked attacks from Enma which is capable of damaging Kaido.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 2, 2021 ---

So was Kaido vs Luffy 1 an outlier or are Kata and Cracker super weak ?

Lol thinking King is stronger because he didn't use Hybrid but you ignore the fact he had Queen as backup? This comparison only makes sense if they fought one on one.

Kaido vs Luffy one isn't an outlier, Kaido shits on King too. Not to mention, Luffy probably couldn't have used Future Sight in that fight because he was enraged.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Ace didn't barley know CoA or CoO, he learned those before joining WB and the novel shows him training his haki. The Ace at MF and Alabsata is not the same Ace that fought Yamato, nor do we know if Yamato had her DF or SS cuffs when she fought Ace.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 3, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 3, 2021 ---

Lol thinking King is stronger because he didn't use Hybrid but you ignore the fact he had Queen as backup? This comparison only makes sense if they fought one on one.

Kaido vs Luffy one isn't an outlier, Kaido shits on King too. Not to mention, Luffy probably couldn't have used Future Sight in that fight because he was enraged.

Yamato had the cuffs on while fighting ace and didn’t use more advanced techniques or her DF

 

[Crimson Ice]

Yamato had the cuffs on while fighting ace and didn’t use more advanced techniques or her DF

Did you read my post...Like I clearly say we don't even know if she had her DF or SS cuffs on back then...We don't even know if she knew her advanced haki then either. This is literally pre WB pirates Ace, their encounter happened well over two years ago.

 

[albertwv]

Ace didn't barley know CoA or CoO, he learned those before joining WB and the novel shows him training his haki. The Ace at MF and Alabsata is not the same Ace that fought Yamato, nor do we know if Yamato had her DF or SS cuffs when she fought Ace.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 3, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 3, 2021 ---

Okay I forgot about the Ace novel I was going of by what I saw in the manga. Yamato had the cuffs on and she was not going serious towards Ace, because she didnt really care about protecting Kaidos castle. To me Yamato is clearly superior to Ace even now seeing how she actually has ACoA/CoC. Able to damage Kaido and last longer than anyone but Luffy and BM fighting Kaido. I dont see Ace doing anything to Kaido. WB was a different person compared to Kaido. If anything WB's durability is weaker than Kaido's so dont even think about mentioning Ace damaged WB with his fire and haki.

This chapter 999 https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-999.html
shows Yamato vs Ace
I want to say Yamato had her DF since she was a kid, she claimed she ate it because she was hungry: https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1019.html
We know Kaido imprisoned Yamato in a cave to starve so maybe she stole the fruit as a kid somehow.

 

[grey matter]

Admirals & Yonkou are on the same tier. Yonkou’s maybe higher because of CoC. Admirals seem to have awakening.

Yes Vista gets my respect for clashing with Mihawk & not losing. Commander maybe high true. Doubt Smoothie or Queen can give him a run.

Killer hell no isn’t Commander 2!! Killer vs Doffy; Killer vs Cracker; I wouldn’t vote for Killer; Hawkins himself I wouldn’t vote for against those commanders either.

Shutenmaru harmed Jack, doesn’t mean he was stronger which I seriously doubt he was; Viper Cat & Dogstrom are stronger than him and need Sulong to defeat Jack;

Peros Pero is strong; but he shouldn’t be as strong as Viper cat or Dogstrom, I had a problem with representation. They shouldn’t need Sulong to defeat him….At best I can see his DF being tricky but not overall just stronger than them

Scabbards simply hurt Kaido because they used Ryo. Only 4 of them are commander lv; Kinemon isn’t all that strong, neither is Okiku or even Kanjuro & Kawamatsu are defeating Jack or Cracker.

Cat/Dog/Denjiro/Shutenmaru/Izo literally in that order Range from Commander 3-4.

Ehh, I think Yonkou are a tier above Admirals, in the same way Admirals are a tier above YC1s

If Mihawk is casual, then I don't see why Queen or Smoothie may not keep up. Still, maybe against Mihawk, combat speed is more important than brute strength, so it could be that.
I think we've seen enough from him to put him at YC2 however, but not YC1

Why wouldn't killer beat Doffy now? He has grown too. Back then, Doffy convincingly beat Law, current Law would convincingly beat Doffy.
Still, Doflamingo is a reasonable counter to people like "regular people" like Zoro, Killer etc. Luffy has the brute strength to break free from his strings, because he can expand his body; for normal humans, they're stuck once they are tied up. So, Doflamingo probably beats Killer. Still, that doesn't mean Killer isn't same tier.
Killer 100% would beat Cracker, I have no doubt about it

In Shutenmaru vs Jack fight, Shutenmaru had the advantage. They were close, but with Shutenmaru having the edge. He's YC3 tier
Dog and Cat are Jack tier in their base, and well above Jack with Sulong. Sulong form is YC2 tier.

Why shouldn't Peros Pero be as strong? He had great showings in WCI arc. And the Cat was injured to begin with, before fighting him

Some weakass with ryo isn't hurting Kaido. You need to be strong along with haki to hurt him. Kin'nemon should be strong, he's the leader.
At the very least, the lower ends of scabbards (Raizo/Kiku/Kanjuro) are upper tobiroppo tier. And the higher ends (Dog/Cat/Kyoshiro/Shutenmaru/Kin'nemon), they range from YC2-3 tier

 

[LadyVados]

Lol thinking King is stronger because he didn't use Hybrid but you ignore the fact he had Queen as backup? This comparison only makes sense if they fought one on one.

He fought Marco 1 on 1 for a prolonged period of time while Queen was on the live floor, fighting Chopper and later Sanji.

Hybrid form probably triples your strength. If King was fighting evenly with Marco with a third of his full power that is strong evidence that he's above Marco.

Spoiler: Leaks

Not to mention if King destroys Zoro and breaks Sandai that would be a crazy feat. Imagine if he overpowers Asura.