So I started to avoid every and anything Sanji, because its just crazy here...
But seriously, yes Sanji defeated/beat up Page1. As to how bad, we dont know..But he won that fight. Simple as that. Sanji is seen again meaning he managed to escape without injury, so he seemingly beat Page1 up and left.
I personally don't like the current wano Arc, the plot is moving fast. Sanji's use of his raid suit was convenient and weird how he was so willing..Either way it was great! Loved the suits abilities and Sanji's enhancements
..
Page1 wasnt ready for something like that. I'm curious to see what Usopp and Franky adjust about it..Oda really should have shown that fight to give us an idea to how much stronger Sanji is with it oversll.then show us its new enhancements
So I started to avoid every and anything Sanji, because its just crazy here...
But seriously, yes Sanji defeated/beat up Page1. As to how bad, we dont know..But he won that fight. Simple as that. Sanji is seen again meaning he managed to escape without injury, so he seemingly beat Page1 up and left.
I personally don't like the current wano Arc, the plot is moving fast. Sanji's use of his raid suit was convenient and weird how he was so willing..Either way it was great! Loved the suits abilities and Sanji's enhancements
..
Page1 wasnt ready for something like that. I'm curious to see what Usopp and Franky adjust about it..Oda really should have shown that fight to give us an idea to how much stronger Sanji is with it oversll.then show us its new enhancements
It's moving at a good pace I think, i just hope Oda doesn't slow it down with boring things like the endless Big Mom chase in the last arc. I'll take quick pace over dragging pace that has sadly been too common since the time skip, all day.
It's moving at a good pace I think, i just hope Oda doesn't slow it down with boring things like the endless Big Mom chase in the last arc. I'll take quick pace over dragging pace that has sadly been too common since the time skip, all day.
He has man, just you acting poor judgement over it. Zoro can slice stones since pre-timeskip, not really amazing thing as even then we thought he could cut mountains, so Idk why you put it at that lvl. Sanji defeated an Giant that was larger than average one being Watsumadi (Who was also hype up on drugs given to him by NFP) in Fishman Island, he hold his own with Vergo, defeated Sheephead, Yonji (With RS), Bobbin (100,000,000 Million Beri+ Bounty), and Raisin as well hold his own with Daifuku and Oven. Lastely he defeated Page One and stop using that excuse on "HE NEEDS TO SHOW IT!" as NOT ALL FIGHTS WILL BE SHOWN EVERY PANEL AND CHAPTER (Emphasizing, not yelling). I just explain to you about off-screen fights, doesn't take anything away nor the feats. Reverie having stuff happening while Wano goes on with Sabo fighting, but that doesn't mean it's poor onto the character. Your focusing thinking the worse when it's not the worse.
Also again RS has positive reaction when he use it, only few like yourself are taking anger when the reason and appearance is positive on majority scale, so your stretching things too much here.
A gag does not mean to distort a character, Chopper has gone from being able to recognize the healing plants in a desert not to know that the jellyfish were not in vain touched.
He wore it for disguise, dude. Have you not been reading the series at all? If he fought Page One without it, they learn of his identity like Luffy and Zoro
Please go watch Fishman Island Arc, Punk Hazard Arc, Zou Arc, Whole Cake Island Arc, and Wano Arc (Ongoing) and see Chopper on what he is doing for those arcs.
You do nothing but defend all the choices of Oda, this is wrong.
Being a fan also means recognizing that the author is wrong and seeing what we like about the work or not.
To someone (many) hate how Sanji and Chopper are now? They will have their reasons especially if we talk about people who have been following the manga for years and not since yesterday.
I've been following One Piece since 2001, it's one of my favorite manga ever, and I've never complained about Sanji story arc until post timeskip.
So it is useless to suggest that we should read the manga, if you liked this management well, if I and many others sucked you can not come to say that we do not understand the manga.
@Ice King You have a point about Chopper's Monster form, the way he behaves now is just lowering his hype. It could have been handled in a better way, even if he has it under control now I think speaking and smiling should have been left out from that form. It's enough that he distinguishes friend from a foe and still keeps that monstrosity but I hope we can see that again once he spends more than 3 minutes in that form.
Wondering if Oda would pull something like Amaterasu(Naruto) as a possible power-up for Sanji. Giving Diable Jambe a second stage with a higher temperature, possibly dangerous for Sanji as well, which sets the enemy on fire upon contact and it cannot be extinguished or doable with greater effort...
You have a point about Chopper's Monster form, the way he behaves now is just lowering his hype. It could have been handled in a better way, even if he has it under control now I think speaking and smiling should have been left out from that form. It's enough that he distinguishes friend from a foe and still keeps that monstrosity but I hope we can see that again once he spends more than 3 minutes in that form.
The biggest gripe with Sanji is that his fandom is split into warring factions..1 Side isnt satisfied with Sanji's fights, his character development during his own personal history/background arc, and his "forced" actions during that arc..until lately Sanji wasnt impressing us, as we were waiting to see his full prowness, which its seems we did get somewhat, but he's received I guess a much needed power up.
Now the other half of the fandom, imo is a lil delusional and bias to the context, lack of feats and evidence otherwise to prove Sanji has been kicking ass on all fronts last few arcs when hes only very surprisingly preforming mediocre. They downplay the brief showdown with Vergo who fractured Sanji's shin bone with haki, to Sanji was injured before during mami's control. Then there's the whole beating up Luffy thing, which the other side says he was forcdd and his hands weee tied. He was ready to marry pudding to be left looking stupid after figuring out BM pirates goals. Reasoning again is similar to above, also saving Biratte resteraunt. With no 1 v 1, and only a speed feat against Oven, and Observation feat against Katakuri. To try to rescue Luffy and be saved by his Family the Vinsmokes. The argument there is that he was surrounded by dozens of the BM pirates, which is true..
However the divide is only about the past arc, I'm so over it, we are all entitles to our opinions and perceptions.
Currently Sanji is pretty fricking dope, but like i said I feel as no arc is a lil too fast, so Sanji Vinsmoke as his wanted poster says is dumb for thinking that No1 will recognize him in a raid lol..The suits abilities are dope asf tho, and Page1 obviously got spanked by Sanji with it. Let's just hope Sanji starts to put in that pain again
Come on, they even had 1 vs 1 or showed some skills ...
And anyway with Sanji it's different, he's always been one of the strongest members of the crew.
That in over 400 chapters did not support a decent 1 vs 1 or showed any significant improvement is ridiculous, no more, no less.
And the dress of the Germa is ridiculous, as well as everything that goes around the Vinsmoke.
Really when you think of Sanji the first thing that comes to mind is a fool with a mask wearing superhero suits with the movements of Sailor Moon?
I do not exclude that it may please someone, but it is not the Sanji I learned to love by reading the manga for years.
Nothing to complain if that will be happened to Franky, he has always been characterized like that, but Sanji no.
He was Mr. Prince, the one who saved everyone at the last, the one that lit cigarettes with lightening.
Now or participate in gags that pertain to his perpetually ingrifat being, or does the Tarot Power Rangers.
A disgust, in short.
If then you like it, nothing to say.
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Too bad that instead in doing so demonstrates its clear superiority to readers.
What Sanji does not do.
In the post-timeskip, who has beaten significant apart from Wadatsumi (not even by himself)?
Page One does not count it since it has been off screen.
Wadatsumi could be beaten by anyone, a huge target like him, and again, he did not do it alone.
Zoro that affects Pica colossus version instead is so far one of the greatest strength tests of the manga.
Undoubtedly superior to any Sanji post-timeskip feat.
I do not know that frequent environments, but to several fans did (rightly I would say) disgust.
If then there are fans who like Sanji Sailor Moon version, which I must say, different people, different tastes.
Ah was it a gag?
A gag does not mean to distort a character, Chopper has gone from being able to recognize the healing plants in a desert not to know that the jellyfish were not in vain touched.
And yes, I read the manga, for this critic.
Then again, did you like to see Sanji reduced like that?
Good for you.
Sure, those dance moves and the Sailor-style sketches are really suitable for the character.
When will we see him shooting laser beams?
That is nothing, if not the sweet and whiny mascot?
Oda himself said he had deliberately changed Chopper's design to make it more kawaii.
Look at his first transformations, damn it.
First it was dirty, ugly, a devil of an animal with a fruit of the devil.
Now ?
Even its transformations are a mess, all cute and cuddly.
You do nothing but defend all the choices of Oda, this is wrong.
Being a fan also means recognizing that the author is wrong and seeing what we like about the work or not.
To someone (many) hate how Sanji and Chopper are now? They will have their reasons especially if we talk about people who have been following the manga for years and not since yesterday.
I've been following One Piece since 2001, it's one of my favorite manga ever, and I've never complained about Sanji story arc until post timeskip.
So it is useless to suggest that we should read the manga, if you liked this management well, if I and many others sucked you can not come to say that we do not understand the manga.
Dude, of course. They are fodder-like weaklings looking at their personality and actions. You can't compare them with Sanji who take on Vergo, Doflamingo, Daifuku, Oven, and Page One. Those are serious threats, Zoro have failed to yet to face serious threat and overcome it. Each time he does, it's in bad on his part with Fujitora, Doflamingo's Birdcage, and Hawkins.
Dude, Sanji handle him majority of the fight before Jimbei came in much, still a big feat as well pushing back a giant that size.
Also stop with biased hate on not counting Page One. It's clear he defeated him. For you to say it doesn't 'count' cause off-screen is petty as hell and you showing your biased more. Oda does off-screen with other characters, not just Sanji before. They are feats regardless whether we see them or not. Oda insert they matter, so stop saying they don't as they does.
Majority of the fight still the same with Pica with Zoro as he needed help on fighting him off especially saving King Riku with Orbumlus and the others. By that logic it doesn't count for Zoro especially when Pica wasn't paying attention to him when he strikes. You can be one-side about it like that, dude.
Pica doesn't match those in a Yonko crew and since Sanji defeated Page One, he shown to be above of Zoro now until further notice of Zoro's performance.
No, never did. Majority have said Stealth Black looks cool and like it more looking it's design and capabilities. Plus Sanji did said he wants it modify to look less like Germa, so that takes away more he be always like a PR/SM later on. Also there are theories that RS can unlock more of his experiment latent genes, so there is possibility once it does, RS will only be temporary for him (Not that it already is as Sanji made clear he use it for disguises), so doubt it be a permanent thing for him in the long run.
Kinda does as we seen gags where Nami can hurt Luffy despite no Haki, so you don't take them seriously as it's all apart of that. Idk why your taking it that serious if it make be funny and plus you have to realize while he is '17' technically, he still a kid in Reindeer years, so he isn't that mature on adult lvl yet until down the line, so there be things he does know and still won't. He won't be instantly achieve his dream after 2 years of training as him and everyone else will have more ot learn down the line.
So you want his identity be reveal and reveal the plan of everyone more as they found out Black Leg Sanji is also on the island and thus confirm further that the crew is here? You want him in a situation where he is wanted by the law like Zoro and Luffy who is in jail right now from his prior actions. It's about thinking smart than fighting for the sake of fighting. Sanji been like this since pre-timeskip. Your focusing more on fighting than character on how and why he fights.
What dance moves? He kicking the same as he always been. Doubt he want lasers as well since he be telling Usopp and Franky how to design it from his mindset, not theirs. Again your emotional feelings are showing more than actual facts that happened.
He also heal people and fight in those arcs. Idk where you getting at Chopper. The only thing he is lacking is his fights, but that soon to be changing especially in this arc. His transformation are more monster-like than cut than before as if you compare both, he is more dangerous looking in timeskip appearance especially getting hold of Monster Point now.
I defend what is right and make sense. There are points where I can agree against Oda, but not your arguments which is more emotional than concrete facts. Your post is bluntly obvious about that. I get what a fan is, but a fan don't use their personal emotions and standards on saying the series is 'bad', but their own standards instead of how Oda writes it. Your not doing that right at all.
Sanji 'hate' is only by minority (Zoro fans at most) who make it vocal, but it's really not a issue and from the reactions of Sanji past chapters, no one is hating him or see him that hard. Chopper while I understand mixed reaction, but it's more he isn't' fighting much, but still the goal on being a doctor is showing and fans are grateful on him aiming for his dream more. So the 'hate' is nonsense as it's hardly to that point.
Again all your opinion than majority as I also been following it since that time around and so far it's not that bad and Oda isn't losing his touch in the slightest. There is a difference on fair criticism and biased criticism especially by personal feelings on how you think story should go. You can't critic like that as you lose points on others wanting to debate or hear you out. You gotta be more fair than overly hate if it's not your way is what I am telling you.
Again, your words, not majority as majority of OP fans are still loving it and enjoying it so far. Your stating non-facts, just opinions of your own. Can't take them as facts that everyone feel the same about it. Get me?
@Ice King You have a point about Chopper's Monster form, the way he behaves now is just lowering his hype. It could have been handled in a better way, even if he has it under control now I think speaking and smiling should have been left out from that form. It's enough that he distinguishes friend from a foe and still keeps that monstrosity but I hope we can see that again once he spends more than 3 minutes in that form.
Wondering if Oda would pull something like Amaterasu(Naruto) as a possible power-up for Sanji. Giving Diable Jambe a second stage with a higher temperature, possibly dangerous for Sanji as well, which sets the enemy on fire upon contact and it cannot be extinguished or doable with greater effort...
I don't think it reach that lvls, but I do understand Chopper has been lacking fights, but his Monster Point still beast as when he struggles against Big Mom is something we like to see more in that form in showing more badass and monster moments, so hopefully Chopper get his dues more in fighting in the Wano arc since they facing Zoan fighters and he can be look upon on dealing with them more or possibly they found out his Rumble Ball medicine and try to make use for their crew and thus try to capture him. A lot of ways for Chopper getting into a fight and can see him handling perhaps a Top 6 Headliner as his final fight opponent or maybe even Jack (Though possibly teamwork with Zou Leaders).
Pretty sure others made the theory that RS will lead to that as looking at the suit Stealth "Black", it gives more reason it could change into black flames especially Sanji use Armament Haki to harden his legs as he strikes to increase it turning to black flames. Though also it can go blue flames as said fire gets hotter, it changes color and highest point it become bluish, so Sanji with blue flames will be something to see from his end as well. Plus can be use as a foreshadowing or hint to his dream of "All Blue" still apparent to him.
The biggest gripe with Sanji is that his fandom is split into warring factions..1 Side isnt satisfied with Sanji's fights, his character development during his own personal history/background arc, and his "forced" actions during that arc..until lately Sanji wasnt impressing us, as we were waiting to see his full prowness, which its seems we did get somewhat, but he's received I guess a much needed power up.
Now the other half of the fandom, imo is a lil delusional and bias to the context, lack of feats and evidence otherwise to prove Sanji has been kicking ass on all fronts last few arcs when hes only very surprisingly preforming mediocre. They downplay the brief showdown with Vergo who fractured Sanji's shin bone with haki, to Sanji was injured before during mami's control. Then there's the whole beating up Luffy thing, which the other side says he was forcdd and his hands weee tied. He was ready to marry pudding to be left looking stupid after figuring out BM pirates goals. Reasoning again is similar to above, also saving Biratte resteraunt. With no 1 v 1, and only a speed feat against Oven, and Observation feat against Katakuri. To try to rescue Luffy and be saved by his Family the Vinsmokes. The argument there is that he was surrounded by dozens of the BM pirates, which is true..
However the divide is only about the past arc, I'm so over it, we are all entitles to our opinions and perceptions.
Currently Sanji is pretty fricking dope, but like i said I feel as no arc is a lil too fast, so Sanji Vinsmoke as his wanted poster says is dumb for thinking that No1 will recognize him in a raid lol..The suits abilities are dope asf tho, and Page1 obviously got spanked by Sanji with it. Let's just hope Sanji starts to put in that pain again
Not really split. From what I seen, those who argue and try to downplay him are outside of the Sanji community, preferably mostly Zoro fans due to the characters' rivalry. The Sanji fandom isn't in that deep of problems as they just fighting back another fanbase.
Also what you mean? There been stated many times on reasons why Sanji have a rough time with Vergo. Did you not reread early chapters on his body was switch and use with Nami's body and thus use inaccurately by her and thus his body was sore once switch back by Law? When switch back, Nami slapped him hard and Usopp comments on how easily he went down from it, showing he wasn't 100% just yet. It's not excuses, it's canon fact. Also the argument on broken bones in OP has been destroyed for years as if Usopp and Harjudan can defeat someone with their bones even more mess up, Sanji can do the same. Them using it as a excuse to say he is 'weak' is poor as hell.
Who injured Sanji during Mama's control? He defeated a lot of BM pirates as well Yonji (While RS) and hold his own with Daifuku and Oven, he didn't take no loss from BM Pirate once. Sanji's character was being worked and dealing with a tough time with many things around him, so Pudding was a source for him since she was nice to him at and so on. Also it's not a bad thing since later on, she falls in love with him, so this turn out great due to his character winning her heart. It would agree with you if her character stays bad in the end, but since it didn't, that's point for Sanji able to change someone like he did before with Viola.
These aren't excuse, it's canon facts and make sense. The side that 'hates' Sanji come up with weak excuses and argument like "Oda hates Sanji" or "This is the end of Sanji being a fighter" as they care more on fights, than character. Those were pointless and made no sense. That shows that minority didn't understand the arc at all. Joy Boy, Mr Morj, and Craftsdwarf explained the arc in full detail and make sense to the point some changes their mind and now understand why things went the way they were. Fans need to work on understand a story than worrying about fighting 24/7 cause the arc isn't made to be that way from the beginning. This isn't DB series, so don't act mad if you don't get fighting as much as the argument saying "It's a Battle Shounen, so I expect fights" isn't good enough as yes, all Shounen will have their fights, but that doesn't mean it's their 'main point' alone as Shounen can mean more than just fight-related in the end.
He makes point of being recognize as no one would in RS Suit as he change things dramatically of his appearance, so he brings good point over it. Pretty sure Sanji fighting again as he face to fight off YC of Queen or King down the line. This arc will be pretty fight-oriented due to so many forces around, so expect a big war in Wano here.
Pretty sure others made the theory that RS will lead to that as looking at the suit Stealth "Black", it gives more reason it could change into black flames especially Sanji use Armament Haki to harden his legs as he strikes to increase it turning to black flames. Though also it can go blue flames as said fire gets hotter, it changes color and highest point it become bluish, so Sanji with blue flames will be something to see from his end as well.
I don't think it reach that lvls, but I do understand Chopper has been lacking fights, but his Monster Point still beast as when he struggles against Big Mom is something we like to see more in that form in showing more badass and monster moments, so hopefully Chopper get his dues more in fighting in the Wano arc since they facing Zoan fighters and he can be look upon on dealing with them more or possibly they found out his Rumble Ball medicine and try to make use for their crew and thus try to capture him. A lot of ways for Chopper getting into a fight and can see him handling perhaps a Top 6 Headliner as his final fight opponent or maybe even Jack (Though possibly teamwork with Zou Leaders).
Well Chopper is a Zoan as well so this is a time and place for him to show how well he fares against similar combatants.
His Monster form looked far better when he was a raging monster and I bet it will reappear again since 3 minutes ain't much time when battling Zoan opponents who can take lots of damage.
To be honest, I think Oda dislikes Sanji. At least, there's credence for it now somewhat.
My issue with the Raid Suit is this:
Everything that it does besides increasing durability is redundant without invisibility.
To me, if Page One knew where Sanji was, I couldn't confidently say that Sanji wins easily. Sanji vs. Page One wasn't a fight to me. It was literally this:
Page One standing on the spot because he didn't know where Sanji was and more or less became a sitting duck to be hit. Every time he got hit, it was because Page One had no idea where he was or assumed him dead. This gave Sanji the opportunity to charge his attacks even further to make them more powerful.
If Sanji couldn't be invisible:
Ok, so Sanji can accelerate with the boosters, who knows whether Page One is as fast or faster?
If Sanji came to attack and Page One could see him, who can say Page One wouldn't have blocked it?
How much competitive would have been Page One? Would it have been a very difficult battle?
We never really got to see what Page One could do because he had no idea where his opponent was.
My point is what happens if Sanji faces an opponent that isn't tricked by the fact he's Invisible and actually engages him? That's surely bound to happen soon. Someone that can dodge attacks and such and isn't handicapped by invisibility. The suit becomes literally useless.
I'd rather Oda just made Sanji outright stronger without the suit. The suit should only be used when he is going to spy and such in my opinion. Sanji deserves a buff in strength, so people don't credit his victories to his suit or Germa.
Latest episode, I never noticed that Sanji used Hardened Armament. My problem with this is that when I look at the Manga, it's almost impossible to tell. Why didn't Oda at least highlight this? It's a big deal. He's made Sanji look like a joke since the time-skip. I hope Wano will prove all this wrong and hopefully without the suit.
I haven't seen such theory yet and I didn't mean the flames to turn black but to be inextinguishable or doable but very hard...
Well Chopper is a Zoan as well so this is a time and place for him to show how well he fares against similar combatants.
His Monster form looked far better when he was a raging monster and I bet it will reappear again since 3 minutes ain't much time when battling Zoan opponents who can take lots of damage.
It's on around Youtube and I think other websites. You should check around to hear their theories about it.
It will have more spotlight and possibly new transformation and maybe another version of Monster Point like how Luffy has different versions of Gear 4th on him that I would like to see. Get what I mean?
To be honest, I think Oda dislikes Sanji. At least, there's credence for it now somewhat.
My issue with the Raid Suit is this:
Everything that it does besides increasing durability is redundant without invisibility.
To me, if Page One knew where Sanji was, I couldn't confidently say that Sanji wins easily. Sanji vs. Page One wasn't a fight to me. It was literally this:
Page One standing on the spot because he didn't know where Sanji was and more or less became a sitting duck to be hit. Every time he got hit, it was because Page One had no idea where he was or assumed him dead. This gave Sanji the opportunity to charge his attacks even further to make them more powerful.
If Sanji couldn't be invisible:
Ok, so Sanji can accelerate with the boosters, who knows whether Page One is as fast or faster?
If Sanji came to attack and Page One could see him, who can say Page One wouldn't have blocked it?
How much competitive would have been Page One? Would it have been a very difficult battle?
We never really got to see what Page One could do because he had no idea where his opponent was.
My point is what happens if Sanji faces an opponent that isn't tricked by the fact he's Invisible and actually engages him? That's surely bound to happen soon. Someone that can dodge attacks and such and isn't handicapped by invisibility. The suit becomes literally useless.
I'd rather Oda just made Sanji outright stronger without the suit. The suit should only be used when he is going to spy and such in my opinion. Sanji deserves a buff in strength, so people don't credit his victories to his suit or Germa.
Latest episode, I never noticed that Sanji used Hardened Armament. My problem with this is that when I look at the Manga, it's almost impossible to tell. Why didn't Oda at least highlight this? It's a big deal. He's made Sanji look like a joke since the time-skip. I hope Wano will prove all this wrong and hopefully without the suit.
Hannibal....No, don't you give into this 'hate' thing too. Your better than that .
Oda stated interviews what he does with characters he hates, he doesn't do that with Sanji especially give the character his own arc and giving him the first out of everyone to have a major fight and defeat someone. If you think that is 'hate', then Idk what to say where your going for about it.
Fight is a fight, Page One being a veteran should be more aware than let himself guard down as Sanji still on fight mode and there no such thing on taking 'cheap shots' as if your not fast enough to be aware or notice where your opponent will attack like or from which angle, more your fault than theirs. Plus if we doing that with Sanji, we have to do it with many characters now if it's require 'opponent', but see you to fight off so which mean many characters like Kizaru, Doflamingo, Shiryu, Zoro, and so on can't have their more feats if they attack without their opponents noticing where they strike them.
Pretty sure Page One is down for the count as I mention in past posts above that if he was active, these events would happened:
1. Sanji will likely tell everyone about the situation and that Page One is active and to be careful if he didn't down him last chapter. He didn't say anything on that and thus it's heavily implied he beat him. I doubt Sanji will keep quiet about serious as Page One active around and not tell everyone. He isn't that type of guy to be that way.
2. Page One would be after Sanji if he never defeated him and be chasing him down to the others which didn't happened either. He would track him by smell as Zoan types have good keen sense of smell, so for him not to arrive in the chapter, means he was down and out.
3. If he was active, he began attacking innocent people and damaging more property around. Sanji again is not the type of guy to let it happen, so would stop him until the end. He doesn't really runaway from fights to begin with, so be more out of character why he abandon the fight in one on one standoff.
4. Sanji doesn't break promises, so when he and Law emphasizes the serious of situations and that they can't allow Page One to be about, I doubt the promise will be broken and that he didn't defeat him cause of off-screen. This isn't the first time Oda does off-screen bouts and we found about results later. Doesn't mean the opponent is active and about.
So in conclusion, Sanji beat him down and out in a fight as doesn't make sense why he wasn't in this chapter if he was active nor Sanji not telling them he was still active as well leaving others to suffer. Plus not one to break promises especially the serious of the situation of the planning and such, nothing points anything happened at all about it.
Oda probably doing that as the theories about the RS unlocking his genes that didn't happen with his siblings could happen and give him more power than before which is why I see RS as temporarily as Sanji can still fight without it, so don't see it him uing it the moment he need to fight someone every time.
Probably was thinking on the plot, he didn't have time to emphasize things as much. He even said he wanted to put in Smoothie's feats, but lost in the plot. So with the anime doing extending on the scene and by Oda's order, this confirms he can Harden his legs, but it's not like cheap or Oda doesn't care about him, as he does and just trying to find time to do everything as well plot. Sanji hasn't been that of a joke at all. The only lost he has was to Doffy, but understandable one. So far he been doing good and holding own with top-tier fighters and now have defeated Page One to cement that he can handle them if he wanted.
It's on around Youtube and I think other websites. You should check around to hear their theories about it.
It will have more spotlight and possibly new transformation and maybe another version of Monster Point like how Luffy has different versions of Gear 4th on him that I would like to see. Get what I mean?
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Hannibal....No, don't you give into this 'hate' thing too. Your better than that .
Oda stated interviews what he does with characters he hates, he doesn't do that with Sanji especially give the character his own arc and giving him the first out of everyone to have a major fight and defeat someone. If you think that is 'hate', then Idk what to say where your going for about it.
Fight is a fight, Page One being a veteran should be more aware than let himself guard down as Sanji still on fight mode and there no such thing on taking 'cheap shots' as if your not fast enough to be aware or notice where your opponent will attack like or from which angle, more your fault than theirs. Plus if we doing that with Sanji, we have to do it with many characters now if it's require 'opponent', but see you to fight off so which mean many characters like Kizaru, Doflamingo, Shiryu, Zoro, and so on can't have their more feats if they attack without their opponents noticing where they strike them.
Pretty sure Page One is down for the count as I mention in past posts above that if he was active, these events would happened:
1. Sanji will likely tell everyone about the situation and that Page One is active and to be careful if he didn't down him last chapter. He didn't say anything on that and thus it's heavily implied he beat him. I doubt Sanji will keep quiet about serious as Page One active around and not tell everyone. He isn't that type of guy to be that way.
2. Page One would be after Sanji if he never defeated him and be chasing him down to the others which didn't happened either. He would track him by smell as Zoan types have good keen sense of smell, so for him not to arrive in the chapter, means he was down and out.
3. If he was active, he began attacking innocent people and damaging more property around. Sanji again is not the type of guy to let it happen, so would stop him until the end. He doesn't really runaway from fights to begin with, so be more out of character why he abandon the fight in one on one standoff.
4. Sanji doesn't break promises, so when he and Law emphasizes the serious of situations and that they can't allow Page One to be about, I doubt the promise will be broken and that he didn't defeat him cause of off-screen. This isn't the first time Oda does off-screen bouts and we found about results later. Doesn't mean the opponent is active and about.
So in conclusion, Sanji beat him down and out in a fight as doesn't make sense why he wasn't in this chapter if he was active nor Sanji not telling them he was still active as well leaving others to suffer. Plus not one to break promises especially the serious of the situation of the planning and such, nothing points anything happened at all about it.
Oda probably doing that as the theories about the RS unlocking his genes that didn't happen with his siblings could happen and give him more power than before which is why I see RS as temporarily as Sanji can still fight without it, so don't see it him uing it the moment he need to fight someone every time.
Probably was thinking on the plot, he didn't have time to emphasize things as much. He even said he wanted to put in Smoothie's feats, but lost in the plot. So with the anime doing extending on the scene and by Oda's order, this confirms he can Harden his legs, but it's not like cheap or Oda doesn't care about him, as he does and just trying to find time to do everything as well plot. Sanji hasn't been that of a joke at all. The only lost he has was to Doffy, but understandable one. So far he been doing good and holding own with top-tier fighters and now have defeated Page One to cement that he can handle them if he wanted.
I also never said Sanji hasn't defeated Page One, as far as impression goes, I believe he has which is why we've progressed from it completely in the manga.
Sanji has gotten his own arc, that's great.
However, the bottom line is that Sanji has not showcased great fighting ability. If I want to see Sanji really showing superiority against anyone, it's sad that I have to go as far back as roughly 500 chapters ago to Thriller Bark. The fight with CP9 is probably still his best performance to date in my opinion.
I can understand why Sanji may have had to be represented in the way he did in context of the WCI arc, but in Wano, I can't say that I'm impressed as of yet. Oda can still do better with Sanji.
We really didn't see Page One fight, we didn't see what he was capable of in speed, or battle prowess. We saw him just stand on the spot and take shots from Sanji because Sanji was invisible. If this was the case because Sanji was fast, that's be great, but this is because of some piece of technology which is why it's a defeat, but a cheap one to me. Sanji didn't have to do this prior to the time-skip and I don't want this to really be a huge part of his repertoire.
Even if Sanji won, I can't say he won because he was stronger, or fighter, or because he had better Haki. The reason he won is because Page One couldn't see him.
We have people saying Sanji is as strong as a commander, but I personally can't even say he's stronger than Page One even though he won because of the way he won. I'd liken this to if Squardo were invisible and stabbed Whitebeard which led to his death, I couldn't say Squardo is stronger than Whitebeard. I'd have to attribute his successful attack not to strength, but to the situation.
Probably was thinking on the plot, he didn't have time to emphasize things as much. He even said he wanted to put in Smoothie's feats, but lost in the plot. So with the anime doing extending on the scene and by Oda's order, this confirms he can Harden his legs, but it's not like cheap or Oda doesn't care about him, as he does and just trying to find time to do everything as well plot. Sanji hasn't been that of a joke at all. The only lost he has was to Doffy, but understandable one. So far he been doing good and holding own with top-tier fighters and now have defeated Page One to cement that he can handle them if he wanted.
I don't know if I can buy that Oda didn't have time to emphasise Hardened Armament.
Surely, Oda could have just zoomed in on his leg and shown the Hardened Armament. I mean could just about entertain it if looked at carefully, but it's difficult to really make out, it does however look entertain-able.
I'll just like to see Oda make Sanji a bit more solid.
I dont think it's hate but it was labeled so by the fandom. Even for Oda, he surely likes some characters more than the others and the readers will notice that. Even the characters he likes he can treat unfairly and I think you confused the fans disliking how Sanji has been treated since time-skip with fans hating Sanji. Even among Sanji fans there are those who dont like how Sanji has been treated in the New World, others, like you, think Sanji has been great. Some will agree, some will disagree, it's pointless to argue it. I am a Zoro fan and I dislike how Zoro has been treated since time-skip and I dont think I saw anyone from Zoro's fandom who thinks that Zoro couldnt have been handled better. I am not sure why you are so opposed to the same treatment about Sanji when basically all the Strawhats have been treated shitty, except Luffy.
he doesn't do that with Sanji especially give the character his own arc and giving him the first out of everyone to have a major fight and defeat someone.
He got an arc to go deeper into his character yes but I dont know what major fight Sanji got. If you mean the off-panel 4 hits exchange with Page1, oh boy... It's the shitty treatment I mentioned above.
there no such thing on taking 'cheap shots' as if your not fast enough to be aware or notice where your opponent will attack like or from which angle, more your fault than theirs.
We have been over this already... It's not about speed at all but about not being aware that you are being attacked. Page1 probably never saw an invisible human in his life. It's not that he isnt fast enough but it's about that he has no clue that he is being attacked.
1. Sanji will likely tell everyone about the situation and that Page One is active and to be careful if he didn't down him last chapter. He didn't say anything on that and thus it's heavily implied he beat him. I doubt Sanji will keep quiet about serious as Page One active around and not tell everyone. He isn't that type of guy to be that way.
Not sure why he would tell it to everyone especially several hours later because that's when we saw them together, the next morning. Oda kept the fight off-panel on purpose and telling the outcome doesnt serve his needs for now.
2. Page One would be after Sanji if he never defeated him and be chasing him down to the others which didn't happened either. He would track him by smell as Zoan types have good keen sense of smell, so for him not to arrive in the chapter, means he was down and out.
Not necessarily. Sanji could have just knocked him out and Drake and Hawkins arrived and Sanji used stealth to get out of there. Drake is a Zoan as well so according to your reasoning, he could track him as well.
3. If he was active, he began attacking innocent people and damaging more property around. Sanji again is not the type of guy to let it happen, so would stop him until the end. He doesn't really runaway from fights to begin with, so be more out of character why he abandon the fight in one on one standoff.
4. Sanji doesn't break promises, so when he and Law emphasizes the serious of situations and that they can't allow Page One to be about, I doubt the promise will be broken and that he didn't defeat him cause of off-screen. This isn't the first time Oda does off-screen bouts and we found about results later. Doesn't mean the opponent is active and about.
If Drake and Hawkins showed up he would have no other choice but to retreat. Wait for confirmation.
Not trying to start another irrelevant argument, just pointing out the flaws I see in your reasoning. It's possible that what you say is what happened but it's also possible that what I said is what happened. Both scenarios are possible so it's better to wait and see what actually happened(Oda fooled us both and none of our scenarios happened, imagine that).
Sanji didn't even know about the invisibility option prior to using the suit. He showed enough confidence that he could deal with PO without the suit (let alone with RS on) and I think it was highlighted enough that he mostly needed it for disguise.
Maybe I'm missing something, but on this page you can even see that Page One noticed the upcoming attack. He probably couldn't understand clearly what was going on due to Sanji's speed but he seemingly noticed that something was coming his way and didn't react quickly enough to block or avoid the attack.
And on this page Sanji doesn't even turn himself invisible. He didn't need invisibility to defeat Page One. For some reason Oda decided to show us some of the RS's tricks early on.
I also never said Sanji hasn't defeated Page One, as far as impression goes, I believe he has which is why we've progressed from it completely in the manga.
Sanji has gotten his own arc, that's great.
However, the bottom line is that Sanji has not showcased great fighting ability. If I want to see Sanji really showing superiority against anyone, it's sad that I have to go as far back as roughly 500 chapters ago to Thriller Bark. The fight with CP9 is probably still his best performance to date in my opinion.
I can understand why Sanji may have had to be represented in the way he did in context of the WCI arc, but in Wano, I can't say that I'm impressed as of yet. Oda can still do better with Sanji.
We really didn't see Page One fight, we didn't see what he was capable of in speed, or battle prowess. We saw him just stand on the spot and take shots from Sanji because Sanji was invisible. If this was the case because Sanji was fast, that's be great, but this is because of some piece of technology which is why it's a defeat, but a cheap one to me. Sanji didn't have to do this prior to the time-skip and I don't want this to really be a huge part of his repertoire.
Even if Sanji won, I can't say he won because he was stronger, or fighter, or because he had better Haki. The reason he won is because Page One couldn't see him.
We have people saying Sanji is as strong as a commander, but I personally can't even say he's stronger than Page One even though he won because of the way he won. I'd liken this to if Squardo were invisible and stabbed Whitebeard which led to his death, I couldn't say Squardo is stronger than Whitebeard. I'd have to attribute his successful attack not to strength, but to the situation.
I don't know if I can buy that Oda didn't have time to emphasise Hardened Armament.
Surely, Oda could have just zoomed in on his leg and shown the Hardened Armament. I mean could just about entertain it if looked at carefully, but it's difficult to really make out, it does however look entertain-able.
I'll just like to see Oda make Sanji a bit more solid.
I am talking about you saying "Oda hates him" when it's is the least true about the situation. Not saying you hate him.
Sanji so far in the NW saga has shown quite feats in his fighting ability as he has defeats on opponents and hold his own with serious ones. Now he defeated Page One and it inserts it more that he can take care of himself and so far Oda hinting more that YCs are gonna be his future in the end. Pretty sure a lot of performances and best arc with fights is still Enies Lobby as many Strawhats have yet surpassed it except for Luffy alone, but this arc I can feel everyone will get their serious fight since they taking down a Yonko in the end as well Big Mom and possibly Marines are coming around too.
It's just started and so far he doing Sanji right as he defeated Page One, don't think that's off. If you mean it was off-screened, I understand, but it doesn't take away the feat he does from defeating him. Also again fight is a fight, so that how it goes as still Page One's fault on not trying to be aware than Sanji who still in fight mode. It wasn't so much he can't see him as it's clear it more so he was fast as being invisible doesn't mean he can't dodge attack as if he remain one spot, invisibility won't save him. So speed is a great factor to him against Page One.
You can't use the excuse because they didn't see the person attack fast enough, then it doesn't mean they are stronger and the person is weak for doing that. Kizaru is known for speed blitzing when others don't see it coming, so by that logic he is weak for not doing upfront most of the time. In OP fight is a fight, Oda would insert differences of fighting if it doesn't mean that way, but he counts it in as moment a fight starts in one on one with opponents, anything can goes in the end.
Also are you comparing Squardo to this? That's wrong example to use as these are enemies fighting, not a ally who betrayed and attack you before forgiving them between Whitebeard and Squard. You can't compare it with this situation at all as Page One already have his Zoan Mode out and can actually detect Sanji through smelling him as like the picture you shown, he notice his presence even invisible, so that inserts he is aware more if he tries, so more fault on him not trying more on analyzing the presence more before Sanji attack.
For the scene, I guess we could say he could have shown panel of him using Haki more, but still as Oda mention, he isn't one to do fighting as much as before and usually let anime do canon filler for him on putting things to his liking on situations, so if he gave the go on Sanji having it in this scene, then it's a go on him having the Haki and special moment. Doubt Oda will let them put something that would wreck how he write story later on in the anime. We will get more performance of him in this arc, but learn to have faith than thinking the worse on your review saying "Oda possibly hates Sanji' over fighting as the reason he does when it's not that.
You repeating what you said before that I countered as well saying the same as Hannibal I talking to. Not in the mood to do repeats to others when I already post what I said on the situations to others again. I already finished our conversation on the matter between us, don't want repeats as it feel like we going in circles with no ending.
The problem is you are not even considering the option I propose as a possibility and that can make you look very dumb in case what you claim doesnt end up so but it's your funeral... I, on the other side, said that your option is a possibility but not a fact. I pointed out flaws in your arguments but I guess it doesnt matter since you dont even take my suggestions as a possibility at all.
I can sit back and enjoy now watching you argue with Hannibal as our opinion on this matter seems identical so whatever he says on this matter it's like me saying it as well. I am sure you will make him give up sooner or later tho as you dont acknowledge the counter-arguments at all.
I am done talking to you on the matter. I consider possibilities, but the ones people are saying Page One is active I will not ever considered at all. I say my statements and no way he can be active unless those events happens and they didn't in the last chapter. Nothing to considered about it at all. I respect counter-arguments, but only if logic and sense behind them like how I agree with your theory on Sanji for Black Flames. I do agree, but only if it make sense on the possibility. Page One, does not have any backing into it at all.
You can't use the excuse because they didn't see the person attack fast enough, then it doesn't mean they are stronger and the person is weak for doing that.
Even Luffy said it: fight is a fight especially in the world of pirates. Flampe used her silent attack whatever it was called but Luffy never complained. If that's not Oda trying to convey his vision to us through the main character then I don't know what is.
There are too many tricky abilities in OP like Suke Suke no Mi (invisibility fruit). It's in it's nature to be tricky. You can't use it fairly. Same way you can't be a fair Logia user when fighting with dudes who don't know haki.
BB can literally disable your devil fruit. Is he suddenly using cheap shots because of the ability he has? It's part of One Piece. It was always like that.
Franky uses technology to his advantage. Kizaru blinded Hawkins. Was it unfair?
Also, we can't even argue that he himself will not consider it unmanly to use invisibility in a fight. He only used it once so far and it wasn't even intentional. Who knows. But either way I'm not seeing it as a bad thing. I'm enjoying Sanji's feats in Wano so far.
but only if logic and sense behind them like how I agree with your theory on Sanji for Black Flames. I do agree, but only if it make sense on the possibility. Page One, does not have any backing into it at all.
I never said flames to be black lol, I just said not extinguishable like Amaterasu...
Why do you think there is no logic in P1 being knocked out shortly and Hawkins and Drake showing up, forcing Sanji to retreat? It is definitely a possible scenario with facts backing it up. You are just playing dumb about it.
The off-screening is to me not important. I feel Oda more or less conveyed the results. Once the final attack was drawn, I didn't really expect more.
I'm not concerned with Sanji winning, it's how he wins that I'm concerned with.
He's being made to win fights by being invisible. It just seems like a dirty way to win and it really doesn't showcase just how much stronger Sanji is against an opponent. It just shows him getting cheap hits on an opponent that can't tell where he's at.
Sanji has yet to win a fight since the time-skip that can be entirely attributed to his speed and strength is my point.
It wasn't so much he can't see him as it's clear it more so he was fast as being invisible doesn't mean he can't dodge attack as if he remain one spot, invisibility won't save him. So speed is a great factor to him against Page One.
You can't use the excuse because they didn't see the person attack fast enough, then it doesn't mean they are stronger and the person is weak for doing that. Kizaru is known for speed blitzing when others don't see it coming, so by that logic he is weak for not doing upfront most of the time.
Being Invisible doesn't showcase your fighting ability or physical prowess.
Speed blitzing showcases your physical prowess. if your opponent can't see you because you're too fast, it shows that you're superior in speed.
Being invisible because of a device doesn't say anything about one's physical prowess or talent.
I think you've mistaken not being seen as being a form of cheating even if it's due to speed. I'm saying invisibility is like such. Again, it goes back to the RS. It's hard to say Sanji could defeat Page One as easily as he did without it.
For the scene, I guess we could say he could have shown panel of him using Haki more, but still as Oda mention, he isn't one to do fighting as much as before
Not doing fighting as much as he did before has nothing to do with not highlighting something that is pretty major in Sanji's development. It's just zooming in, nothing more. He's already drawn the scene, is it too much to ask to just make it bigger?
To even be certain he has actually unlocked it now, we'll have to wait to see him use it in the Manga more conspicuously.
I never said flames to be black lol, I just said not extinguishable like Amaterasu...
Why do you think there is no logic in P1 being knocked out shortly and Hawkins and Drake showing up, forcing Sanji to retreat? It is definitely a possible scenario with facts backing it up. You are just playing dumb about it.
Cause one Sanji would have told them about it. Why keep quiet on a SERIOUS SITUATION LIKE THAT (Emphasizing, not yelling)? Nothing in Sanji's character would keep quiet about it and would not leave a one on one fight until it's done as well keeping a promise. I am not taking your word for it as the logic for that make no sense there either. Once we get update on the situation if it proves to be my side, I don't want to hear from you again over possibilities like these with no logic or backing out of them when context is much stronger than pictures to you.
Your the only one acting out in this one and can't consider the other part.
Maybe hate is not the word, probably doesn't. He however hasn't shown Sanji much TLC.
The off-screening is to me not important. I feel Oda more or less conveyed the results. Once the final attack was drawn, I didn't really expect more.
I'm not concerned with Sanji winning, it's how he wins that I'm concerned with.
He's being made to win fights by being invisible. It just seems like a dirty way to win and it really doesn't showcase just how much stronger Sanji is against an opponent. It just shows him getting cheap hits on an opponent that can't tell where he's at.
Sanji has yet to win a fight since the time-skip that can be entirely attributed to his speed and strength is my point.
Law says the opposite though. It's not speed that was at play here, but invisibility.
Your context is off.
Being Invisible doesn't showcase your fighting ability or physical prowess.
Speed blitzing showcases your physical prowess. if your opponent can't see you because you're too fast, it shows that you're superior in speed.
Being invisible because of a device doesn't say anything about one's physical prowess or talent.
I think you've mistaken not being seen as being a form of cheating even if it's due to speed. I'm saying invisibility is like such. Again, it goes back to the RS. It's hard to say Sanji could defeat Page One as easily as he did without it.
Not doing fighting as much as he did before has nothing to do with not highlighting something that is pretty major in Sanji's development. It's just zooming in, nothing more. He's already drawn the scene, is it too much to ask to just make it bigger?
To even be certain he has actually unlocked it now, we'll have to wait to see him use it in the Manga more conspicuously.
Thank you for admitting that and he doesn't. He wouldn't go this far for a character like Sanji if hate was involve. Hate is what he does with Caesar as he openly admits he is the type of person who 'deserve' to die and payback as said in SBS. Lets not confuse character development or working on character and not getting much fights as "he hates the character" cause now we can say about Zoro who still haven't done nothing after going into deep of the arc that many said Zoro will be 'fighting like crazy', but so far it been the others being the move and him the only Strawhat and Alliance member not doing anything to help out. Though of course he is probably going to work on his character than him be about fights looking how it going.
He does this with a lot of characters though, but that doesn't mean he see them less important. Heck look at feats from Roger, Shanks, Blackbeard, but majorly they are off-screen. Does that mean he doesn't conveyed enough or don't like them? He does, but remember he can't do fighting for long as he likes moving plot more than soley focus on fighting which anime comes in to extend that by his order. We have to look it at that than our own ideals or we won't get how Oda does and scale fights.
Again not cheap shots if you can't learn to realize and notice the situation. That's your fault, not your opponent. So essentially you just majorly discredit characters like Kizaru and such for doing 'cheap shots' cause the opponents never notice it. Sanji has speed and strength and use that on Page. So far he use the invisibility, but it was out of mistake and testing than using it frequently. He hit him most times without it and more using his speed and strength get the best of him.
Pretty sure Law wasn't saying Sanji isn't naturally fast cause he is. Doesn't matter still if your invisible as if your not fast enough to dodge opponent's attacks, they can still get you. So it's more on speed than him invisible.
Don't think it is, I think your missing the point here on your wording that it affecting characters on larger scale than this. Cause Sanji still use his speed in the fight in the first hit and than last we saw on-screen as he was in the sky due to his speed, not because invisibility and then came crashing down to bash him hard. So still Sanji proves it was speed and strength to get the better of him and more Page One's fault on not realizing it.
Pretty sure it's canon as Oda would be upset with them if they did that and give him word on what to add on scenes at time, so if that wasn't the right to show it, Oda would have prevented the episode to area if he didn't have Armament Haki, but it was shown so that means Oda gives it about it. Though I get what you mean on showcasing more, but then again he mention in interviews about how he does fights which is for all characters, not just Sanji. Though he will give full fights in right moments or much as he can so as long it doesn't damage the pace and plot he wants to move along still.
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