@Bold that's actually not true mate:
The term "monster trio" was used canonically in the manga by Nami before any fan started using the term. Oda came up with this term and time and time again he's portrayed Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji as the big three in the SH crew. Luffy, Zoro, and Nami have never been given the name "the trio" in the manga and I don't even think that's a common term for those three in the fanbase. I also just wanna point out that technically Usopp and Sanji officially joined the crew before Nami (just a slight nitpick on my part tho lol).
As far as I know, no official translation has the term monster trio. Nami refers to them as "Monsters", well, simply because they are all inhuman in terms of strenght, which she isn't. That was way before Robin, Franky and Brook joined. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji were the only capable fighters at that point. However, while all three are undeniably strong, Sanji is far behind on almost any instance minus the Water 7 arc.
In his own introduction arc Zoro gained the respect of what was, at that time, the strongest character introduced yet (Mihawk), whereas Sanji was bullied by the arc villains.
In Arlong Park, Arlong specifically mentions how dangerous Zoro would be if it weren't for his grievious injuries. He didn't include Sanji in his thought, even though Sanji just defeated his officer
underwater
In Drum, Zoro fought of the harsh cold like nothing, whereas Sanji becomes a victim of the environment.
Mr 1 is just vastly superior to Mr. 2. Mr 1 is the only BW agent that gained Crocodile's respect as shown later.
For the majority of Skypea, Sanji is roasted eggplant.
In the Davy Back fight, Sanji is...the ball.
In Thriller Bark, Zoro himself shows he doesn't believe in Sanji having the slightest chance against Kuma. Seing how Zoro, whose special feat his his incredible tolerance of blood loss, looked like after facing Kuma, we can believe that his judgement about Sanji is correct.
I don't think comparing Sanji to the supernova is useless at all.
@afromarco005 def had the right idea to bring up this topic imo, although I can see why it would be a little challenging considering a lot of them are featless in the New World. If Oda wanted to make it clear that all the supernova are well beyond Sanji's level then he wouldn't have given him a 330 million beri bounty (a bounty that's higher than more than half of the supernova's bounties rn).
Sanji got his bounty increase because he is believed to have brokered Luffy's alliance with the Vinsmokes. Which doesn't even exist but it is all Morgans fault for writing that semi-fake hype article. Only Luffy and Sanji got increases, whereas Bege (the actual mind behind the plan) and Jinbe (sent Big Mom flying) didn't get anything.
Problem is, Oda made it so that Sanji was underestimated and not as known, despite his strength. Sanji is more of a sneaky and crafty character, he isn't pure physical like Luffy and Zoro. Didn't Sanji get Crocodile off the crew's back for a while by pretending to be Mr. 3? He wasn't up there fighting with the other Straw Hats, he planned ahead by rigging the doors to Enies Lobby to close so the crew could escape.
I am not denying Sanji's qualities as a character. In fact, when this thread started, I was the one defending him. Sanji is a great character, smart, gentle, educated and he is quite strong too. Unfortunately, this thread became "Make your own Sanji" and people now want Sanji to be like secondary main character that can defeat anyone and is primarily acknowledged for his strenght. Which Sanji never was. His crew number is #5.
And Monster Trio is a manga term, which Oda has constantly established since Alabasta, when the trio knocked out a huge sand monster and were praised by Nami as the monster trio, I believe. He also constantly reinforced that, especially in Fishman Island. Nami is not part of the trio, she's actually part of the Crybaby or Weak trio with Usopp and Chopper.
I was talkin about a storytelling design point, in which Luffy, Zoro and Nami make up a classical Shonen hero trio.
Otherwise, see my response to Charging Lightning.
Now that Jinbe is officially part of the crew, the term Monster Trio just isn't defendable anymore anyways. Unless someone believes Sanji can send Big Mom flying even though we saw that he can't, Sanji even did make an exception to his "hit no women" rule for Big Mom.
IMHO the most accurate measuring of the monster trio strength was the douriki of their CP9 opponents, and reveals how the author thinks:
- Luffy's opponent: 4,000
- Zoro's opponent: 2,200
- Sanji's opponent: 2,180
The doriki ratings are pointless. First of all, only Luffy struggled with Lucci, whereas Zoro and Sanji defeated their opponents easily enough to keep going afterwards.
Second, we have the fact that Lucci, Kaku and Jabura are all Zoan users. Their doriki was measured in their normal form, but Zoans specifically increase the users physical strenght. So their Doriki in Zoan forms should be much higher.
Additionally, Zoro and Kaku use swords, which aren't taken into account in doriki ratings, and neither are Sanji's flames.
The only thing that Doriki tells us, is the internal ranking within the CP9: Kaku and Jabura are vastly stronger than the other agents, and Lucci is vastly stronger than even them.
Infering that Zoro=Sanji, based on Enies Lobby, is not possible. By the way, Girraffes are far deadlier than wolves. They fight like Kaku does, using their neck as a whip, and one hit can kill a grown man.
Regarding the ranking of the Supernovas:
We know Luffy and Urouge can defeat a Yonko commander. Law is on the same tier as Luffy. Seeing Kid competing with Luffy in the prison, it seems the same goes for him. From the little we have seen of Hawkins chasing Luffy and Zoro, and how casual Jack was with him, he's probably on the same tier.
We know nothing about Snack, so Urouge is as almost as featless as the others. Law, while he likely would defeat Luffy in an 1v1 because Luffy is too dumb, is definitely below Luffy. See their performances vs Doflamingo. However, we know Sanji doesn't come even close here. While being superior in speed, Sanji's kicks only did little damage to Oven, and Doflamingo would have straight up killed him in seconds.
Capone is behind them, as he was afraid of fighting Nekomamushi or the Sweet Commanders. From his interaction with Sanji, I assume him and Zoro are on this tier.
Capone was afraid of Nekomamushi, not of Sanji. Zoro already implied he would have chosen to fight instead of giving in to Bege's demands. It is unclear if he could have, but Sanji apparently didn't see it as a viable option.
I think you write off Bege too easily. When evaluating him, one has to include the entire Firetank Pirates as his battle pets, just like one has to include Salome when evaluating Hancock. Vito killed 100M Bobbin in a single shot. Chiffon likely is Zombie-General Shadow level. Can't say much about Gotti, but apparently, he is a standout, too. Bege also tanked multiple hits from Big Mom, and the first thing future-seeing Katakuri did after witnessing Bege transform was stuffing the cannons with Mochi.
Sanji has nothing against Big Father either. We have seen Luffy, Zoro and Law vs mountains, but never Sanji as far as I recall. Sanji is about pinpoint damage, he doesn't have the destructive power that the others have.
It's not clear how strong Appo, Drake and Killer are, since we don't have seen any real action from them post-timeskip.
Actually we knew Drake > Caribou for a quite some time.
But now we also know Drake > all but 5 other headliners in the Beasts Pirates, excluding Hawkins and Apoo who only joined recently.
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