Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[Pirate Queen]

How? What reason why he still be active and moving? Did you not read about situation? He can't afford him still conscious no matter what.

1. He still harass people in the area if he was around and Sanji is not the type to abandoned others after seeing them suffer from good side

2. Page One will go on a rampage looking from him and thus he be coming close to near their area if he didn't defeat him. Its not that far off.

3. He also informed who to look for to Drake and Hawkins on Sanji's identity too.

4. They Law and Sanji said in context it's best to dwindled their forces before he come back. I don't see him leaving a fight after saying that.

Nothing said Sanji left the fight and left him active as if he did, these events happened out if it. Sanji accomplished all he said out by not being hurt, hide identity, and defeating him. So its very much implied he defeated him as no reason why Page is still around. You got look at context more.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 23, 2019 ---

Oda off-paneled a lot of stuff at times. He off-paneled stuff at Reverie while Wano goes on. We can't always use the excuse that "It's off-paneled, so obvious didn't happen or still something else" cause it won't be like that. He said in context of Sanji's and Law's talk. No reason Page One would be active and Sanji to break the promise.

It's not a matter of Sanji breaking a promise tho. If for some reason he couldnt down P1 in the short time limit he was given then at least he tried his best.

All I'm saying is that a lack of an actual panel leaves the door open for sceptics, which is entirely understandable given the climate of Sanji v Zoro fans

Don't tell me you didnt expect Sanji doubters to capitalize on this chapter? Lol come on, we both know Sanji could draw blood from Kaido himself and they's still find a reason to doubt.

I know its implied Sanji won, I said that in my post.





My issue with Sanji even engaging with P1 is because we know 2 things,

1. The festival is over a week away
2. We know Zoans heal quickly

So unless Sanji killed P1 (seriously doubt), we can expect P1 to be present at the Fire Festival and there numbers wouldn't have dwindled at all... Which was the basis for Sanji to engage him.

 

[King Moe]

It's not a matter of Sanji breaking a promise tho. If for some reason he couldnt down P1 in the short time limit he was given then at least he tried his best.

All I'm saying is that a lack of an actual panel leaves the door open for sceptics, which is entirely understandable given the climate of Sanji v Zoro fans

Don't tell me you didnt expect Sanji doubters to capitalize on this chapter? Lol come on, we both know Sanji could draw blood from Kaido himself and they's still find a reason to doubt.

I know its implied Sanji won, I said that in my post.





My issue with Sanji even engaging with P1 is because we know 2 things,

1. The festival is over a week away
2. We know Zoans heal quickly

So unless Sanji killed P1 (seriously doubt), we can expect P1 to be present at the Fire Festival and there numbers wouldn't have dwindled at all... Which was the basis for Sanji to engage him.

I did expect it and prepare to defend and pit it out there. Their fault if they want to believe the other side when its clear Sanji bested him and knock him out. We probably get chapter of Drake and Hawkins finding his damage body in next chapter or so. So that can also happen.

No reason to tried or retreat from the fight. Sanji always keep his promise on something when once he does in the end. Highly doubt Page would return as we can say the say thing about characters who were defeated in WCI arc, but didn't return later like. Cracker for one never return after Luffy beat him, so Idk about that.


Main point is doubt Oda go to that trouble enforce what Law and Sanji said if Page One wasn't going to go down in the end.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

I said it quite a few times before, but i would be happy if Sanji would defeat Page1, so he has finally a good feat to speak for himself in the New World. but as of right now, i wouldnt celebrate to early just to be eventually disappointed later. Nik87 will love it to rub it in your face if the fight wasn concluded at all, i tell you. So just dont see it as a given yet, more like an possible eventually. (I personally think Page1 is down to 90%, but hey... you never know.)

 

[Pirate Queen]

I did expect it and prepare to defend and pit it out there. Their fault if they want to believe the other side when its clear Sanji bested him and knock him out. We probably get chapter of Drake and Hawkins finding his damage body in next chapter or so. So that can also happen.

No reason to tried or retreat from the fight. Sanji always keep his promise on something when once he does in the end. Highly doubt Page would return as we can say the say thing about characters who were defeated in WCI arc, but didn't return later like. Cracker for one never return after Luffy beat him, so Idk about that.


Main point is doubt Oda go to that trouble enforce what Law and Sanji said if Page One wasn't going to go down in the end.

But Whole Cake Osland happened over the span of a few days and one can argue Cracker doesnt have the healing factors that zoans naturally possess. Its believable that Cracker didnt return from the fight so suddenly.

Giving P1 over a week to recover seems like more than enough time to allow him to return just in time for the Firw Festival.

I understand what you mean, it's clear Sanji was trying to lower Kaido's forces, but from a readers perspective (knowing what we know about the recover time of Zoans, let alone ANCIENT Zoans) it just seems like there is to big of a gap between P1 staying down and when he is actually needed to go down

And I say the recover time of zoans but that's not including being healed by the doctor that Kaido is sure to have on his crew.

Realistically, P1 could be fully healed by the time the Fire Festival comes around

 

[King Moe]

But Whole Cake Osland happened over the span of a few days and one can argue Cracker doesnt have the healing factors that zoans naturally possess. Its believable that Cracker didnt return from the fight so suddenly.

Giving P1 over a week to recover seems like more than enough time to allow him to return just in time for the Firw Festival.

I understand what you mean, it's clear Sanji was trying to lower Kaido's forces, but from a readers perspective (knowing what we know about the recover time of Zoans, let alone ANCIENT Zoans) it just seems like there is to big of a gap between P1 staying down and when he is actually needed to go down

And I say the recover time of zoans but that's not including being healed by the doctor that Kaido is sure to have on his crew.

Realistically, P1 could be fully healed by the time the Fire Festival comes around

Still is a YC, so he should have come back still. We seen Luffy and others heal their injuries and fight next day or so and they don't have Zoan in them. If Cracker couldn't return while being a YC in few days, Idk Page One will make appearance back especially if crew is that forgiving and won't kill him for his failure. It's looking more those chances than him getting second chance.

Readers are saying that he is defeated and won't comeback more than coming back again. That what I seen lately as Idk where others said he has chance to come back as its on the unlikely side more.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 23, 2019 ---

I said it quite a few times before, but i would be happy if Sanji would defeat Page1, so he has finally a good feat to speak for himself in the New World. but as of right now, i wouldnt celebrate to early just to be eventually disappointed later. Nik87 will love it to rub it in your face if the fight wasn concluded at all, i tell you. So just dont see it as a given yet, more like an possible eventually. (I personally think Page1 is down to 90%, but hey... you never know.)

Already said in my posts on reasons if he wasn't down. Those events would happen if he wasn't. So far there is no commotion and Sanji meet the requirements, so I don't see reason of Oda have him active after he will attack others and continue to cause damage, not to mention give away Sanji and others location after seeing them. So pretty sure its heavily implied he is out-cold right now.

 

[Pirate Queen]

holy fuck that last paragraph was a garbled mess, moe-kun lol

I think your trying to say not many people are saying P1 will be back?

I agree, I'm not sure if you realize I'm on your side here lol. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be shocked if we see P1 participating in this coming war we are going to have.

 

[King Moe]

holy fuck that last paragraph was a garbled mess, moe-kun lol

I think your trying to say not many people are saying P1 will be back?

I agree, I'm not sure if you realize I'm on your side here lol. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be shocked if we see P1 participating in this coming war we are going to have.

How? Its simple to understand to anyone. What you talking about?

There is a chance maybe he might be back, but again Cracker, an YC never return after days of resting, so Idk Page will be lucky as he was in more pain than him with each kick Sanji hit him with looking at his screaming. Plus also factor on how crew is and could kill him if he failed the mission, so its looking more unlikely he won't be back more.

I know you are on my side. That why I am telling you my side friendly than with Nik87. Can't you tell xD?

 

[Takuan]

I'm actually so disappointed about this off panel. Like, imo Sanji defeated Page One, and doing so without taking an injury is pretty impressive. But the fact that this was off paneled, leaves place for scepticism. Why can't Oda show us a full fight, Sanji against a strong opponent, and make Sanji the winner? Instead of leaving the fight unfinished or off-paneled?

So i'm hoping for a Page One return, like lexus said. As a Zoan his regeneration should make it possible. I want a Sanji vs Page One rematch (if Sanji indeed defeated him there), and i want to see the full fight. Maybe Page One massively underestimated Sanji or was caught unaware, hence Sanji low diffed, and the next fight will actually be a harder one for Sanji? In any case, i don't want to see Page One ended like that and never to return. And i want some fucking Sanji ON PANEL feats, so that we're not left with nothing but asumptions.

 

[King Moe]

I'm actually so disappointed about this off panel. Like, imo Sanji defeated Page One, and doing so without taking an injury is pretty impressive. But the fact that this was off paneled, leaves place for scepticism. Why can't Oda show us a full fight, Sanji against a strong opponent, and make Sanji the winner? Instead of leaving the fight unfinished or off-paneled?

So i'm hoping for a Page One return, like lexus said. As a Zoan his regeneration should make it possible. I want a Sanji vs Page One rematch (if Sanji indeed defeated him there), and i want to see the full fight. Maybe Page One massively underestimated Sanji or was caught unaware, hence Sanji low diffed, and the next fight will actually be a harder one for Sanji? In any case, i don't want to see Page One ended like that and never to return. And i want some fucking Sanji ON PANEL feats, so that we're not left with nothing but asumptions.

Looking unlikely to happen especially Drake and Hawkins coming to his side. I won't be surprised it turns out they see Page One's damage body and knockout. See no reason he be active or comeback later especially crew look like the type to kill off members. Doesn't take away Page One, but don't every character in bad side to have their whole dues as much each time. He did enough to sentiment himself.

Oda does off-screened a lot of times. Just because they are doesn't the feats are not there. He does this with other characters in the series. Not the first or last we see it. Don't feel so bad about it as it's all good

Sanji's finally opponent will probably be King or Queen in the end at the festival.

 

[Takuan]

Looking unlikely to happen especially Drake and Hawkins coming to his side. I won't be surprised it turns out they see Page One's damage body and knockout. See no reason he be active or comeback later especially crew look like the type to kill off members. Doesn't take away Page One, but don't every character in bad side to have their whole dues as much each time. He did enough to sentiment himself.

Oda does off-screened a lot of times. Just because they are doesn't the feats are not there. He does this with other characters in the series. Not the first or last we see it. Don't feel so bad about it as it's all good

Annie's finally opponent will probably be King or Queen in the end at the festival.

In that case i want Sanji to defeat, on screen, an opponent of P1 level or slightly above. Like Drake, i'd be happy to see Sanji defeat him.
I disagree, off-panel feats are irrelevant. Especially since we don't even know if P1 was actually defeated or not. If we see P1 unconscious with blood everywhere and when he gets up he's like "damn that Soba owner guy fucked me up real good" then alright. As of now, we just have no idea what happened, i can't consider that feats at all.

Personally i don't think Sanji is Yonko Commander level yet. That's why i really wanted to see the full extent of what Raid Suit Sanji can do.

 

[King Moe]

In that case i want Sanji to defeat, on screen, an opponent of P1 level or slightly above. Like Drake, i'd be happy to see Sanji defeat him.
I disagree, off-panel feats are irrelevant. Especially since we don't even know if P1 was actually defeated or not. If we see P1 unconscious with blood everywhere and when he gets up he's like "damn that Soba owner guy fucked me up real good" then alright. As of now, we just have no idea what happened, i can't consider that feats at all.

Personally i don't think Sanji is Yonko Commander level yet. That's why i really wanted to see the full extent of what Raid Suit Sanji can do.

Possible for Sanji vs Drake after he defeated his fellow Top 6 member. I would enjoy seeing that. Could be his next fight within 9 days, but not his final fight.

Well deal with it as there been a lot like Blackbeard has more off-screened feats of killing Thatch, defeating Ace, hurting Shanks, taking over Revolutionary Base with his crew, etc.. By that logic those don't matter since we never seen on-screen. In OP, doesn't matter if on-screen or off-screen as feats are feats regardless. Why you think BB and his crew getting more hype in the fan base?

Doubt Sanji will kill him. No Strawhat kill people. Where you getting at? Possible to have him get bruises and bleeding in certain places though.

In Oda's writing, you have to learn to accept it as he does this time to time. Doesn't mean it's less hype or take away anything on what characters did. Just saying to you.

He is after how easily he damage PO and defeat him. Only YC can give him trouble now.

 

[Takuan]

Possible for Sanji vs Drake after he defeated his fellow Top 6 member. I would enjoy seeing that. Could be his next fight within 9 days, but not his final fight.

Well deal with it as there been a lot like Blackbeard has more off-screened feats of killing Thatch, defeating Ace, hurting Shanks, taking over Revolutionary Base with his crew, etc.. By that logic those don't matter since we never seen on-screen. In OP, doesn't matter if on-screen or off-screen as feats are feats regardless. Why you think BB and his crew getting more hype in the fan base?

Doubt Sanji will kill him. No Strawhat kill people. Where you getting at? Possible to have him get bruises and bleeding in certain places though.

In Oda's writing, you have to learn to accept it as he does this time to time. Doesn't mean it's less hype or take away anything on what characters did. Just saying to you.

He is after how easily he damage PO and defeat him. Only YC can give him trouble now.

Yeah, Sanji vs Drake would be dope, i'd love to see that.

Blackbeard has feats though, just his Marineford feats alone he got Whitebeard's DF, that's already insane. All the feats you're giving are proven, he beat Ace and despite being off panel, that's a given. Here we don't even know if Sanji indeed beat Page One or if he only escaped.
Off panel hype is misleading. BB and his crew get hype that's right, but how can be judge their individual strength? I'd wager that in the Payback War, Blackbeard was the key factor. We don't know exactly what happened so how can we judge anything. When he appeared in Dressrosa Burgess was underwhelming to say the least, not what you'd expect from the right hand of a Yonko.

I know Sanji won't kill, i never said something like this. Where are you getting at? I'm onyl saying that if we don't know anything about how Sanji vs P1 turned out (not even the real result of the fight) then we can't just base ourselves on that.

I know it happens from time to time, and when it does happen, i don't take that into account for power level.
Again dude, BB defeated Ace, this has been stated, we know that. Did Sanji defeat Page One? We don't know, Sanji didn't even commentate on that. It's probably, i think it's what happened, but we don't know until we have a statement, P1 being shown injured, or something like that. Hence why i said, it leaves the door open to asumptions and scepticism and i don't like that.

Only YC can give him trouble?
You think Sanji would low diff Drake for instance?

I think overall our opinion aren't too far apart, but you're chosing to believe Sanji defeated Page One without an injury. Which is probable, but things might have happened differently, and i'm disappointed that it is the case.

 

[King Moe]

Yeah, Sanji vs Drake would be dope, i'd love to see that.

Blackbeard has feats though, just his Marineford feats alone he got Whitebeard's DF, that's already insane. All the feats you're giving are proven, he beat Ace and despite being off panel, that's a given. Here we don't even know if Sanji indeed beat Page One or if he only escaped.
Off panel hype is misleading. BB and his crew get hype that's right, but how can be judge their individual strength? I'd wager that in the Payback War, Blackbeard was the key factor. We don't know exactly what happened so how can we judge anything. When he appeared in Dressrosa Burgess was underwhelming to say the least, not what you'd expect from the right hand of a Yonko.

I know Sanji won't kill, i never said something like this. Where are you getting at? I'm onyl saying that if we don't know anything about how Sanji vs P1 turned out (not even the real result of the fight) then we can't just base ourselves on that.

I know it happens from time to time, and when it does happen, i don't take that into account for power level.
Again dude, BB defeated Ace, this has been stated, we know that. Did Sanji defeat Page One? We don't know, Sanji didn't even commentate on that. It's probably, i think it's what happened, but we don't know until we have a statement, P1 being shown injured, or something like that. Hence why i said, it leaves the door open to asumptions and scepticism and i don't like that.

Only YC can give him trouble?
You think Sanji would low diff Drake for instance?

I think overall our opinion aren't too far apart, but you're chosing to believe Sanji defeated Page One without an injury. Which is probable, but things might have happened differently, and i'm disappointed that it is the case.

Off-screen though. We don't know how he got it out of him, as they put a cloth over him. Still a lot of his actions are off-screen and yet he still hype up. Again, feats are feats no matter on-screen or off-screen. Sanji defeated PO as no reason as I mention in past posts on why Page One would be active and why Sanji break promise. That's not his character no the context make sense to let him go. The off-screen was done to showcase what Sanji can do more later on as Oda wants to keep it surprise. Not the first time he done this before.

Well Sabo is Admiral+, so Burgress wouldn't have last long in the fight against them and make sense. Not like he was beaten down by some low-level fighter or such. Plus it's not the last of him since Oda probably bring him back stronger than last time as just because he is defeated by that character, doesn't many anyone could best him at all.

You said that in your last post. Seem like you want him be brutalize to the point of death which won't happen. Sorry if I misunderstood what you said there. Again he is defeated, nothing to even think about on 'what if' he still survives or about as I mention in past posts that IF (emphasizing) he was active, there be sounds of bashing and screaming from the direction Sanji came from and probably Page One after him. So far from this chapter, we see nothing or even hint of that. So the argument to say he did nothing to Page One is stretching it by far.

Yes, but been off-screen still regardless as we don't know how he defeated him, same with Page One while we didn't see it, looking at Sanji, it's proven he did the deed and Page One is out. If you want proof, Oda could come back to the scene with Drake and Hawkins, but even so it doesn't need to be said to know someone is down when past chapters said it. We didn't found out about Ace on the fight until later on where it's stated he was bested. So probably same with Page One as Oda will either physically or through words Page One is out. Those who believe that are stretching it and just want to do that like Nik87 does. Though, don't let them cloud on how Oda's writes things as we both know looking at Sanji is proof enough all went well and nothing has hinted on Page One even being remotely active at all.

Nah, Drake might be mid-diff+, but Sanji would best him with the potential he has on him so far.

Idk about that as again, you seem to be ignoring the context while merely only looking pictures alone. I respect how you feel, but don't think Oda would do that after he heavily insert Law and Sanji how serious it is only for Page One to be just fine. That make no sense for the context on what they dealing with.

 

[nik87]

Still a lot of his actions are off-screen and yet he still hype up

We have a lot of known feats about Blackbeard so I dont know why are you saying that his hype is based on off-screen, unknown stuff...

Without DF he was able to give a scar to a Yonko who wasnt careless.
With a simple hit he almost broke Ace's neck and Ace was commander of 2nd division.
He withstood all attacks Ace has thrown at him.
He can withstand high amounts of damage.
His devil fruit is the most powerful logia with the ability to neutralize the effect of other DF users.
He has taken a blow to the head from Whitebeards ability.
He has taken a slash from Whitebeards bisento.
He has tanked Sengoku's shockwave.
He has pushed Senkgoku back with Gura Gura no Mi's ability.
He posses 2 devil fruits, the ultimate offense and the ultimate defense and is the only person who ever ate 2 devil fruits.

Looks plenty of feats to me, his hype should be even bigger than it is. We have proof of things which put him at the top tier, known things.

 

[King Moe]

We have a lot of known feats about Blackbeard so I dont know why are you saying that his hype is based on off-screen, unknown stuff...

Without DF he was able to give a scar to a Yonko who wasnt careless.
With a simple hit he almost broke Ace's neck and Ace was commander of 2nd division.
He withstood all attacks Ace has thrown at him.
He can withstand high amounts of damage.
His devil fruit is the most powerful logia with the ability to neutralize the effect of other DF users.
He has taken a blow to the head from Whitebeards ability.
He has taken a slash from Whitebeards bisento.
He has tanked Sengoku's shockwave.
He has pushed Senkgoku back with Gura Gura no Mi's ability.
He posses 2 devil fruits, the ultimate offense and the ultimate defense and is the only person who ever ate 2 devil fruits.

Looks plenty of feats to me, his hype should be even bigger than it is. We have proof of things which put him at the top tier, known things.

Also him crying for mercy for Whitebeard. Plus don't count him beating or withstanding him as a feat as he came late in the game and quickly beg for mercy the moment he got hurt. As well his crew shot him together after he exhausted himself in the War. I don't really count that as too much going on. Also War stuff in general as its easy to look good after in a damage environment and going after exhausted fighters from war.

As for Ace, majority of fight was off-screen though. We don't know exactly how he KO him, but he did.

Though he most defining moments are still off-screen than on-screen. So prove my point doesn't on-screen or off-screen. They are still feats and Oda asserted it still.

 

[nik87]

Also him crying for mercy for Whitebeard. Plus don't count him beating or withstanding him as a feat as he came late in the game and quickly beg for mercy the moment he got hurt. As well his crew shot him together after he exhausted himself in the War. I don't really count that as too much going on. Also War stuff in general as its easy to look good after in a damage environment and going after exhausted fighters from war.

Are you denying the feats I listed or is there another reason why you are disagreeing here? What does crying for mercy have to do with any of his feats?

As for Ace, majority of fight was off-screen though. We don't know exactly how he KO him, but he did.

We didnt precisely see the result of the clash of their final attacks but Ace already came exhausted into that attack so it's implied that it was the last one and BB came out on top. Blackbeard already messed him up severely before their final attack. For me, that entire fight is on panel, except the result of their final attack.

Though he most defining moments are still off-screen than on-screen.

Which feats are off-screen?

 

[King Moe]

Are you denying the feats I listed or is there another reason why you are disagreeing here? What does crying for mercy have to do with any of his feats?


We didnt precisely see the result of the clash of their final attacks but Ace already came exhausted into that attack so it's implied that it was the last one and BB came out on top. Blackbeard already messed him up severely before their final attack. For me, that entire fight is on panel, except the result of their final attack.

Which feats are off-screen?

Attacking someone who was in a full-scale war and use a lot of energy and you come in to defeat them out? More like Assist Kill/Steal Kill from MMO shooting games from how it look from it. His feats are unearned as he needed help and didn't even kill Whitebeard on his own when his crew help him. Without them, he would have die from Whitebeard as they save him.

Still you argue with me on off-screen stuff and thus since we never saw how, we can't really judge how it would be and it never said that last attack of his was the one to knock him out. For all we know, he could have got help from his crew since they were still in the area on defeating him together instead of by himself. We didn't find out any of this until Impel Down Arc on what happened between them, but even then it's unknown how tough the fight is. I am just using your own words here on how you see off-screen fights. Either you choose which side as your confusing us on where you going about the direction of off-screen stuff.

Killing Thatch, defeating Ace, getting Whitebeard's fruit, gaining territory in 2 years, hurting Shanks, taking Dragon's territory, etc.. A lot of things he did majorly were off-screen and people are hype mainly by those stuff despite we never seen them. To me, I see them as feats even off-screen, so saying it's 'featless' because we never seen them is petty as Oda does this with many characters. I am just saying from my end is all.

 

[nik87]

Attacking someone who was in a full-scale war and use a lot of energy and you come in to defeat them out? More like Assist Kill/Steal Kill from MMO shooting games from how it look from it. His feats are unearned as he needed help and didn't even kill Whitebeard on his own when his crew help him. Without them, he would have die from Whitebeard as they save him.

You are still denying his feats. He took a DF attack to his head from WB, the same WB who a few seconds ago was wrecking Akainu.
You are denying that he took a shockwave from fresh Sengoku and has pushed the same fresh Sengoku back.
Why are you denying those?

Still you argue with me on off-screen stuff and thus since we never saw how, we can't really judge how it would be and it never said that last attack of his was the one to knock him out. For all we know, he could have got help from his crew since they were still in the area on defeating him together instead of by himself. We didn't find out any of this until Impel Down Arc on what happened between them, but even then it's unknown how tough the fight is. I am just using your own words here on how you see off-screen fights. Either you choose which side as your confusing us on where you going about the direction of off-screen stuff.

I wont argue the result of what seemed as their final attack as it clearly is off-panel, however, a lot of their fight is shown and known. Feats have been seen on both sides. Blackbeard and Ace both went into their final attack clearly hurt and damaged. Was P1 or Sanji damaged or hurt when we last saw them? No, none of them had any visible injuries. You need to understand the difference in those fights.

Killing Thatch, defeating Ace, getting Whitebeard's fruit, gaining territory in 2 years, hurting Shanks, taking Dragon's territory, etc.. A lot of things he did majorly were off-screen and people are hype mainly by those stuff despite we never seen them. To me, I see them as feats even off-screen, so saying it's 'featless' because we never seen them is petty as Oda does this with many characters. I am just saying from my end is all.

Killing Thatch was obviously a cheap shot, nothing to prove there.
Defeating Ace, go re-read their fight, I just did and Ace was almost beaten when he went into that final attack.
Getting WB's fruit is not a combat feat that we need to know. It's an ability he needs time for and needs protection for.
Gaining territory is not a combat feat, especially territory he knows in and out.
Hurting Shanks we know that Shanks wasnt careless but rather underestimated BB.
Taking Dragons territory is not a combat feat.

I see you are listing lots of irrelevant things which have nothing to do with combat, I dont know why. We have lots of combat feats about BB from fight with Ace and from MF war which put him in top tier.
On the other hand, you are advocating Sanji as opponent for Queen... Based on what feats?

 

[King Moe]

You are still denying his feats. He took a DF attack to his head from WB, the same WB who a few seconds ago was wrecking Akainu.
You are denying that he took a shockwave from fresh Sengoku and has pushed the same fresh Sengoku back.
Why are you denying those?

I wont argue the result of what seemed as their final attack as it clearly is off-panel, however, a lot of their fight is shown and known. Feats have been seen on both sides. Blackbeard and Ace both went into their final attack clearly hurt and damaged. Was P1 or Sanji damaged or hurt when we last saw them? No, none of them had any visible injuries. You need to understand the difference in those fights.

Killing Thatch was obviously a cheap shot, nothing to prove there.
Defeating Ace, go re-read their fight, I just did and Ace was almost beaten when he went into that final attack.
Getting WB's fruit is not a combat feat that we need to know. It's an ability he needs time for and needs protection for.
Gaining territory is not a combat feat, especially territory he knows in and out.
Hurting Shanks we know that Shanks wasnt careless but rather underestimated BB.
Taking Dragons territory is not a combat feat.

I see you are listing lots of irrelevant things which have nothing to do with combat, I dont know why. We have lots of combat feats about BB from fight with Ace and from MF war which put him in top tier.
On the other hand, you are advocating Sanji as opponent for Queen... Based on what feats?

Crew helped against Whitebeard who already was tired and hurt from war, not a feat at all, so not counting it. In one on one fight when they are fresh, then we can talk. Idk Sengoku use his form and fought early so possible for him to be tired or not 100% with that attack. So it's a depending for the Sengoku especially they didn't fight fully in the end.

The results weren't shown until later in Impel Down at the start when Luffy was told what happened to Ace and everyone know he lost then. It was unclear for awhile until later on as well showing physical of Ace in jail and damage presumably from the fight. Page One is screaming in pain with each kick hitting him hard. As for evidence if Page One is down, if you want to play on seeing it, we can wait next chapter or later in the arc as Drake and Hawkins are coming to his position, so they probably see what happened to him. Though so far from my side as I proven, if he was still 'active' he would have been chasing Sanji and looking for him while causing havoc and attacking everyone. We would get hint of the commotion nearby as he wouldn't be that far off and plus Sanji isn't the type to leave innocent people to suffer. So far all evidence is pointing to Sanji finishing him off then Page One still around and active. If we going same pattern as Blackbeard vs Ace, then we bound to see physical or verbal about what happened to Page One being defeated. Just saying to you in the end.

We don't know cheap shot as it could be a drawn out fight. Again it was off-screen in the end.

Nah, like you said if it was off-screen, we not counting that as the final blow as anything could happen especially his crew could have help him finishing him off as Burgess mention how proudly Ace said to them after defeated, so it could hint it was team up then just BB with the final hit. They did attack him together at the start, so possibly attack him together in the end just like they did with Whitebeard. You never know, so until more evidence like you said, how he beat him is up there and maybe not a feat.

Not a feat on him getting it or using it since we know how him and his crew defeated Whitebeard and they cover up how he did it. You never know as who to stay he and his crew didn't force themselves in fighting others as I would presume they did as we can't say if they fought anyone or not.

How you know? Shanks didn't detail the fight nor was it shown as for all we know, he could have wait full power and Blackbeard still got the best of him. Could be more to it then meets the eye (no-pun intended) as seeing how powerful Shanks Haki all around, it's surprising he got hurt at all. One time he let himself be hurt is through Luffy while in water, but for someone like Blackbeard whether weak or not, Shanks wouldn't be that careless on letting someone hurt him that much.

Dragon is the "Most Wanted In The World" and Revolutionaries are no joke either....Are you serious? Don't even try to discard that as a feat as for them to be to force out from their home, says something about BB and his power more nowadays.

What on-screen stuff? BB and Ace does nothing to compare to other big leagues and majorly of his feats are off-screen still.

Because Sanji has history for one with Okamas. It's not farfetched and plus it been stated on reasons why they would face as well reasons him taking on King as well. You seen Youtube, Reddit, and other websites on discussion on either one give hints he could face them.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

I'm somewhat disappointed about the lack of decent fighting scenes featuring Sanji, but I trust Oda that he does such things with good intentions in mind. Like saving cool moves for later.

I hope that Oda shows us clearly how the fight ended in the next chapter. Via a flashback preferably. Even though I'm 99% positive it was a definite undeniable win for Sanji.

Now all I'm hoping for is black armament haki... I know I've said this before but I just can't bare the thought that Sanji ain't got no black armament...