Canon Shanks vs Mihawk

[Lord Rayleigh]

Was I quoting you?
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1969106#post1969106

Well, I'm sorry that I got it wrong.

"Everything I know" WHAT?

I meant " Everything, you know ", not " everything that you know "

 

[Finale]

Hey Fox666 you quoted me saying "Furthermore he clashing with Croco doesn't mean Mihawk is Croco's equal. This whole war was a mess. We saw Corco clashing with Flamingo later with Mihawk, then again helping Luffy. That clash means a crap!" I didn't say that.

It's not a huge deal but could you edit it so people know its your words. Just so I know I'm not going senile if i look at this thread at a later point in time and wonder where that came from.

 

[Antares]

Fox666, see my posts below.

---

Schabrak,

You don't see them defeating Vista or Marco, just as we haven't seen him be in a sweat. What you believe and what's shown is something different. It's just a claim, as people siding on either Mihawks or Shanks side without seeing them go all out at each other once.

A measruing slash being defended[with no real contact of the sword with Joz] by a diamond man, with probably the strongest defense in the world is'nt suprising and has ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with Garp punching Marco and his Devil Fruit, which isn't defensive but regenerative. Did you expect him to heal the excact moment he got hit out of suprise? Stop posting such BS comparisons for the greater good.

BS? Kizaru's lasers at chapter 554 healed instantly by Marco, almost seemed absorbed, even. WB allies said in the first revealing of Marco's flame "He can recover from any kind of attack". When Garp punched Marco, it didn't heal, even after Marco reverted back to human. Which comparisons is BS? A fact about a clash is better than nothing. There is not one proof at all, in any page of Marineford war, make that in any page at all, that Mihawk is stronger than the rest of Shichibukai. That is fact. All blows against few Shichis and ex-Shichis showed that they were equal. If you said the clashes means crap, they are still a billion times worth as proofs compared to constant non-existant wishes and imaginations regarding Mihawk as stronger than any other Shichibukai or ex- Shichibukai.

To count Mihawk-supporting arguments on something that doesn't exist like "That blow against Vista and Croc means nothing, you just don't see the full extent of Mihawk's power yet, Vista didn't touch Mihawk at all while Mihawk is dominating, Crocodile was lucky to make that blow against Mihawk" do not even count as arguments. All occurences, facts that have happened, showed that Mihawk's attack quality was equal to almost each Shichibukai, Croc vs Dofla, Croc vs Jozu, Croc vs Mihawk, Croc vs Dofla.


---

hibar90,

The yonko power is balance. Their power and crew is equal to each other. WB crew for example might not be as strong as shank, but they have the so called world strongest man on their side. It's ok if you are buggy the clown, WB left him alone simply because of the crew that BACKED him up. Buggy could be a yonko simply because of his influence and reliable crew. I don't think being a yonko is a good enough evidence to display your true power.

It's because of their individual power that each Yonkou gained formidable crews, not the other way around. Brownbeard's not afraid of WB's crew, he ripped WB's turf flag because WB's dead, not because Marco's injured. Unlike the "swordsman" title which we never see being said by anyone about Shanks, Yonkou title signifies four most powerful Pirates who reign in NW. And the fact, the example of a Yonkou, is Whitebeard, the strongest in the world. Anyone facing let's say Vista or Marco, might defeat them in a 1vs1, but they are afraid of Whitebeard. That's a fact about one Yonkou. You can't reverse the main factor of a captain by a speculation that "maybe Shanks is like Spandam who can do practically nothing but order and underestimate and irritate other people, or Buggy who has new crews who are even more powerful than him for just comedical purposes". Every solid crew's relation with their captain with serious purpose in this manga, put their captain as the strongest. That is the same as Luffy's strongest of the crew. Blackbeard's strongest of the crew, now more than ever. Sengoku and Garp, two marines with highest influence and authority, are the strongest of the Marines. Croc's strongest of Baroque works. Lucci's strongest of CP9. Enel's strongest of Skypiea. Moria's strongest of Thriller Bark. Hancock's strongest of Kuja. And Whitebeard, an actual example of a Yonkou like Shanks, is definitely the strongest of his crew.

Mihawk, the strongest swordsman in the world, is one of the Shichibukai. And Whitebeard, the strongest man in the world, is one of the Yonkou. You have to accept the fact both ways. You can't argue "so what if WB's a Yonkou? He's the strongest man in the world, so he's special, so you can't apply this to other Yonkou". No. From the actual fact, actual example, Whitebeard, is just one of the four Yonkou. Until proven otherwise, then Shanks' status as a Yonkou to his crew is equal to Whitebeard's status to his crew as a Yonkou.

There is not one prove at all that Mihawk is stronger than the rest of Shichibukai. That is fact. All blows against few Shichis and ex-Shichis showed that they were equal.

To count Mihawk-supporting arguments on something that doesn't exist like "That blow against Vista and Croc means nothing, you just don't see the full extent of Mihawk's power yet, Vista didn't touch Mihawk at all while Mihawk is dominating, Crocodile was lucky to make that blow against Mihawk" do not even count as arguments. All occurences, facts that have happened, showed that Mihawk's attack quality was equal to almost each Shichibukai, Croc vs Dofla, Croc vs Jozu, Croc vs Mihawk, Croc vs Dofla.

Mihawk-idolizing excuses like "Shichis were different in power, Mihawk is the strongest of all, i don't get why Mihawk join Shichi while he is the strongest swordsman who can cut giant iceberg" have no proof at all from any fights involving Mihawk.

Mihawk's existence as a no.1 swordsman in the world actually signifies Shichibukai's calibre. Whitebeard's existence as a strongest man in the world actually signifies Yonkou's calibre.

---

BlackHair,

I have two questions and plz answer them:

1. Why do you think Mihawk is mid-tier class?
2. Why is Shanks not a swordsman?

1. I don't think he's a mid-tier class. I include Luffy as mid-tier. I think of Mihawk as a high-tier class.

2. I don't. I already state that i acknowledge Shanks as a swordsman. Yet i don't consider swordsmanship as his main skill.

"If you want shanks to be stronger than Mihawk than make Shanks to be not a human being" ignores simple logic that a human can't replace an animal or a tree or a genie, but you can master any number of skill if you're powerful enough. I already state that i acknowledge Shanks as a swordsman. Yet i don't consider swordsmanship as his main skill.

I believe you are influencing your judgement by Bleach and other manga. Where it is said that a captain is 10x stronger than a vice etc. One Piece is nothing like that. This war proofed that each high tier is about the same level.

Jozu, Marco and Vista are hyped character and high tier themselves. They proofed that they could stand equal against high tier such as Admirals and Mihawk. Solely of that reason even WB would not beat his top 3 commanders without trouble.

Also as I said, Oda is holding Mihawk for future plot. Thus he could not let him all go out. And since Oda declared Mihawk as Zoro's goal, it is without question proofed that Mihawk is high tier lvl. Only a Mihawk hater would claim sth different.

Furthermore he clashing with Croco doesn't mean Mihawk is Croco's equal. This whole war was a mess. We saw Corco clashing with Flamingo later with Mihawk, then again helping Luffy. That clash means a crap!

Also Mihawk can't be Corco's equal, since theoretically that would make Luffy stronger than Mihawk... After all Corco was beaten already. We know that in shounen the first beaten villains are most likely the weaker ones. But Im also not saying Croco would lose to Mihawk in 3 seconds. Even if Croco is mid-tier, he still wouldn't lose easy to high tier fighter.

I don't hate Mihawk at all. I too consider Mihawk as high-tier fighter. I just oppose the idea that he is stronger than any other Shichibukai, and stronger than Shanks SOLELY because of the swordsman title, while ignoring all other statements and titles and everything happening in the manga. You can say Croc is mid-tier but what happened? Due to his arrogance, he let Luffy live twice, enough for Luffy to find out his weakness. I think of Croc as high-tier level too. Luffy has this protagonist factor which makes even Oda must make biases and accidents for him to stay alive. But when it comes to other contests between chars, Oda's really objective.

There is not one proof at all, in any page of Marineford war, make that in any page at all, that Mihawk is stronger than the rest of Shichibukai. That is fact. All blows against few Shichis and ex-Shichis showed that they were equal. If you said the clashes means crap, they are still a billion times worth as proofs compared to constant non-existant wishes and imaginations regarding Mihawk as stronger than any other Shichibukai or ex- Shichibukai.

Mihawk-idolizing excuses like "Shichis were different in power, Mihawk is the strongest of all, i don't get why Mihawk join Shichi while he is the strongest swordsman who can cut giant iceberg" have no proof at all from any fights involving Mihawk.

To count Mihawk-supporting arguments on something that doesn't exist like "That blow against Vista and Croc means nothing, you just don't see the full extent of Mihawk's power yet, Vista didn't touch Mihawk at all while Mihawk is dominating, Crocodile was lucky to make that blow against Mihawk" do not even count as arguments. What is proof that the clashes meant crap meant no equal? Nothing. All occurences, facts that have happened, showed that Mihawk's attack quality was equal to almost each Shichibukai, Croc vs Dofla, Croc vs Jozu, Croc vs Mihawk, Croc vs Dofla.

I don't say captain = 10x right-hand person. I'm saying captain = strongest of the crew. Every solid crew's relation with their captain with serious purpose in this manga, put their captain as the strongest. That is the same as Luffy's strongest of the crew. Blackbeard's strongest of the crew, now more than ever. Sengoku and Garp, two marines with highest influence and authority, are the strongest of the Marines. Croc's strongest of Baroque works. Lucci's strongest of CP9. Enel's strongest of Skypiea. Moria's strongest of Thriller Bark. Hancock's strongest of Kuja. And Whitebeard, an actual example of a Yonkou like Shanks, is definitely the strongest of his crew.

Mihawk, the strongest swordsman in the world, is one of the Shichibukai. And Whitebeard, the strongest man in the world, is one of the Yonkou. You have to accept the fact both ways. You can't argue "so what if WB's a Yonkou? He's the strongest man in the world, so he's special, so you can't apply this to other Yonkou". No. From the actual fact, actual example, Whitebeard, is just one of the four Yonkou. Until proven otherwise, then Shanks' status regarding his individual power as a Yonkou to his crew is equal to Whitebeard's status regarding his individual to his crew as a Yonkou.

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

There is not one proof at all, in any page of Marineford war, make that in any page at all, that Mihawk is stronger than the rest of Shichibukai.

i think you should elaborate more on this statement , are you putting mihawk in the same tier as moria or croc , thats absurd .

 

[Fox666]

To count Mihawk-supporting arguments on something that doesn't exist like "That blow against Vista and Croc means nothing, you just don't see the full extent of Mihawk's power yet, Vista didn't touch Mihawk at all while Mihawk is dominating, Crocodile was lucky to make that blow against Mihawk" do not even count as arguments. All occurences, facts that have happened, showed that Mihawk's attack quality was equal to almost each Shichibukai, Croc vs Dofla, Croc vs Jozu, Croc vs Mihawk, Croc vs Dofla.

Based on that, perhaps Crocodile is equal to Akainu?

 

[hibar90]

@ Antares: there is a proof that "shichibukai" are "NOT" equal to each other. Doflamingo left the war w/o scratch and toyed with moria. Does all the shicibukai seemed bother with the war? Hancock didn't so is Do and Mihawk. Moria got an orgasm when he looked at Oars Jr. That's about it. Yes the yonko is most powerful from his crew. BUT. The difference between first mate and captain can be as thin as paper. And the difference between mihawk and shank can also be as thin as paper. That paper thin margin is what separates the "strongest" to number 2 or 3. The #1 swordsman can be a yonko or admiral if he wants. There is no limit. In fact #1 swordsman can be the most powerful man in the world.

 

[Antares]

Dark lord,

i think you should elaborate more on this statement , are you putting mihawk in the same tier as moria or croc , thats absurd .

Can you point to me any fighting scene where Mihawk hit a succesful blow to Croc or Vista or or any Shichi or WB top commander level whom he fought against? If no, then stating that it's absurd is actually absurd, seeing the scenes supports more than they were on equal grounds.

---

Fox666,

btw, in the manga it was stated clearly that WB's health has gotten worse so he couldn't even manage to avoid a sneak attack from Squardo. It should support that WB's ability was weakened. Furthermore, if old WB was still as powerful as the past (meaning Roger prime), there wouldn't be a balance between Yonkou. Facts from the manga is more reliable even than the database seeing the actuality. In the database, if i'm not mistaken, Shanks also didn't lose any of his power after losing his arm. I believe it weakened him even if it's a little, if not, Mihawk wouldn't lose his desire to challenge Shanks' full capabilities.

Based on that, perhaps Crocodile is equal to Akainu?

No, Croc attacked Akainu from behind and Akainu's magma head is severed, while we couldnt' see comparison between Croc and Akainu's attack quality to each other. We are talking about head-on collisions. Croc vs Dofla, Croc vs Mihawk, Marco vs Akainu, etc. From what i see regarding his fight against Whitebeard, Akainu is stronger than Crocodile since Akainu has beaten Ace head on, and Ace was equal to Jimbei, a Shichibukai. But as far as the head-to-head clash showed us, Mihawk is not stronger than Croc or Dofla. Those scenes worth more as proof than wishes upon a star about how Mihawk was actually playing with everyone.


---

hibar90,

there is a proof that "shichibukai" are "NOT" equal to each other. Doflamingo left the war w/o scratch and toyed with moria. Does all the shicibukai seemed bother with the war? Hancock didn't so is Do and Mihawk. Moria got an orgasm when he looked at Oars Jr. That's about it.

What was the situation? Did Dofla attack Moria head on? Or was it a sneak attack while Moria was surprised and gangbanged by Pacifistas? The panel showed a laser blast, which supported that Moria was attacked by Pacifistas formation on the last page chapter 581. We don't know how it would end if it would be one on one. And, secondary reason, seeing that Moria was previously defeated by Luffy on Thriller Bark, isn't it fitting how the Government think he wasn't strong enough anymore? The "anymore" showed that the decision was made recently. Had Luffy fought against Dofla first, we wouldn't know the result.

Yes the yonko is most powerful from his crew. BUT. The difference between first mate and captain can be as thin as paper. And the difference between mihawk and shank can also be as thin as paper. That paper thin margin is what separates the "strongest" to number 2 or 3. The #1 swordsman can be a yonko or admiral if he wants. There is no limit. In fact #1 swordsman can be the most powerful man in the world.

Yes i know the difference can be as thin as a paper. But, an example of Shichi with crew was Croc or Moria or Hancock. You can see the power relationship betwen Shichis and his/her right-hand. Thus you see not only how a strong Shichi has stronger crews and stronger right-hand, but the other way around, how a stronger crew and right-hand has stronger captain also. Like on a shabondy island, supernovas saw Zoro's capability and stated that it speaks of the Captain's volume. Example of Yonkou, the most accurate one, is Whitebeard. Thus until proven otherwise, not basing on "maybe arguments" like you suggest (great input for me btw), it's a Yonkou that was feared the most for his/her power, his/her crew is secondary matter gained because he/she is formidable. I think Old Whitebeard's range to Marco is near yet visible (i call it "one step ahead"), although there are ones who said the difference is thin (not visible like my observations), but i think the current range (Old WB to Marco, not Prime WB to Marco) is similar to Luffy to Zoro or Lucci to Kaku. So Shanks to Ben Beckmann (Who was able to threat Kizaru depite for a short while) was, from the captain-to-second example (even more from Yonkou example which is more fitting and accurate), has similar power relationship, "one-step difference". Old WB is an example of a Yonkou, which support my argument more about status of other Yonkou compared to his crew (towards even his/her second-in command). Which support my argument more about each individual Yonkou is equal to each other, instead of the "maybe" argument that each individual Yonkou "may be not" equal to each other.


---

 

[Schabrak]

Yet your forget, that Shichibukai aren't allowed to have a crew and therefore are accepted as such single individuals spreading fear into "virgin" GrandLine pirates. They may be silver medalists, but we don't know if those titles are still appropriate.

About "Akainu > Croc = Shihibukai = Jinbei = Ace"!? WHAT THE FUC*! Stop saying all of he swordsman are equal! That we have no proof of! Your argument is, that since Crocodile attacked Akainu from behind and by so it hasn'd shown him being strong, but Akainu killing Ace by attacking him from behind isn't? Ace and the admiral exchanged exactly ONE blow, one using a explosion of power, him dying through other circumstances has nothing to do with it, this time not even about dis-/advantages of two fighters, since Ace was in a half dead state for a week.


I came to the conclusion that it just doesn't make ANY sense arguing with you, as you are biased on Shanks, sorry I have to mention it again, but everybody else here would probably agree with that.


You put Shanks into a misterious "super-level", just because he stopped Akainus attack unlike most other priates. He is just lucky for having such strong haki, which nobody else but WB, Boa and Luffy showed to have.That makes him advantagous, but doesn't proof him to be stronger than Mihawk. Also reasoning that his crew is reason for him being stronger, doesn't make sense, just as downtalking Mihawk because of some panels of exchanging sword clashes. I would like to see Shanks fight somebody of Vistas class, but Oda didn't give us such. So stop pretentding, that his encounter with Joz or somebody else high ranking would have ended so much different, if we got no way compare those two guys.

It's not clear if Kizaru had really felt threatened or if it was a joke as always. Yeah Ben Backman could probably fight equaly, but that's not the point here, as we do not know how MIhawk would have fought him, proably like Rayleigh in his prime, as he seems to be his successor in swordman ranking, having a good match with the admiral,[ with every admiral?]

 

[BlackHair]

1. I don't think he's a mid-tier class. I include Luffy as mid-tier. I think of Mihawk as a high-tier class.

2. I don't. I already state that i acknowledge Shanks as a swordsman. Yet i don't consider swordsmanship as his main skill.

I already state that i acknowledge Shanks as a swordsman. Yet i don't consider swordsmanship as his main skill.

It seems we both agree on n1. So nothing to argue about.

About nr2, I don't understand why you are stating Shanks as a swordsman, yet expecting him to use other skills. Vista, Mihawk, Zoro and other named swordsman in the entire series never used any other skills besides swordsmanship. That's why they are called swordsman.

If Shanks doesn't use swordsmanship as his main fighting style, then he simply isn't a swordsman. That's what I meant by commitment. You asked me earlier for proof for his commitment, well obviously I don't have any, but I expect him to be committed to swordsmanship, since he once fought for the title "strongest swordsman" and since his battles with Mihawk are stated by WB as legendary. It seems to me that he had pride in his swordsmanship, just like Zoro has. Even if Zoro would lose a arm, I still expect him to maintain his swordsmanship. So why should that be any different in Shanks case? This is not a fact or anything, as said just my expectations.

Anyway, you are basing your "Shanks is not a swordsman" argument on non existing facts. While Im basing "Shanks is a swordsman" argument on existing facts.

You can say Croc is mid-tier but what happened? Due to his arrogance, he let Luffy live twice, enough for Luffy to find out his weakness. I think of Croc as high-tier level too. Luffy has this protagonist factor which makes even Oda must make biases and accidents for him to stay alive. But when it comes to other contests between chars, Oda's really objective.

Im sry Croco high tier? That's totally absurd. Croco was the the first major opponent! That alone proofs that Croco is not high-tier.

Im not a Crocodile hater, in fact after WB, Garp and Rayleigh he is my favourite character. I rly enjoy reading his dialogues, he is always talking like a Mafia boss xD

But Im realistic, the only strength he has is his devil fruit. His physical body is rather weak, compared to what we have seen. The only reason he is mid-tier is because of his logia fruit (intangibility). In the 3rd fight Luffy was poisoned and yet Croco was not able to match his speed and physical-strength. Now Luffy is by far stronger and faster as he was in Alabasta. Yet he can't match a high-tier.


Corco = first major foe = mid tier at most
Mihawk = one of the last foes = high tier


Going by ur logic Luffy is already high tier. Yet he was shown greatly outmatched in this war. Can you see past Luffy (<- less speed and strength, also no gears) winning against a high-tier after three matches? Like Mihawk, Kizaru, Akainu? Hell no!

According to my understanding the garp between high- und mid-tier isn't big. Luffy needs only control of haki and I think he could defeat high-tiers.

To count Mihawk-supporting arguments on something that doesn't exist like "That blow against Vista and Croc means nothing, you just don't see the full extent of Mihawk's power yet, Vista didn't touch Mihawk at all while Mihawk is dominating, Crocodile was lucky to make that blow against Mihawk" do not even count as arguments. What is proof that the clashes meant crap meant no equal? Nothing. All occurences, facts that have happened, showed that Mihawk's attack quality was equal to almost each Shichibukai, Croc vs Dofla, Croc vs Jozu, Croc vs Mihawk, Croc vs Dofla.

I don't get ur understanding. It's totally screwed up.

Those clashes means crap. This war was chaotic, like a royal rumble, hardly any 1vs1. Opponents switched faster than I can switch my underwear. Ppl can appear from behind, blind spots etc. Mihawk is swinging at Luffy & co, as Croco interrupts.

Mihawk fired a slash at WB, which Jozu parried. Though every reader was expecting a fight between those, they fought different opponents. Croco clashed with Jozu, Flamingo, Mihawk and he was also seen helping Jinbei, Luffy and Ace. Crco never fought any battles to end, heck all we know is that clashed. Seriously how can you put Croco based on a simple clash equal to Mihawk? This is ridiculous. The only 1vs1 was Mihawk vs Vista.

According to my understanding Croco though being a mid-tier, should be able to stand his own against a high-tier. But in a long run, he would go down for sure. And facing guys like Mihawk or Flamingo, Im not even sure if he can scratch them. His only strength is his logia, which is so far the weakest in the entire series.

Spoiler: Not sure if this part of ur post was directed at me. Since it seems you copied ur arguments a few times, while quoteing us

I don't say captain = 10x right-hand person. I'm saying captain = strongest of the crew. Every solid crew's relation with their captain with serious purpose in this manga, put their captain as the strongest. That is the same as Luffy's strongest of the crew. Blackbeard's strongest of the crew, now more than ever. Sengoku and Garp, two marines with highest influence and authority, are the strongest of the Marines. Croc's strongest of Baroque works. Lucci's strongest of CP9. Enel's strongest of Skypiea. Moria's strongest of Thriller Bark. Hancock's strongest of Kuja. And Whitebeard, an actual example of a Yonkou like Shanks, is definitely the strongest of his crew.

Yes, Shanks is the strongest of Red-Hair pirates. I never said anything different. So congratulation to him and you. Now what has this to do with Shanks vs Mihawk?

Mihawk, the strongest swordsman in the world, is one of the Shichibukai. And Whitebeard, the strongest man in the world, is one of the Yonkou. You have to accept the fact both ways. You can't argue "so what if WB's a Yonkou? He's the strongest man in the world, so he's special, so you can't apply this to other Yonkou". No. From the actual fact, actual example, Whitebeard, is just one of the four Yonkou. Until proven otherwise, then Shanks' status regarding his individual power as a Yonkou to his crew is equal to Whitebeard's status regarding his individual to his crew as a Yonkou.

I agree with everything. But what the hell has this to do with Mihawk vs Shanks?

Do you know the meaning of a Yonko? and what a single-man means?

Mihawk-idolizing excuses like "Shichis were different in power, Mihawk is the strongest of all, i don't get why Mihawk join Shichi while he is the strongest swordsman who can cut giant iceberg" have no proof at all from any fights involving Mihawk.

What are you implying? That Mihawk and the other Shichi's are Sengoku's bitch? Or automatically weaker than anyone in the MHQ and the Yonko?

There could be tons of reasons why they joined the Shichi. Kuma probably joined to spy on the WG, BB joined to get to ID etc. There is nothing rly known about Mihawk's past. So don't go asumming shit.

Also which part of "Oda can't let Mihawk go all out" is hard to understand?

 

[Ero-Sanji]

There is no proof for either being the strongest but should we take it on a metaphorical level than Shanks has surpassed Mihawk.

Shanks blockaded a two handed attack from WB himself with only one hand splitting the skies. Mihawk on the other hand was interested to see how far beyond WB was and he didn't even get close. Imo that's Oda's way of saying "you're aren't even close."

Nowadays Shanks is also often talked about together with WB as if they were equal like the time Kings Haki was mentioned at the war. Like I said there is no proof of either but sum it all up and Shanks is a little bit further.

 

[hibar90]

There is no proof for either being the strongest but should we take it on a metaphorical level than Shanks has surpassed Mihawk.

Shanks blockaded a two handed attack from WB himself with only one hand splitting the skies. Mihawk on the other hand was interested to see how far beyond WB was and he didn't even get close. Imo that's Oda's way of saying "you're aren't even close."

Nowadays Shanks is also often talked about together with WB as if they were equal like the time Kings Haki was mentioned at the war. Like I said there is no proof of either but sum it all up and Shanks is a little bit further.

So base on your argument, on metaphorical level Luffy who talked as he was equal to Wb should be as strong as WB and shanks.

If you want to talk about "sword slash", you can't go wrong picking the world's strongest swordsman. Jozu decided to block Mihawk slash that split ice all the way through. On metaphorical level, lol, I can interpret as Jozu don't feel his pops is fit enough atm to take that blow. He is diamond man, the hardest thing on earth. Care to guess what would happen if Jozu didn't block it? The least the same clash as WB vs Shanks would happen, and that's just the wind from Mihawk slash.

There are evidence that proofs Mihawk is stronger. But there are no proofs of Shanks being stronger. Being a yonko is too vague of an evidence. However, being the world strongest swordsman is as clear as day. And all panels/evidence show, so far, key word so far, that Shanks is a swordsman/sword user/blade master.

 

[Ero-Sanji]

So base on your argument, on metaphorical level Luffy who talked as he was equal to Wb should be as strong as WB and shanks.

If you want to talk about "sword slash", you can't go wrong picking the world's strongest swordsman. Jozu decided to block Mihawk slash that split ice all the way through. On metaphorical level, lol, I can interpret as Jozu don't feel his pops is fit enough atm to take that blow. He is diamond man, the hardest thing on earth. Care to guess what would happen if Jozu didn't block it? The least the same clash as WB vs Shanks would happen, and that's just the wind from Mihawk slash.

There are evidence that proofs Mihawk is stronger. But there are no proofs of Shanks being stronger. Being a yonko is too vague of an evidence. However, being the world strongest swordsman is as clear as day. And all panels/evidence show, so far, key word so far, that Shanks is a swordsman/sword user/blade master.

No based on my statement Luffy has the same aura as WB which e.g could be further explained by both of 'em having Kings Haki etc...

But setting aside all the "fanboyism" Shanks is the one who has prevailed as the strongest out of everything we have seen. I mean the boat destroying Mihawk did back in the day could also be done by Luffy at his current level.

Mihawk has impressed as well with the Iceberg cutting and obviously his title but Shanks has shown even more power by literally destroying a boat with only his Haki even though he tried to hold back. Now that's power to me. Then we have the duel with WB where he blocked an attack with one arm against a two-handed attack by perhaps the strongest guy at the time.

To me when Mihawk tried to see how far he was from WB I instantly knew that he was below him from his own words but I didn't get the same feeling from shanks they felt equal to me.

As you say it's not clear evidence but is your evidence bulletproof? Actually it's not, being the greatest swordsman does not make you stronger than every man that carries a sword. Shanks is supposed to be the typical Pirate and the typical pirate carries a sword and/or a gun for a much efficient offense as well as defense. To further prove my point what did both Aokiji and Kizaru summon while facing swordsmen? The sword is much more reliable weapon than you're fists. Anyway wasn't yassop the greatest sharpshooter? Does that make him stronger than anyone who carries a gun too? If not than the Mihawk title falls apart, if he does then you'll have to admit that he is stronger than Beckman, Roux and all other characters who have ever wielded a gun.

 

[Fox666]

Shanks blockaded a two handed attack from WB himself with only one hand splitting the skies. Mihawk on the other hand was interested to see how far beyond WB was and he didn't even get close. Imo that's Oda's way of saying "you're aren't even close."

No, it isn't.

Whitebeard did not use the Gura Gura no Mi in his clash with Shanks DOT

So base on your argument, on metaphorical level Luffy who talked as he was equal to Wb should be as strong as WB and shanks.

Nice argument

Being a yonko is too vague of an evidence.

And that's for sure.

Not to say that the difference in strength beetween the Admirals, Shichibukai and Yonkou is very small. Which makes totally possible any correlation of power beetween them.

However, if a fan thinks that Whitebeard is 20x stronger than Marco there is no possible argumentation.

 

[BlackHair]

Shanks is supposed to be the typical Pirate and the typical pirate carries a sword and/or a gun for a much efficient offense as well as defense. To further prove my point what did both Aokiji and Kizaru summon while facing swordsmen? The sword is much more reliable weapon than you're fists..

It seems you never bothered to do some research. I posted some facts about Shanks and his relationship to swordsmanship. By reading that you will notice that he is not carrying his swords for show.

Actually it's not, being the greatest swordsman does not make you stronger than every man that carries a sword.

No it doesn't. But it makes you stronger than any swordsman (those who are using swordsmanship as their main fighting skill)

Anyway wasn't yassop the greatest sharpshooter? Does that make him stronger than anyone who carries a gun too?

Where is that stated? Oda introduced Mihawk via infobox as the strongest swordsman, he also introduced WB as the strongest man. But nothing about Yassop. I don't even think there exists such title.

If not than the Mihawk title falls apart, if he does then you'll have to admit that he is stronger than Beckman, Roux and all other characters who have ever wielded a gun.

Its not about wielding/carrying a gun/swords for show (BB, Roger etc), it is about commitment. If they are committed to guns/swords then they can be called gunman/swordsman.

The rest of your post regarding damage on physical objects, doesn't matter.

 

[Ero-Sanji]

It seems you never bothered to do some research. I posted some facts about Shanks and his relationship to swordsmanship. By reading that you will notice that he is not carrying his swords for show.

I read you're post and in it you say that they stopped being equal when Shanks lost his arm but Oda said himself that his power did not get less than it was before instead Shanks seems to have grown in power over time.

Yeah, I get it Mihawk was introduced as the greatest swordsman but that alone can't be enough to say that he is stronger than fellow pirates commited to the sword.

E.g how do we know that Shanks wants the title? All we know is that Mihawk was the one who searched for Shanks at the times they dueled. With this said Shanks, carefree as he's might not even be interested in the matter and thus out of the question. WB was introduced as the strongest Pirate. That doesn't necessarily mean he was the strongest fighter. He could easily be the strongest pirate by his own crew, allies and knowledge. I'm just saying a title is not enough to determine such a thing.

Edit:

I Think of it in this way(title):

Shanks = WB
Mihawk = Roger

 

[BlackHair]

I read you're post and in it you say that they stopped being equal when Shanks lost his arm but Oda said himself that his power did not get less than it was before instead Shanks seems to have grown in power over time.

That statement must have been referred to haki. After loosing a dominant arm, to be strong as before makes no sense. Especially since a arm is needed to wield a sword. Also there is this balance factor, not sure if Oda would go into that detail. But anyway, loosing a arm should affect ur swordsmanship and strength in general.

Shanks now > Shanks 10 years ago

Yeah, I get it Mihawk was introduced as the greatest swordsman but that alone can't be enough to say that he is stronger than fellow pirates commited to the sword.

Actually it is. We have no reason to doubt Mihawk's title. Furthermore, it's not only the infobox, but also the fact that Oda let one of his protagonists go after Mihawk. Why should he let Zoro go after Mihawk if he isn't the strongest swordsman?

Zoro's and Mihawk's battle is destined since more than 10 years (real time). I don't see Oda switching the strongest swordsman.

E.g how do we know that Shanks wants the title?

We know that both dueled in the past. It was also said that Shanks had (has) top-sword skills. But the most important fact is, Oda said they were rivals. Rivals are equals who are aiming for the same goal.

All we know is that Mihawk was the one who searched for Shanks at the times they dueled.

When was such thing stated?

So lets say they fought several times to draw. But Shanks is saying sth like" I have no interest in the title strongest swordsman, you can have it". Since he is carefree. But do you think Mihawk would accept that? Given his behaviour, I think he likes to fight strong opponents. Also I can' see Mihawk stating himself as the strongest without defeating Shanks at least once.

With this said Shanks, carefree as he's might not even be interested in the matter and thus out of the question.

Carefree or whatever. He has to fight if it's necessary. Otherwise he wouldn't be a Yonko in the first place.

WB was introduced as the strongest Pirate. That doesn't necessarily mean he was the strongest fighter. He could easily be the strongest pirate by his own crew, allies and knowledge.I'm just saying a title is not enough to determine such a thing.

He was said to be the strongest man and I believe most powerful pirate.

• The strongest man means his own fighting strength (manga)
• The most powerful pirate most likely his crew fighting power. (I belive the datebook) Basically that WB pirates were the strongest until they were defeated by the MHQ.

 

[Ero-Sanji]

@ Blackhair

I think you're misunderstanding a little bit, my friend.

1. Yes, Zoro is after Mihawk but the situation were Mihawk is actually defeated is not impossible especially not with Shiryuu around. Anyway since it is world cup let's make a slight comparison.

Mihawk is the world champion in football/soccer and has defeated every man that has ever faced him and thus he's regarded as the greatest football player there is. Shanks however is the only man who is regarded as Mihawks equal BUT he's is not interested in the world cup and thus he can never be called the world champion. This is what I'm trying to say.

2. The rival thing is a weak statement in my opinion. First of all Garp and Roger were rivals but they had different goals, exactly the opposite to be honest. Then we have Wb who wasn't even interested in becoming the pirate king. Exactly the same way Shanks most definitely isn't interested in becoming the greatest swordsman. They did duel a lot but it was always Mihawk who sought Shanks out further proving my statement, Shanks didn't care. It's also not Shanks behavior to seek people out for a fight.


Btw were does it say that Shanks has top-sword skills?

3. Shanks refusal of the title would drive Mihawk mad imo. Mihawk is(was) most likely committed into becoming the greatest just like Zoro. So if Shanks refuses to even mention the title it would make Mihawk wanna come at him all the time cause he can't "risk" having someone else stronger than him, as a swordsman. This also fits in perfectly with the fact that when Shanks lost his arm Mihawk stopped searching for him after he lost his arm.

4. WB was called the strongest pirate and that can mean a lot of things and I have to admit during the war I think there were a pair of people out there stronger than him in a fair fight. On topic, In the chapter 96 were we see then together for the first time Mihawk says this:

"I have given up thinking about fighting the one arm man like you for a long time."

I read it like it was Mihawk who generally sought out and fought Shanks.
A champ doesn't speak that way unless he sees a potential threat in his opponent or if that opponent is undefeated. So for me Shanks or Mihawk are equal with the slight chance of Shanks actually being the stronger one. In time however we will get our answer.

 

[BlackHair]

Im short in time, so without focused answer on quotes.

I think it is impossible for anyone else to defeat Mihawk in a swordfight. Because of plot reasons. Oda has forecasted that battle for over 10 years. A part of OP-fanbase is looking forward to that fight. I don't think Oda would disappoint them by switching Zoro's goal. Especially since it was hyped in the manga, datebook and in anime. Well in the anime it was even more focused and repeated (for instance ep.458). Thus I think in Mihawk's case it is not only a title, but also a fact.

About rivalry, I don't remember Garp stated as WB/Roger rival. I only remember Roger/WB (/Shiki) stated as rivals. Anyway, they were said to be rivals in the perceptive of the MHQ or any other outsider. For the MHQ and other, those two were pirates aiming for the top. Without knowing their true intention. But we learned the truth about them, so we can say for sure, that they were not sharing the same goal. Now in Shanks and Miahwk's case, they were portrayed as rivals in the datebook, by Oda in a neutral perceptive. So different from WB and Roger.

Spoiler: I edited a small summary, so this part can be skipped

Now about Shanks and Mihawk's possible past. I partly agree with you. Shanks might not have any interest in the title. However they fought, that's for certain. Now Mihawk seems to me as someone who likes to fight strong opponents.

My scenario: For his goal "strongest swordsman" Shanks was in his way. He couldn't claim that title for himself without defeating Shanks. They likely they fought to draw just like Roger and WB. Anyway, Shanks disappears and comes back without his dominant arm. They fight again -> Mihawk wins, hence he claims that title for himself. Disappointed in Shanks he lost any interest in fighting him.

Now going by my scenario I read in Miawhk's words: "I have given up thinking about fighting the one arm man like you for a long time." Sounds to me like Mihawk lost any interest in Shanks, since he lost a arm in the weakest sea. Thus he does not see him as his equal anymore.

By comparing the behaviour of those two, it might be true that Mihawk sought for battles with Shanks. However that was in the past. Mihawk already lost interest in Shanks, since he most likely defeated him. I don't see Mihawk as someone who shouts lies. He wouldn't consider himself as the strongest if he wasn't sure. Furthermore, that was in the past. Atm Mihawk is without doubt the strongest swordsman. About ur soccer example, same case, Mihawk wouldn't consider himself as the best without defeating Shanks.

Edit; to sum my spoiler part up:

• Shanks = Mihawk or Shanks > Mihawk
• Shanks has no interest in the title, while Mihawk can't get it without defeating Shanks
• Mihawk challenges Shanks several times, which ends always in draw or with Shanks winning
• Shanks disappears for one year and comes back without his left arm
• Mihawk > Shanks

Given the informations we have, I don't see any other logical scenario.

Btw were does it say that Shanks has top-sword skills?

In the datebook quote, which I linked you earlier.

Ero-Sanji, to me it seems like you want Shanks to be stronger than Mihawk, since you like him. That's why you are trying to neglect Mihawk's title for absurd reasons. We have no basics (reasons) to doubt his title.

 

[bittman]

Edit; to sum my spoiler part up:

• Shanks = Mihawk or Shanks > Mihawk
• Shanks has no interest in the title, while Mihawk can't get it without defeating Shanks
• Mihawk challenges Shanks several times, which ends always in draw or with Shanks winning
• Shanks disappears for one year and comes back without his left arm
• Mihawk > Shanks

I bolded the part of the argument I don't really get. Why should Mihawk have to challenge Shanks for the title if Shanks doesn't hold it?

Let's do the world cup comparison again (since it got used). Let's say Spain are #1 ranked in the world, but they've never actually played a game against Uruguay. Should we then say that "To be the best national soccer team, you have to go beat Uruguay"?

The top-ranking team/fighter/person/thing doesn't need to challenge anyone, they only need to defend.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of Mihawk > Shanks, but I just believe this argument isn't correct since, though they may have battled many times before, Shanks may have never been interested in having a "greatest swordsman" title and, as we can assume that they have not fought for some time, and neither of them have real interest in a rematch, it's impossible to gauge whether one is truly above the other.

Still, it's really just a title. For all we know this title means that you have the black sword or Mihawk's silly hat, because the silly hat is the true sign of the greatest swordsman?

I see a lot of "Well WB's title was 100% true", but then you'd have to say Dragon's "Most Dangerous man" title is 100% true. Does this mean people challenge Dragon with a line like "Oh I'm so much more dangerous than you!" and then they compete to see who can declare war on more WG islands than the other?

 

[Ero-Sanji]

Ero-Sanji, to me it seems like you want Shanks to be stronger than Mihawk, since you like him. That's why you are trying to neglect Mihawk's title for absurd reasons. We have no basics (reasons) to doubt his title.

This my friend is why I don't think you actually read what I wrote down. I said that they were equal with the slight chance that Shanks might be stronger or the other way around.

Then you totally neglect my soccer example and repeat something I have already answered. You said that Mihawk wouldn't stop if he knew Shanks had a slight chance of being strongest. Which is one of the things I have repeated since I started this debate. Read our debate and you'll notice the fanboy quite easy.