Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[Pirate Queen]

Also was hybrid mode and still use power and get damage hard once again. The issue is he is not being observant, but his power is legit.

Sanji isn't even trying on his side, you know that? He been giving no name kicks so far and haven't use more power. Also Sanji has a lot durability with or without RS as shown in his fights. That wouldn't take him down even if the suit was damage. Plus being speedy as well power putting him advantage over Page One even more as shown since he can't seem to keep up.

Still testing it out so it looks he wanted to get hit on purpose to see how durable it is. Again your stretching and trying to downplay things once again, Afro. Gotta stop with the habit when all signs show Sanji being the more dominating person in the fight.

Doing a lot more better than nail-biter (Zoro) when dealing with a much tough headliner. That's for sure.

I think your stance/debates would go a lot further if you toned down the snide Zoro comments.

You make valid points but that last comments just make it seem like your only looking for an equivalent in zoro. It distracts and courts off topic points.

On the opposite side, it's clear Sanji's feats are being downplayed by SOME not all. Page 1 is most likely a top 10 fighter in Kaido's crew (kaido + 3 superstars + 6 flying fighters) and at LEAST, Sanji isn't struggling and actually looking more impressive between him and P1.

More importantly, Sanji's ability to blitz opponents is showing to be his greatest asset in a fight. As the fastest Strawhat (2nd?) I dont expect less.

Like is said earlier, Oda made a point to say Sanji could not take damage before the final fight and has to do serious damage to P1 before reinforcements or this would have been a waste of time. No Strawhats have ever failed their objectives when set to a certain mission. Expecting less of Sanji in this instance is courting disappointment (in my opinion)

Forum members need to be seeing this as a "Yonko Crew vs a Yonko Crew", not "Strawhats vs a Yonko Crew".... Not as a "Zoro feats vs Sanji feats" discussion.

 

[King Moe]

Woops there it is. "I dont really win this argument, lets insult Zoro."

How? It's clear Sanji dominate and winning. Though yeah here "Let's bag on Sanji and those who counter you to downplay it" like your doing. Always quick to get involve in this each time if it going bad on your side. Just saying xD.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 13, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 13, 2019 ---

Whatever the outcome of the fight I only hope it's not off-paneled but everything points towards it.

Would it be that bad? If he off-paneled top 6 fighter with ease, that put more emphasized on Sanji on how much he can show later on when he fights YC later on.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 13, 2019 ---

I think your stance/debates would go a lot further if you toned down the snide Zoro comments.

You make valid points but that last comments just make it seem like your only looking for an equivalent in zoro. It distracts and courts off topic points.

On the opposite side, it's clear Sanji's feats are being downplayed by SOME not all. Page 1 is most likely a top 10 fighter in Kaido's crew (kaido + 3 superstars + 6 flying fighters) and at LEAST, Sanji isn't struggling and actually looking more impressive between him and P1.

More importantly, Sanji's ability to blitz opponents is showing to be his greatest asset in a fight. As the fastest Strawhat (2nd?) I dont expect less.

Like is said earlier, Oda made a point to say Sanji could not take damage before the final fight and has to do serious damage to P1 before reinforcements or this would have been a waste of time. No Strawhats have ever failed their objectives when set to a certain mission. Expecting less of Sanji in this instance is courting disappointment (in my opinion)

Forum members need to be seeing this as a "Yonko Crew vs a Yonko Crew", not "Strawhats vs a Yonko Crew".... Not as a "Zoro feats vs Sanji feats" discussion.

Only brought it in when Afro refer to Sanji as 'cake-baker', so he brought it on himself if his post can be unbiased for once when talking about Sanji. Once he doesn't, I wouldn't have to bring it in.

My points are still affective and workout, but got come at me with same fairness if you want in the discussion and not referring characters to petty names over last event that has reason to it. I don't want to do same about it either.

Just a few trying to downplay about it. Majority if you look around the websites, are complimenting Sanji and Page One about it being good. The ones try to downplay is usually Zoro-affiliated fans. Not trying to make it Sanji vs Zoro discussion, but Afro and few others still want to downplay it as minor thing when it's a big moment for Sanji. I get how Sanji been in his fights lately a bit, but we got a full fight one on one in a long while with him against major opponent and the first thing to downplay or think the bad outcome by those few? Just saying the other side aren't really credible on their arguments is all.

Though I agree where you talking about, Lexus. A lot of actions are pointing it to be on Sanji side as nothing put out that it have bad outcome. Just stating it from my posts is what I am saying.

 

[nik87]

Would it be that bad? If he off-paneled top 6 fighter with ease, that put more emphasized on Sanji on how much he can show later on when he fights YC later on.

It would be bad because Oda has been doing that since time-skip. He didnt give a single fight to Sanji(and other Strawhats as well, excluding Luffy), a full, detailed, on panel fight is needed since forever.
It's also needed to show some feats for Sanji in NW(aside from moonwalk and Hells Memories) and it's needed precisely because you think he would defeat one of the 6 Flying Fighters(not top 6 in Kaido's army) with ease, even after witnessing the force behind a single arm swing unnamed attack...
Oda needs to be very precise and detailed about Sanji's fights otherwise people will never stop underestimating him.
I am hoping it's not off-paneled fight for Sanji's good.

 

[King Moe]

It would be bad because Oda has been doing that since time-skip. He didnt give a single fight to Sanji(and other Strawhats as well, excluding Luffy), a full, detailed, on panel fight is needed since forever.
It's also needed to show some feats for Sanji in NW(aside from moonwalk and Hells Memories) and it's needed precisely because you think he would defeat one of the 6 Flying Fighters(not top 6 in Kaido's army) with ease, even after witnessing the force behind a single arm swing unnamed attack...
Oda needs to be very precise and detailed about Sanji's fights otherwise people will never stop underestimating him.
I am hoping it's not off-paneled fight for Sanji's good.

Don't think many will see it like that. Sure they be disappointed for some not seeing everything, but if Sanji come out unscathed and defeated Page One somewhat easily, would be a big feat for him regardless.

Though I do agree I want to see Sanji in full fights more as well the others than just only Luffy alone. Hopon the arc be something like Enies Lobby on many fights take for the others before their final fights as since this be a huge war involving many forces of Kaido, Big Mom, and Marines, I see no reason why many be left out from shining in the arc.

Do you think it be Marineford War Arc lvl of fights around?

 

[nik87]

but if Sanji come out unscathed and defeated Page One somewhat easily, would be a big feat for him regardless.

I don't know why you think that off-paneled victory is a big feat when literally nothing is shown. When nothing is shown it only opens up more questions.

Do you think it be Marineford War Arc lvl of fights around?

I hope it's different than Marineford since Marineford fights were rather terrible imo.
Not a single fight was a proper 1vs1 but rather ganging up, cheap shots, short clashes...

 

[King Moe]

I don't know why you think that off-paneled victory is a big feat when literally nothing is shown. When nothing is shown it only opens up more questions.

I hope it's different than Marineford since Marineford fights were rather terrible imo.
Not a single fight was a proper 1vs1 but rather ganging up, cheap shots, short clashes...

You guys praised characters like Zoro on his off-screen moments and more. Sanji does the same wouldn't be a issue. If he comes out looking good and hardly even damage while taking out Top 6 Headliner, that is a giant feat, no matter what. Plus there possibilities of him showing more later on when facing other enemies especially YC. So it wouldn't be secrets at all and anime canon filler can help too.

Not really. Many praise the fights even if they were like that and anime help extend it more. It was hardly like that at all. Though want more Enies Lobby honestly to see more fights for each Strawhats to their limits for sure.

 

[afromarco005]

Whatever the outcome of the fight I only hope it's not off-paneled but everything points towards it.

Oda off panelled Akainu vs Aokiji, Black beard vs revos, revos vs marines at reverie at this point he can off pannel any fight not including luffy in the story...

How? It's clear Sanji dominate and winning. Though yeah here "Let's bag on Sanji and those who counter you to downplay it" like your doing. Always quick to get involve in this each time if it going bad on your side. Just saying xD.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 13, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 13, 2019 ---

Would it be that bad? If he off-paneled top 6 fighter with ease, that put more emphasized on Sanji on how much he can show later on when he fights YC later on.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 13, 2019 ---

Only brought it in when Afro refer to Sanji as 'cake-baker', so he brought it on himself if his post can be unbiased for once when talking about Sanji. Once he doesn't, I wouldn't have to bring it in.

My points are still affective and workout, but got come at me with same fairness if you want in the discussion and not referring characters to petty names over last event that has reason to it. I don't want to do same about it either.

Just a few trying to downplay about it. Majority if you look around the websites, are complimenting Sanji and Page One about it being good. The ones try to downplay is usually Zoro-affiliated fans. Not trying to make it Sanji vs Zoro discussion, but Afro and few others still want to downplay it as minor thing when it's a big moment for Sanji. I get how Sanji been in his fights lately a bit, but we got a full fight one on one in a long while with him against major opponent and the first thing to downplay or think the bad outcome by those few? Just saying the other side aren't really credible on their arguments is all.

Though I agree where you talking about, Lexus. A lot of actions are pointing it to be on Sanji side as nothing put out that it have bad outcome. Just stating it from my posts is what I am saying.

Chill dude, I only stated my opinion (the fight will end up as a tie) and showed evidence from the manga (Page one not being serious, not taking damage, casual attack in hybrid sent Soba flying, sanji's suit protecting him from most of the damage etc) thats all where is the "downplaying" in that?

Don't get me wrong I am hyped too, but I see things for what they are, and sure Sanji may off pannel savage boy no diff but based on the evidence shown onpannel I believe that the fight is much closer than you may think.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Oda off panelled Akainu vs Aokiji, Black beard vs revos, revos vs marines at reverie at this point he can off pannel any fight not including luffy in the story...



Chill dude, I only stated my opinion (the fight will end up as a tie) and showed evidence from the manga (Page one not being serious, not taking damage, casual attack in hybrid sent Soba flying, sanji's suit protecting him from most of the damage etc) thats all where is the "downplaying" in that?

Don't get me wrong I am hyped too, but I see things for what they are, and sure Sanji may off pannel savage boy no diff but based on the evidence shown onpannel I believe that the fight is much closer than you may think.

Chill dude, I only stated my opinion (the fight will end up as a tie) and showed evidence from the manga (Page one not being serious, not taking damage, casual attack in hybrid sent Soba flying, sanji's suit protecting him from most of the damage etc) thats all where is the "downplaying" in that


1) Page 1 not being serious? You dont know what he looks like serious so this is down playing

2) Not taking damage? He was last heard crying out in pain (clearly he was damaged) so that is blatant down playing

3) Casual attack? You don't know that either and it can be stated Sanji is being casual as well since neither used names attacks


You are most certainly down playing Sanji if those are your points.

In this case, your opinions dont match manga facts

 

[afromarco005]

Chill dude, I only stated my opinion (the fight will end up as a tie) and showed evidence from the manga (Page one not being serious, not taking damage, casual attack in hybrid sent Soba flying, sanji's suit protecting him from most of the damage etc) thats all where is the "downplaying" in that


1) Page 1 not being serious? You dont know what he looks like serious so this is down playing

2) Not taking damage? He was last heard crying out in pain (clearly he was damaged) so that is blatant down playing

3) Casual attack? You don't know that either and it can be stated Sanji is being casual as well since neither used names attacks


You are most certainly down playing Sanji if those are your points.

In this case, your opinions dont match manga facts

1) Its been established since ennies lobby that serious zoan are in hybrid form. Page one staying in full dino mode is a sign of him not being serious.

2) Both of them took no significant damage as far as we were shown.Simply crying in pain is not evidence that Sanji will no diff someone, or did colossal damage especially when this person damaged him just before albeit lightly

Spoiler

3)where did I say that Sanji was not using casual kicks too? The fight just started and neither fighter has used a named attack (the sign of someone being somewhat serious in this series) so yeah, no downplaying here either.

Facts are both fighters attacked both recieved light injuries one because of his suit the other of his thick zoan dino scales hence why I think that the fight will remain undecided

 

[Pirate Queen]

1) Its been established since ennies lobby that serious zoan are in hybrid form. Page one staying in full dino mode is a sign of him not being serious.

2) Both of them took no significant damage as far as we were shown.Simply crying in pain is not evidence that Sanji will no diff someone, or did colossal damage especially when this person damaged him just before albeit lightly

Spoiler

3)where did I say that Sanji was not using casual kicks too? The fight just started and neither fighter has used a named attack (the sign of someone being somewhat serious in this series) so yeah, no downplaying here either.

Facts are both fighters attacked both recieved light injuries one because of his suit the other of his thick zoan dino scales hence why I think that the fight will remain undecided

1)Page 1 is in hybrid mode... He is no longer in full Dino mode so idk what you mean by that

2)"not taking damage" You said P1 took NO damage now your saying SIGNIFICANT damage, 2 different things. And P1 crying out is definitely a sign he took a bad hit.

Clearly downplaying 2 points

 

[thedude]

1) Its been established since ennies lobby that serious zoan are in hybrid form. Page one staying in full dino mode is a sign of him not being serious.

2) Both of them took no significant damage as far as we were shown.Simply crying in pain is not evidence that Sanji will no diff someone, or did colossal damage especially when this person damaged him just before albeit lightly

Spoiler

3)where did I say that Sanji was not using casual kicks too? The fight just started and neither fighter has used a named attack (the sign of someone being somewhat serious in this series) so yeah, no downplaying here either.

Facts are both fighters attacked both recieved light injuries one because of his suit the other of his thick zoan dino scales hence why I think that the fight will remain undecided

Not sure how you can say Page One isn't being serious, then say that Zoan's are only serious in hybrid form, and then follow all that up with a screenshot of...Page One fighting Sanji in hybrid form.

(also, when Drake fought a Pacifista "seriously", he fought in full dinosaur form. I also imagine that we will see that Kaido's most serious form is his full dragon form that he showed already. Best not to make guesses like this and pronounce them fact).

 

[nik87]

You guys praised characters like Zoro on his off-screen moments and more. Sanji does the same wouldn't be a issue. If he comes out looking good and hardly even damage while taking out Top 6 Headliner, that is a giant feat, no matter what. Plus there possibilities of him showing more later on when facing other enemies especially YC. So it wouldn't be secrets at all and anime canon filler can help too.

I dont remember Zoro off paneling anyone and certainly dont remember praising him for off paneling. There is nothing to praise when off paneled.
There are no feats shown to be praised, whether it's Zoro, Sanji, Luffy or anyone else.
If Sanji trashes P1 without taking major injuries it's impressive for sure but only opens up questions. How did he do that? Which specific combat feat deserves the praise for that?

Not really. Many praise the fights even if they were like that and anime help extend it more. It was hardly like that at all. Though want more Enies Lobby honestly to see more fights for each Strawhats to their limits for sure.

It was a good arc overall.
A good fighting arc? I wouldnt say so. Not a single character explored and showed all of their abilities.
Rushing to save Ace, clashing shortly, running to escape doesnt sound like good arc to display combat to the fullest. If we take Whitebeard aside, we almost got nothing left, everyone else showed an ability or two and that's it.
Marineford has shown us what war looks like, however, only Whitebeard had the opportunity to show all he's got and even he was limited because his DF was too destructive and he couldnt go all out because of his underlings.

And anime is going away more and more from the facts of Manga, up to the point of me questioning it's credibility.
One does not simply stop Pekoms from going Sulong in Manga to let him wreck havoc in Sulong in Anime.

@Lexusflame @thedude What I think that Afro meant with not serious is the part until P1 went into hybrid form. Until hybrid form, we can agree he wasnt really serious since based on all the Zoans before, it's the hybrid form which is optimal for combat.
After he went into hybrid form, he sent Sanji flying through the city and he thought Sanji was dead. Then Sanji smacked him from the sky but we dont see the hit, that's all we got for now.
Since it was a hit from high altitude and P1 not being aware it's convenient if he knocked him out temporarily. Sounds like a good option considering P1's strength, as it seems legit and the fact that Drake and Hawkins are about to arrive any moment...

I am sure that hybrid form is THE form when it comes to serious combat, even for Kaido as it gives them the strength of the animal in humanoid form. Animal forms are rather too slow and unoptimized for high-level combat.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I dont remember Zoro off paneling anyone and certainly dont remember praising him for off paneling. There is nothing to praise when off paneled.
There are no feats shown to be praised, whether it's Zoro, Sanji, Luffy or anyone else.
If Sanji trashes P1 without taking major injuries it's impressive for sure but only opens up questions. How did he do that? Which specific combat feat deserves the praise for that?

It was a good arc overall.
A good fighting arc? I wouldnt say so. Not a single character explored and showed all of their abilities.
Rushing to save Ace, clashing shortly, running to escape doesnt sound like good arc to display combat to the fullest. If we take Whitebeard aside, we almost got nothing left, everyone else showed an ability or two and that's it.

And anime is going away more and more from the facts of Manga, up to the point of me questioning it's credibility.
One does not simply stop Pekoms from going Sulong in Manga to let him wreck havoc in Sulong in Anime.

@Lexusflame @thedude What I think that Afro meant with not serious is the part until P1 went into hybrid form. Until hybrid form, we can agree he wasnt really serious since based on all the Zoans before, it's the hybrid form which is optimal for combat.
After he went into hybrid form, he sent Sanji flying through the city and he thought Sanji was dead. Then Sanji smacked him from the sky but we dont see the hit, that's all we got for now.
Since it was a hit from high altitude and P1 not being aware it's convenient if he knocked him out temporarily. Sounds like a good option considering P1's strength, as it seems legit and the fact that Drake and Hawkins are about to arrive any moment...

I am sure that hybrid form is THE form when it comes to serious combat, even for Kaido as it gives them the strength of the animal in humanoid form. Animal forms are rather too slow and unoptimized for high-level combat.

IF that is the case, there is confusion between going ALL OUT and being SERIOUS. Either way, when we left off P1 was't fairing any better In his hybrid form than his animal form. Only difference was he threw a punch.

My points still stand. The points that were made were inaccurate.

And while we dont see the hit, P1 is clearly crying out in pain.

 

[nik87]

when we left off P1 was't fairing any better In his hybrid form than his animal form.

And while we dont see the hit, P1 is clearly crying out in pain.

Correct but both hits came as a cheap shot, in first hit he was combat ready but in last hit he completely didnt expect it since he thought Sanji was dead.

 

[King Moe]

Correct but both hits came as a cheap shot, in first hit he was combat ready but in last hit he completely didnt expect it since he thought Sanji was dead.

No cheap shots in a fight. Please don't use that as excuse. He still attitude to keep fighting and in a fight you opponent can be faster on hitting you before you realize. Downplaying tie "no fast attacks" is stupid when a lot of characters do that even Zoro when he slice at Hawkins when he wasn't looking and fighting with Pica.

 

[nik87]

No cheap shots in a fight. Please don't use that as excuse.

I wont use it as "giant feat" either. Hitting someone who isnt aware of the threat and thinks you are dead... What twisted logic is that?

is stupid when a lot of characters do that even Zoro when he slice at Hawkins when he wasn't looking and fighting with Pica.

Who uses Zoro cheap shotting Hawkins as a giant feat? I want facts, quotes.
Zoro has defeated Pica head on. I dont know what you are trying to say.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Correct but both hits came as a cheap shot, in first hit he was combat ready but in last hit he completely didnt expect it since he thought Sanji was dead.

And that is an excuse for P1 to be failing? Oh come on nik lol. Cheap shots? Because Sanji can speed blitz him? Why take away from Sanji when P1 is trash at observation?

P1 is the antagonist in this scenario, he attacked the Soba carts... Your telling me he wasn't expecting Sanji? He was literally calling out the Soba owner when Sanji first attacked him.... The second kick came after he thought Sanji was dead. How is that Sanji's fault?

Sanji speed is always highlighted but it always gets downgraded to cheap shots and it's a bad excuse...

 

[King Moe]

I wont use it as "giant feat" either. Hitting someone who isnt aware of the threat and thinks you are dead... What twisted logic is that?


Who uses Zoro cheap shotting Hawkins as a giant feat? I want facts, quotes.
Zoro has defeated Pica head on. I dont know what you are trying to say.

Tell that Luffy vs Katakuri fight as Luffy needed to be faster to hit him before he can be aware. Which is why Snakeman was used against him.

A some/lot of Zoro fans apparently. They even try to justify the situation as a "win or feat" of Zoro against Hawkins from their brief fight despite outcome of how both look compare.

Only in last hit, most of it was Zoro slicing him in stone form as he ran away before catching up due to help to attack Pica who attention was on King Riku. That would take away cutting the large form since Pica was not aware of him and a cheap shot, but many still put it as feat.

Again, anything goes on one on one fights and doing attacks faster than your oppponent can be aware of are not cheap. Your stretching on that too much.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Tell that Luffy vs Katakuri fight as Luffy needed to be faster to hit him before he can be aware. Which is why Snakeman was used against him.

A some/lot of Zoro fans apparently. They even try to justify the situation as a "win or feat" of Zoro against Hawkins from their brief fight despite outcome of how both look compare.

Only in last hit, most of it was Zoro slicing him in stone form as he ran away before catching up due to help to attack Pica who attention was on King Riku. That would take away cutting the large form since Pica was not aware of him and a cheap shot, but many still put it as feat.

Again, anything goes on one on one fights and doing attacks faster than your oppponemt can be aware of are not cheap. Your stretching on that too much.

I think your points pale to the fact that Page 1 was calling out Sanji in the first place. It's not like P1 was minding his own business.


Page 1 courted a fight and Sanji speed blitzed him.

 

[afromarco005]

@Lexusflame you jump in to defend moe and accuse me of downplaying but you don't seem to have read my posts.

Dude, Page one was not serious either he underestimated Sanji and his suit, I mean he tried to bite him in full dino mode...

Now that he has turned into his hybrid form savage is taking him a bit more seriously even sending the cake baker flying with one swing of his mighty arm.

Also yes he can feel pain and take damage but so can Sanji, the boy said that his raid suit protected him from most of the damage he would have received, not all of it.

Is what I said exactly.

My point all along was that both fighters are on par, not downplaying anyone.

You are nitpicking the words I chosed, I said no damage for either of them, and I mean none of them was left with something broken, cut or a bloody pulp on the floor, all the damage was very light onpannel which I keep repeating since this post.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2019 ---

I think your points pale to the fact that Page 1 was calling out Sanji in the first place. It's not like P1 was minding his own business.


Page 1 courted a fight and Sanji speed blitzed him.

He blitzed Oven too, but his kicks didn't do much damage here too. I see a pattern there.