Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[Franz]

Dude, of course. They are fodder-like weaklings looking at their personality and actions. You can't compare them with Sanji who take on Vergo, Doflamingo, Daifuku, Oven, and Page One.

Zoro:

Destroy Hody, Hyozou, Mone and Pica, cut a golem as big as a mountain, after being pushed to the ground by Fujitora responds with a blow, is sliced into a building with a knife.

Sanji:

He beats Wadatsumi in a combo with Jinbe, breaks a leg against Vergo, humiliated by Doflamingo, WCI gets beaten up by Germa's clowns, can not spread Bobbin, takes them from Daifuku, does not stretch Oven, is diminished by his brothers.


Equal right.

Dude, Sanji handle him majority of the fight before Jimbei came in much, still a big feat as well pushing back a giant that size.

Actually they fought together for all the fight ....

Also stop with biased hate on not counting Page One.

First serious fight of Sanji in 300 chapters.

Not shown.

Pica doesn't match those in a Yonko crew and since Sanji defeated Page One,

With a clown suit, in one fight I miss shown in full.

Equal to the feats of Zoro.

No, never did. Majority have said Stealth Black looks cool and like it more looking it's design and capabilities.

I do not know which forum you usually attend, but in several I know I have disgusted this choice. If you like it, who am I to judge. But as a historical fan I find it horrible.

Kinda does as we seen gags where Nami can hurt Luffy despite no Haki, so you don't take them seriously as it's all apart of that. Idk why your taking it that serious if it make be funny and plus you have to realize while he is '17' technically, he still a kid in Reindeer years,

It does not mean anything. The fifteen-year-old Chopper knows how to memorize medicinal plants and immediately knows how to cope with freezing.

The seventeen year old Chopper does not know that jellyfish should not be touched and can not cure food poisoning.

How disgusting.

And if you like the chubby chubby cuddly Chopper, again, who am I to judge?

So you want his identity be reveal and reveal the plan of everyone more as they found out Black Leg Sanji is also on the island and thus confirm further that the crew is here?

But ..... he showed himself in the face !!!! Again it does not have to do with the fact that he wants to hide his identity, but how Oda se the things up.

Oda wrote all about Sanji Post TS bad: he started badly, continued worse and the long-term plans for him were never ransom but this suit.

We are in a Shonen, a power up received without any merit and after doing nothing for 300 chapters is indefensible. Above all for a character who despite not being a top among the protagonists has always had an important role in terms of strength, where is the growth?

In two years he learned to fly, a bit of mantra and the Helle Mmeories. End.

They have stuck a story out of nowhere that adds nothing and has nothing to do with the Hunter. Finally it became a Sailor Moon. Using a suit that twenty chapters ago he said he would never use.

I think I said everything

But the thing that bothers me and sucks is the painful justification that Oda uses for the suit, not so much the appearance itself (which is still pity).

Oda already knew that no one or almost apart from the japanese would have appreciated such a choice, so what does he do?

- "I wear it only out of necessity, I do not want you to exchange me for a Germa, I hate them and they are ugly and bad!"
- It gives him the power of invisibility ... :

So readers will surely appreciate, Sanji has finally realized his dream, it makes sense.

Usopp, Chopper, Franky, you have a new friend to play with.

If you like Sanji Germa 66 it's okay but you can not deny it's a questionable choice of Oda, clearly made for fanservice.

What dance moves

He also heal people and fight in those arcs.

Figths? None.

Cure?

Two bandages that any doctor can put. Tell me one thing made by Chopper in the last 30 volumes of the level of Alabasta or Skypea.

I defend what is right and make sense

And who establishes this? As a reader with almost twenty years of experience I will have the right to say when something done by Oda sucks no?

Are we talking about emotions? If you like Sanji reduced that way, good for you.

But not for me. And for many others.

Sanji 'hate' is only by minority (Zoro fans at most) who make it vocal,

Nobody hates Sanji.

They hate how Oda has reduced it.

Again all your opinion than majority as I also been following it since that time around and so far it's not that bad and Oda isn't losing his touch in the slightest.

We see that we frequent different environments.

If Oda is perfect for you and all he makes is pure gold, good for you.

 

[nik87]

Cause one Sanji would have told them about it. Why keep quiet on a SERIOUS SITUATION LIKE THAT (Emphasizing, not yelling). Nothing in Sanji's character would keep quiet about it

Because it's not as serious as you think it is. Besides, they have been together for a while, we didnt see them meet and first thing Sanji would say I have beaten/or not P1. They were together and already discussing news from the capital. One flying six member more or less isnt that serious.

and would not leave a one on one fight until it's done as well keeping a promise.

He would have no choice but to leave if Drake and Hawkins showed up before he could finish off Page1. The trouble has been reported to Drake and Hawkins from the start and no matter how much Page1 screamed about Sanji's kicks he has shown to be very resistant to damage, expected from an ancient Zoan.
You also claim that P1 is done for. We have seen from Jack that he was trashed by Admiral+former fleet admiral+vice admiral and was back up in matter of hours while he previously fought the Dukes for 5 days. Then during the same day he was super-trashed by Zunisha and already appeared in Wano fighting against Shutenmaru a day later.
These are facts, you ARE (Emphasizing, not yelling) underestimating ancient Zoans.

Your the only one acting out in this one and can't consider the other part.

It's possible that what you say is what happened but it's also possible that what I said is what happened.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Rereading chapter 930 I can see that two things are being emphasized.

First, it's important not to reveal your identity.

Second, it's important not to get yourself hurt.

Sanji knew about the defensive properties of the suit (avoiding injuries) and he knew that he should disguise himself.

He did just that by using the suit and it didn't seem to me that he needed invisibility at all in that fight. Pretty sure he could deal with PO even without the suit looking at how confident Sanji was before even knowing that the suit will grant him invisibility.

IMO he could win "clean" but then he'd get hurt to some extent and won't be able to use his full strength in the final war. I think that is what was implied in chapter 930.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Again not cheap shots if you can't learn to realize and notice the situation.

There's really no point debating with you any further after you've said this.

Apparently, there's no such thing as cheating or cheap shots.

I guess we end it here.

 

[nik87]

Also again you blatantly ignore my point on why if he knew Drake and Hawkins, he could still have TELL the others in the chapter. He didn't. Your evidence is lacking hard over the situation as your acting like Sanji is some coward or will lie or not tell his friends anything in a sneaky manner. Idk where you get the possibility of this at all.

You got it all wrong and try to make it my fault lol. It's Oda who doesn't want us to know the outcome of that fight, he has a reason for it.

Jack is different and YC. Page One is Top 6 Headliner. Not same lvl. Also talking about down and out, not killed. Sanji and all Strawhats don't kill their opponents. That's what we debating here, and even if he is alive, he still knockout and that was the goal to defeat him badly and dwindled the forces which I doubt Sanji would break promise about it after making a statement about it.

And Sanji is not admiral/former fleet admiral/Tsuru/Zunisha... My point stands, ancient Zoans are very tough and recover very fast. Knocked out opponent isnt defeated for good and that's why I said that we will likely see P1 fight more in this arc, which you disagreed. There are 9 days to recover, more than needed, if he is defeated at all.

This is why I can't take your seriously cause your not understanding context and I don't want to believe your side. I won't take your possibility if your refuse to look at the context of the chapters to get what's happening. It's not about underestimating AZ, but it's about the context. Which you clearly not listening about.

You are refusing to look at the context. There was no time to beat a strong opponent like P1 because Drake and Hawkins were already on their way and the recovery from ancient Zoans IS incredible.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Never said cheap shots don't exist. Though your ideas of saying cheap shots is distorted as your now inserting a character must be away 24/7 of when a character on what they do next when that's impossible for a fight. You won't be able to predict your character's moves each time as fight can't be predictable, it be always unpredictable especially one on one fights. So again fight is a fight, you can't make arguments about 'cheap shots' in a fight.

I never said a character ought to be aware of what his opponent is doing 24/7 or clairvoyant, you've twisted what I've said completely.

• I never said anything about prediction, this is the distortion you've conjured here.

I said when your opponent can't see you to begin with, it's hardly a fight anymore. It's one thing to be too fast, it's another thing to be invisible. There's never been a time where any character was fighting with Sanji and asking where he was outside the use of the RS and that's because he's not the flash, he's just not that fast.

Sanji could have stood on the spot and done nothing whilst invisible, and Page One would still have been turning in circles confused.


This will be my final response as I know this won't go anywhere. It seems the crux of it is you won't accept that Oda isn't anything less than perfect. You don't seem open to criticism regarding Oda/One Piece.

Peace.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Chapter 464.

Sanji: That invisible man is hiding like the coward that he is.

We'll see how it goes but maybe Sanji won't feel comfortable hiding himself in a battle unless it's justified by the situation (like saving nakama). Or stealth missions.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

I dont think its enough even for Sanji to call it cheap shots for Moe to acknowledge it...

Well, even Luffy tends to make such comments facing difficult opponents. Like "it's that dude's annoying ability again, arghh".

Yeah, maybe it can be called cheap in a sense, but again Sanji used it unintentionally. I don't know if I want him to use it in a battle unless his nakamas lives are at stake.

But looking at the whole thing from another perspective pirates use cheap shots all the time. Even Admiral Akainu resorted to that. It's just that Sanji doesn't seem to be that kind of a guy, especially looking back at chapter 464.

 

[King Moe]

So @Pea, what do you expect what is next for Sanji? Anything in your mind? Don't let guys like Nik think the worse of situation get to you. We know how Oda writes, so seeing since he defeated Page One, do you think Sanji, Law, Franky, and Usopp be into it something else or stay low for awhile?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

I dont have a problem with cheap shots but it's not something to praise the one using them for.

That's a good tactical (strategical?) move for sure! Like in case with Akainu. Still dirty, though :c

All these terms are confusing me. What is a cheap shot anyways? Is Nami's mirage tempo a cheap shot?

 

[nik87]

That's a good tactical (strategical?) move for sure! Like in case with Akainu. Still dirty, though :c

All these terms are confusing me. What is a cheap shot anyways? Is Nami's mirage tempo a cheap shot?

I define it as being attacked while not being aware of it.
The scene when P1 notices something may be debatable since he did notice something but on the other hand, he still saw nothing. Once the opponent is aware that he is being attacked by invisible opponent I would not call it cheap shot anymore but rather as good tactics, as you said.
Not sure what moment you mean with Akainu but for example when WB is attempting to stop Ace's execution and prepares to attack and Kizaru pierces his hand, that's a cheap shot. Zoro's first hit on giant Pica is cheap shot, his first slice on Hawkins is cheap shot.
Nami's mirage tempo is not since the opponent is aware of being in combat with her.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

So @Pea, what do you expect what is next for Sanji? Anything in your mind? Don't let guys like Nik think the worse of situation get to you. We know how Oda writes, so seeing since he defeated Page One, do you think Sanji, Law, Franky, and Usopp be into it something else or stay low for awhile?

It's just uhm a forum. I try to avoid personal confrontation.

But as for your question... I have no idea! It's too hard to predict at this point (at any point, really ). My only wish is that characters like Robin, Franky and Chopper get more screentime.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2019 ---

Not sure what moment you mean with Akainu

I meant the moment when Akainu talks Squard into attacking WB. A dirty but overall good tactical move I'd say.

Nami's mirage tempo is not since the opponent is aware of being in combat with her.

But isn't it the same with PO?

 

[nik87]

I meant the moment when Akainu talks Squard into attacking WB. A dirty but overall good tactical move I'd say.

I would not attach the cheap shot to Akainu but to Squardo. Akainu definitely played dirty but he didnt land the cheap shot.

But isn't it the same with PO?

It's not because Page1 wasn't aware of being in combat with an invisible human.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

I would not attach the cheap shot to Akainu but to Squardo. Akainu definitely played dirty but he didnt land the cheap shot.

My point is that the alliance is currently focused on the big war. So in the grand scheme of things it is a good decision to quietly reduce enemy's strength.

Even with cheap shots taking place. Even Luffy agreed with Capone's plan to kill BM with poisonous missiles. Not exactly what you would call a fair battle.

It's not because Page1 wasn't aware of being in combat with an invisible human.

Kalifa wasn't aware of being in combat with someone who can create mirages either.

 

[King Moe]

My point is that the alliance is currently focused on the big war. So in the grand scheme of things it is a good decision to quietly reduce enemy's strength.

Even with cheap shots taking place. Even Luffy agreed with Capone's plan to kill BM with poisonous missiles. Not exactly what you would call a fair battle.



Kalifa wasn't aware of being in combat with someone who can create mirages either.

That why fight is a fight. Cheap shots aren't what you say as it more you must be fully aware of your opponent to the end until you knockout them out or kill them visible on your view. If you get hit thinking you defeated them, It's your fought as you must be more aware. Anything goes in one on one fight in the end.

Doesn't seem Nik is aware of that and choose ignore of other characters even in Zoro's fights that he can't admit fully about especially Zoro vs Pica one.

 

[nik87]

Kalifa wasn't aware of being in combat with someone who can create mirages either.

She still was looking at multiple Nami's in front of her so she was aware of being attacked by a mirage technique.
PageOne, however, wasn't aware of being under attack during all 4 hits that Sanji landed. Just because Moe doesnt like them doesnt mean they are not cheap shots.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2019 ---

Doesn't seem Nik is aware of that and choose biasedly ignore of other characters even in Zero's fights that he can't admit fully about especially Zoro vs Pica one.

Doesnt seem that you understand what cheap shot is in the first place that's why you repeat this line.
From the moment of first hit, Pica is aware that he is being attacked and thus it's no longer a cheap shot. But sure, go ahead, keep repeating it but it isnt helping your arguments.

 

[King Moe]

So Sanji defeated Page One due to heavy supporting evidence. Oda is putting him ahead of Zoro more than others realize. Wonder what Oda will do with Zoro as he need to catch up unless get fall behind the others and such.

Next fight I can see Sanji vs Drake as groups might get close again, but still would love Law and Sanji vs Hawkins and Drake as don't get team up fights as cool as this one.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

That why fight is a fight. Cheap shots aren't what you say as it more you must be fully aware of your opponent to the end until you knockout them out or kill them visible on your view. If you get hit thinking you defeated them, It's your fought as you must be more aware. Anything goes in one on one fight in the end.

Remember back in Punk Hazard Zoro warned Luffy that in the New World you are never to let your guard down? That's kinda how this is. Albeit even top tier monsters like Big Mom sometimes act with unpreparedness.

Rayleigh taught Luffy about dodging instinctively. Kinda reminds me of Toriko in the Gourmet World where you have to have your guard up 24/7 or else you're pretty much dead before you know it.

PO thought he defeated Sanji in one hit. He was dumb at the end of the day.

Check the second panel on this page, Sanji straight up "teleported" himself on the roof in a moment and PO was surprised to see him there. Sanji was way too fast for PO IMO with or without invisibility. PO seems to lack in speed department IMO.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 27, 2019 ---

...all 4 hits that Sanji landed.

I counted three .

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I dont have a problem with cheap shots but it's not something to praise the one using them for.

This is my issue with how Oda is handling Sanji.

Just to get 2 things clear, there's 2 way to fight imo:

• Competitive fighting: A fight where both characters exchange blows under similar circumstances and the winner is determined solely by no factors other than strength, speed and haki.
• Non-Competitive fighting: Where strength, speed and Haki do not determine the winner in a competitive exchange with similar circumstances shared by both fighters.

Like you said, nothing wrong with cheap shots or avoiding competitive fighting. It however doesn't let the reader know who is stronger because it's a circumstantial victory for the most part.

While Sanji didn't intend to become invisible. I think Sanji's fight with Page One (even if not intentional) is not competitive fighting because there's no exchange because the circumstances are not the same. We can't say he won because he was faster than Page One or he hit harder than Page One.

Who would be satisfied if Luffy and Zoro won their fights under the exact conditions that Sanji won Page One?

Before the time-skip, all of Sanji's fights were competitive; since the skip, Sanji's gotten the short end of the stick. Now, Oda's had him become invisible to win fights like this which to me, is a downgrade from what his character was. If a fight isn't competitive especially for the the M3, it's a cheap victory.

Granted, this is just 1 fight, but I hope Sanji doesn't win his next fights without being competitive, otherwise, it's just not satisfactory. The RS is great, but it's taking the wind out of his sails as a competitive fighter. This is how characters like Usopp win their fights. Sanji shouldn't be relegated to that.

 

[King Moe]

This is my issue with how Oda is handling Sanji.

Just to get 2 things clear, there's 2 way to fight imo:

• Competitive fighting: A fight where both characters exchange blows under similar circumstances and the winner is determined solely by no factors other than strength, speed and haki.
• Non-Competitive fighting: Where strength, speed and Haki do not determine the winner in a competitive exchange with similar circumstances shared by both fighters.

Like you said, nothing wrong with cheap shots or avoiding competitive fighting. It however doesn't let the reader know who is stronger because it's a circumstantial victory for the most part.

While Sanji didn't intend to become invisible. I think Sanji's fight with Page One (even if not intentional) is not competitive fighting because there's no exchange because the circumstances are not the same. We can't say he won because he was faster than Page One or he hit harder than Page One.

Who would be satisfied if Luffy and Zoro won their fights under the exact conditions that Sanji won Page One?

Before the time-skip, all of Sanji's fights were competitive; since the skip, Sanji's gotten the short end of the stick. Now, Oda's had him become invisible to win fights like this which to me, is a downgrade from what his character was. If a fight isn't competitive especially for the the M3, it's a cheap victory.

Granted, this is just 1 fight, but I hope Sanji doesn't win his next fights without being competitive, otherwise, it's just not satisfactory. The RS is great, but it's taking the wind out of his sails as a competitive fighter. This is how characters like Usopp win their fights. Sanji shouldn't be relegated to that.

Not really, so far his fights have ended in interruption, he never lost a fight counting Doffy and Judge, but Judge uses human bodies in front of his attack, so no way Sanji would have struck bad as well anyone else who couldn't kill people in front of them to get a win. So far he hasn't shown 100% at all, so he has more to off as well with the RS if the theories about latent genes come to fruition as it seems hinted Oda could capitalize on that to increase his power and won't use the suit for it's own features (Probably won't use much at all as he told Franky and Usopp on modifications, hinting more he changing things out).

If Sanji want to use it for fighting, sure he won't do it as he won't be Absalom who use invisibility so his opponent doesn't see him as they fight. So far he didn't use it in his next strike after learning about it, so that means he won't fight with it to get hits and wins, still more using his speed and power in the end. Like Pea said, he probably use RS more for stealth missions than for combat use as never it implied he lack power and needs it, but can use it for espionage type of stuff like spying and so.

Plus it's not like the situation if you look with Zoro that without his equipment, he is helpless. He can fight without RS and doesn't mind to do so. The point of having RS is for disguises and spying, but never for power as looking how the suit was made, it was definitely for the former, so we don't have to worry much about that if you are. Don't think Sanji is one to do much attacking like that.