Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[King Moe]

When people say Robin > Sanji, what they mean is her devil fruit, the ability to grow limbs and immobilize target and break their necks.

It depends on her strength, if she is strong enough to keep the opponent stuck. I think her chances to immobilize Sanji are quite good because she only has to focus on grabbing his legs since nothing else is a threat. If her strength is good enough there is a chance that she would be able to deal with Zoro as well but would have more trouble since he is physically stronger and she has to neutralize his arms too. I don't think she would be able to immobilize Luffy due to his stretchiness and ability to inflate.

She did have trouble with Jigoro who had Zoro's shadow and couldn't keep him immobilized but on the other hand, she was able to break Aokiji. One could argue that Aokiji didn't resist with his full power since he knew that attack cant harm him but she also effectively dealt with Hakuba who was incredibly fast and quite strong.

Not really. Both are physical stronger, but Sanji more than Zoro in this situation. If I recall back during her early days, she stop Zoro from unsheathing his swords by putting arms on it. If she created more, she has better chance on him unlike Sanji who fight with his legs for a living. It would too much for her to hold him down especially by the legs.

Also Idk if you should compare a Zombie's strength as the same lvl as its owner. Oars was much larger and just basic Luffy's attack did more damage compare to Luffy's size. Don't think the reason can work here the same way.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Guys... against a woman... Sanji will always lose... robin wouldnt even need her powers.

 

[King Moe]

Guys... against a woman... Sanji will always lose... robin wouldnt even need her powers.

We know. Though just talking on what happens without it in theory is all. Wouldn't even be a fight as Sanji probably walk away due to not hitting women.

 

[nik87]

Not really. Both are physical stronger,

We know that they are stronger physically, she still has a good chance to stop them.
She stopped Hakuba easily who is a stronger version of Cavendish while Cavendish almost evenly clashed with Chinjao's headbutt.
Sanji is physically weaker than Zoro, that's not up for debate and considering that she only has to immobilize legs it would be an easier job. On the other hand, she could focus only on immobilizing Zoro's hands since his feet aren't really a danger for her so the difficulty could be similar.
With gigantic hands in post-time-skip her chances of immobilizing people are much better, she would probably deal with both.

 

[King Moe]

We know that they are stronger physically, she still has a good chance to stop them.
She stopped Hakuba easily who is a stronger version of Cavendish while Cavendish almost evenly clashed with Chinjao's headbutt.
Sanji is physically weaker than Zoro, that's not up for debate and considering that she only has to immobilize legs it would be an easier job. On the other hand, she could focus only on immobilizing Zoro's hands since his feet aren't really a danger for her so the difficulty could be similar.
With gigantic hands in post-time-skip her chances of immobilizing people are much better, she would probably deal with both.

Habuka shows nothing in physical strength except speed. Not same thing on having strength. When he clashed with Chinjao? Don't remember that.

Not really. Sanji shown feats of durability in many instances. His durability and strength is still comparable to Zoro. Both will take more in holding back. Zoro she just need her regular hands as again his needs swords to fight. I think Robin would easily remove his blades and hold him down as unlike Sanji he can't fight without them. Robin is smart so she will exploit. Sanji can get away through speed and can break through as he was design to fight with his body more than Zoro.

Plus Sanji can use his hands to escape, so that different from fighting. Shouldn't underestimate that.

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

That is a very good point lol
Right, that fight actually proves your point. I mean, i could use good old argument of PiS, and Oda not wanting to end every Robin fight with a clutch since that would be pretty boring.

My gosh, it so so refreshing to actually debate with someone who is willing to not let blind hatred control their arguments for once lmao. I wouldn't say it's PiS, it makes more logical sense that someone of Robin's figure wouldn't be able to just casually clutch any jacked on-steroid muscle head she pleases at the start of a fight.It would be a case of NLF (no limits fallacy) if she could.

Track Sanji? As long as Robin can see him she can grow arms on him. Are you implying that Sanji pre-timeskip was so insanely fast that Robin could not even see him when he attacks? That's pretty extreme.
"Tracking" would be a fitting term to describe how she handled Hakuba; this guy was so fast he was being invisible to the eye. Now i know this is post-timeskip. But i don't doubt that if post-timeskip Robin could use her powers on Hakuba, then pre-timeskip Robin could use her powers on pre-timeskip Sanji. I might be wrong but that's what i think.

Eh, maybe I was going a little overboard with her not being able to track him. I can concede that she might be able to keep up with his soru level speed since I'm satisfied enough with the physical strength argument.

 

[Pirate Queen]

This is where we are at now?

Robin>Sanji?

Lol, I GOTTA skip this debate or I'm getting banned

 

[M3J]

Robin is in a way overpowered because she can fight long range and use her power for defensive purposes. She even has a chance to beat Luffy, especially if they're close to the sea or a source of water. Well, she did until Luffy learned haki.

Problem is, One Piece shouldn't be measured by power because there are several things that come into play. Devil fruit, haki mastery, and whatnot. Zoro can be superior to Luffy and still lose to Doflamingo just because he doesn't have a body that can expand with haki, like what Luffy did when he was bound. Had Luffy not had that ability, he would have been dead.

Enel could be inferior to characters like Sanji and Zoro and still win thanks to his devil fruit. Even Lucci pointed out how if Luffy had a normal body, he'd have had a hole in his throat at the Galley La building. Sanji and Luffy would also be likely to lose to Mr. 1 just because Mr. 1 is a swordsman (to a degree anyway) who can harden his body to steel-like defense, where Zoro had to get strong enough to cut through steel. Hell, we saw Luffy fail to beat Ace and Sabo all the time because he wasn't good at using his gomu gomu powers.

 

[Pirate Queen]

lose to Mr. 1 just because Mr. 1 is a swordsman (to a degree anyway) who can harden his body to steel-like defense, where Zoro had to get strong enough to cut through steel.

Luffy could shatter Don Kriegs Steel armor and there are many other moments when Luffy broke through steel. Daz Bones wasnt that big of a threat, even to Baratie level Luffy

For Zoro it was an important milestone because he had to learn to cut ALL things as a swordsman. Luffy never needed to think about those types of limitations because he is an idiot/genius brawler who breaks things with his fists.

I do agree with your points. It's also why I think Shanks is the most POWERFUL of the Yonko, but not the STRONGEST.

I thinks words like STRONGEST, MOST POWERFUL, GREATEST are just confusing in general when it comes to power levels

 

[M3J]

Luffy could shatter Don Kriegs Steel armor and there are many other moments when Luffy broke through steel. Daz Bones wasnt that big of a threat, even to Baratie level Luffy

For Zoro it was an important milestone because he had to learn to cut ALL things as a swordsman. Luffy never needed to think about those types of limitations because he is an idiot/genius brawler who breaks things with his fists.

I do agree with your points. It's also why I think Shanks is the most POWERFUL of the Yonko, but not the STRONGEST.

I thinks words like STRONGEST, MOST POWERFUL, GREATEST are just confusing in general when it comes to power levels

Pretty sure Daz was because of his devil fruit being blades, if I recall correctly. Luffy at the time had no counter to that, I believe? Not sure if his sandals would work like it did against Zoro. And like I said, the problem is that Daz is a swordsman who can turn any part of his body to a blade, which would be a disadvantage to Luffy as he has nothing to counter that without haki or swords. Daz seemed to be quite a bit of a threat. Though, Luffy could have probably hurt Daz if he avoided the edge or sharp parts.

I don't think those words should be used as anything but ways for mangaka to hype up characters, in most cases anyway. It's also another reason why I find it difficult to believe Sanji is as inferior as made out to be, because he hasn't had a complete or clean fight in a while. The only one he had was against Watatsumi where he and Jinbei easily the enemy, but Luffy was the only Straw Hat who had a problem with Hodi as far as I recall. And what I said above also serves my point as to why it's dumb to compare Luffy vs. Doflamingo to Sanji vs. Doflamingo.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Sanji shown feats of durability in many instances.

like when sanji got knocked out with one-hit by zoro in thriller bark?
or when vergo broke sanji's legs in his first hit?

 

[afromarco005]

I don't think those words should be used as anything but ways for mangaka to hype up characters, in most cases anyway. It's also another reason why I find it difficult to believe Sanji is as inferior as made out to be, because he hasn't had a complete or clean fight in a while. The only one he had was against Watatsumi where he and Jinbei easily the enemy, but Luffy was the only Straw Hat who had a problem with Hodi as far as I recall. And what I said above also serves my point as to why it's dumb to compare Luffy vs. Doflamingo to Sanji vs. Doflamingo.

I agree, no one in the crew not even Law could win against DD once parasite string hits them. Sanji lost but so would Zoro and the others (outside maybe the legendary soul king who has no nerves to control).

What is interesting imo is the brief clash before he got "parasited" with the double diable jambe and poele à frire spectre it gives us an indication of sanjis strenght. but again, gear second/third luffy was getting manhandled by doffy before he became serious and went gear 4th so we cant judge him on that.

On the robin discussion

• I think that she is underestimated along with most other strawhats because she isnt part of the "monster trio" notion that blinds most people when it comes to the crew.
• Like @M3J said earlier, one piece is not only about strenght, there is a lot of Hax and other parameters. Robin beating sanji with her powers to me is just as possible as sugar defeating kaido. Hax is real. also she has that nuts cracking technique

@King Moe

Spoiler

 

[M3J]

I agree, no one in the crew not even Law could win against DD once parasite string hits them. Sanji lost but so would Zoro and the others (outside maybe the legendary soul king who has no nerves to control).

What is interesting imo is the brief clash before he got "parasited" with the double diable jambe and poele à frire spectre it gives us an indication of sanjis strenght. but again, gear second/third luffy was getting manhandled by doffy before he became serious and went gear 4th so we cant judge him on that.

parasite string as in the move that bound Sanji and Luffy, right? Or is that where Doflamingo controls the person? I dunno if Law could break out though, given he has Room/Shambles. What'd stop him from switching if he can still use his hand?

Yeah, and if Sanji was using his strongest attack/s, then he definitely would have lost to Doflamingo. At least here we can say Sanji is inferior to Luffy as well as he seems to have nothing that can rival Gear 4, otherwise prior to that reveal it did look Sanji and Luffy were close enough in power.

I think everyone who came across Doflamingo were either manhandled by him or were unable to have an advantage over him, and it seems that Aokiji is the only person that Doflamingo did not want to mess with, at least not when he was in a hurry. Though, he did praise Sanji so there's that.

 

[Pirate Queen]

. The only one he had was against Watatsumi where he and Jinbei easily the enemy, but Luffy was the only Straw Hat who had a problem with Hodi as far as I recall.

Luffy never struggled with Hody until Hody took the energy steroids that doubled his power with each pill he took and he took >5 and Luffy was weakened by sea water at different points in the fight.

No one else fought Hody while he was drugged, just in his weakened normal form

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

watatsumi is only big in size, but he sucks at fighting.
I mean, luffy was already one-shotting a giant sea monster in the first chapter of this series.

 

[Fox666]

Yeah, and if Sanji was using his strongest attack/s, then he definitely would have lost to Doflamingo. At least here we can say Sanji is inferior to Luffy as well as he seems to have nothing that can rival Gear 4, otherwise prior to that reveal it did look Sanji and Luffy were close enough in power.

IMHO that's underestimating the difference between Luffy and the rest of the crew. I can't see Sanji or Zoro standing up against Chinjao or Katakuri the way Luffy did without Gear 4.

 

[M3J]

Luffy never struggled with Hody until Hody took the energy steroids that doubled his power with each pill he took and he took >5 and Luffy was weakened by sea water at different points in the fight.

No one else fought Hody while he was drugged, just in his weakened normal form

I never said otherwise, you're getting defensive here. No need to point out Hodi was drugged up and kept taking drugs, we all know that.

IMHO that's underestimating the difference between Luffy and the rest of the crew. I can't see Sanji or Zoro standing up against Chinjao or Katakuri the way Luffy did without Gear 4.

I feel like Zoro could stand against Chinjao with great swords while Sanji might stand a chance against Katakuri, but only if his speed is anywhere close to Luffy's. Otherwise other than fire, I can't remember Sanji being as destructive.

 

[King Moe]

I never said otherwise, you're getting defensive here. No need to point out Hodi was drugged up and kept taking drugs, we all know that.


I feel like Zoro could stand against Chinjao with great swords while Sanji might stand a chance against Katakuri, but only if his speed is anywhere close to Luffy's. Otherwise other than fire, I can't remember Sanji being as destructive.

Sanji hasn't shown all his pre-timeslot moves in DJ and Haki format through like the Anti-Matter Kick Course and other powerful attacks to be destructive. He can still use them for sure if shown more of his power.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I never said otherwise, you're getting defensive here. No need to point out Hodi was drugged up and kept taking drugs, we all know that.


I feel like Zoro could stand against Chinjao with great swords while Sanji might stand a chance against Katakuri, but only if his speed is anywhere close to Luffy's. Otherwise other than fire, I can't remember Sanji being as destructive.

I'm not getting defensive at all. You just made a point to say ONLY Luffy struggled with Hody, but you didnt mention the external factors.

I hope your not confusing people help clarify your statements with getting defensive.

 

[M3J]

Sanji hasn't shown all his pre-timeslot moves in DJ and Haki format through like the Anti-Matter Kick Course and other powerful attacks to be destructive. He can still use them for sure if shown more of his power.

How destructive are those attacks? And he could have used those attacks on Doflamingo, even, when his friends' lives were in danger.

I'm not getting defensive at all. You just made a point to say ONLY Luffy struggled with Hody, but you didnt mention the external factors.

I hope your not confusing people help clarify your statements with getting defensive.

It is defensive unless it's not commonly recalled that Hodi had to keep using drugs to even give Luffy a challenge.