Discussion The Douriki Thread

afromarco005

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Too late ;). Thanks for saying my name lol. Though seriously, I don't really care to the thread and agree with Charge on how you rank them as a lot are kinda inaccurate by your personal feelings especially how your overshooting.
Thing is I said in the original post that it was just my personnal view on the matter, not facts just numbers that I thought were accurate.
I overrated the numbers true but its the whole point of the thread discussing what douriki we think the characters have, I will edit the OG post (and already edited it) with every suggestions.

Didn't Nami defeat Kalifia? Why you have her weaker than her? .
How does defeating someone = beeing stronger than them ? Thats bad logic imo.
Sugar was about to beat both Luffy and Law but she is nowhere near their strenght. She defeated Kyros too.

Nami is top human capability but still human so under 500.

Though if it based on physical strength I can see, but still seems like more your biased in this, but putting Sanji under Bege and Bonney along with others who we never seen do physical work much?
We've been there before moe. Bege is a supernova captain and is able to tank hits from an enraged 100% stamina big mom that would kill sanji.

Also following the narrative, and because they are supposed to be roughly on the same level I will aways put supernova above sanji and close to each other, especially if they are a captain.

Didn't Zoro lost to Hawkins? He doesn't deserve to be over him until further notice and you have Zoro stronger than base Luffy?.....Yeah, your not trying much in setting this up for sure lol.
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Luffy's base sure increased yes I agree and with gears he is the strongest strawhat, but lets give credit where its due, Zoro is a physical monster who could cut pica golem a town sised foe with multiple gigatons of roks in his base form.

Outside of Law with his hax DF we have no such feats amonst the strawhat. in base Zoro>Luffy for sure.

Hawkins nails this again why cant you help yourself? Calling zoro killing hawkins twice/beeing hit by nails and beeing just fine a loss and sanji unfavorable clashes a win? If its a joke its getting old...Or maybe you are trying to turn this discussion in yet another zoro v.s sanji but I wont take the bait this time.

Nah, I don't think that. Though only you would put Zoro over Luffy and Hawkins after his performance so far. You really did this for Zoro fan to make him look good when we all know he shown nothing in his performance or potential still. Nice try making power lvl topic, but its clear Oda uses more bounties than Dorikiri. That's more Cipher Pol thing and could be shown again when CP0 makes a move to the Strawhats later.

Got put personal feelings away when doing such topics lol.
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Big Mom was in a 'lesser' form though. That doesn't count. If she was full power, then it be something.
Moe are you really a one piece fan? Saying bounty= Strenght or power is just... plain wrong. I shouldn't even have to tell you this.
 

King Moe

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Thing is I said in the original post that it was just my personnal view on the matter, not facts just numbers that I thought were accurate.
I overrated the numbers true but its the whole point of the thread discussing what douriki we think the characters have, I will edit the OG post (and already edited it) with every suggestions.



How does defeating someone = beeing stronger than them ? Thats bad logic imo.
Sugar was about to beat both Luffy and Law but she is nowhere near their strenght. She defeated Kyros too.

Nami is top human capability but still human so under 500.


We've been there before moe. Bege is a supernova captain and is able to tank hits from an enraged 100% stamina big mom that would kill sanji.

Also following the narrative, and because they are supposed to be roughly on the same level I will aways put supernova above sanji and close to each other, especially if they are a captain.



Luffy's base sure increased yes I agree and with gears he is the strongest strawhat, but lets give credit where its due, Zoro is a physical monster who could cut pica golem a town sised foe with multiple gigatons of roks in his base form.

Outside of Law with his hax DF we have no such feats amonst the strawhat. in base Zoro>Luffy for sure.

Hawkins nails this again why cant you help yourself? Calling zoro killing hawkins twice/beeing hit by nails and beeing just fine a loss and sanji unfavorable clashes a win? If its a joke its getting old...Or maybe you are trying to turn this discussion in yet another zoro v.s sanji but I wont take the bait this time.



Moe are you really a one piece fan? Saying bounty= Strenght or power is just... plain wrong. I shouldn't even have to tell you this.
Still you admit you did more on your own feeling and I wasn't the only one who said this in the thread. Just saying is all.

I give you that. I realize that as I think about it deeply, so I can admit my wrong on that, but still some points are still out there from how your pushing it.

Again personal feelings, not canon facts. Just because Bege shown durability of handling her punches, doesn't mean in physical power on how he can enforce be same level. That's like saying we saw Usopp took a 4 ton bat to the skull and still kept fighting meaning his physical power is beyond any character out of it. Durability doesn't equal Strength and plus you seem to be forgetting that Sanji block a serious move with Luffy to save Reiju, so his strength really checks out among Supernova especially right now he is going to face Page One who is in same position as X Drake a fellow Supernova, so to say he is not at their level or can't get stronger, is more your feelings than canon facts your ignoring more.

We haven't even seen Bonney in a fight and you were putting her over him when we all know that's a lie and you got call out for it by others. If this is based more on physical strength then Sanji is very up there with Supernovas. Not saying at the top as #1, but he is definitely one of the top physical fights for sure.

With Haki on how he do it, not regular base Zoro and he had help on being toss at Pica as well, so not all his own power. Also I was talking about Zoro, not Sanji in this part, your the one bringing him in right now. Also killing him twice? Hawkins is fine losing lives. Law attack him and he did nothing to stop it. The excuse saying he took lives when Hawkins doesn't care when he even take out his own lives with a card predictions, show more your not paying attention on what the fight was and character is. The issue with Zoro with nails is not because he couldn't handle the pain (Though could use Armament to harden his skin though) is more so he didn't try COO before to block the small projectiles when he done so before with Hody who he did it with. No excuse for him as do you think Mihawk was there, it be ok? No, so stop saying it's not bad for him when it is bad for him.

Try that without no Haki on and help for Zoro against Luffy and we see who stronger in base form, then cause it's still pointing to Luffy being stronger than him still.

I never said bounties are perfect, but Oda does use them as to rate power level more nowadays which is true. You can't use Doriki much as it requires physical strength with not many fight using brawns alone. I think you know this by now, so please let's stay on track over this.
 
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afromarco005

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Hasn't it been confirmed Zoro always go more serious when bandana on and using Haki raises your strength to be more potent? Idk where you get the idea Zoro is stronger in Luffy's base form and good luck convincing on fandom itself on that, Lexus. Guess we agree to disagree on this.
There is so much wrong in this post I dont even...
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Please leave that OJ logic at OJ. It has bothered me from the first day I landed there when I saw them using the term "base Zoro". I didnt know there is another Zoro. Just because Luffy has gears doesnt mean Zoro is treated the same. It's just a matter of how serious Zoro is.
Luffy's gears always were modes with different utility, G2 for speed, G3 for raw power. You cant make a parallel to Zoro with Luffy's gears.
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That's that weird of logic of yours. Everyone can see it but for you its something new that fell from the sky...
I understand where you're coming from let me clarify

Zoro's Ichi and Ni Gorilla is a mode that increases his biceps and triceps size and his strenght tremendously. Ashura was introduced as a parralel to luffys gear and sanji's DJ.

What I am referring as "base zoro" is him fighting without those enhencement techniques just like he did vs Pica or vs Monet.
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The majority of the fandom DOES agree with me thank you very much lol

Lets get a poll in here.

Actually i'm going to start one up in the davy back fight section.
a poll what should it be?
 

King Moe

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There is so much wrong in this post I dont even...
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I understand where you're coming from let me clarify

Zoro's Ichi and Ni Gorilla is a mode that increases his biceps and triceps size and his strenght tremendously. Ashura was introduced as a parralel to luffys gear and sanji's DJ.

What I am referring as "base zoro" is him fighting without those enhencement techniques just like he did vs Pica or vs Monet.
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a poll what should it be?
Already talk about it with Charge, Afro. Got pay attention. Haki overpower can be seen power up as it helps with your attacks on different lvls.

Zoro uses Haki on Pica. What you mean that's base? He needed help to catch him and Haki to fully cut his form. There was even flashback of Mihawk afterwards explaining this more. That wasn't base Zoro and Gorilla stance was technique, not a new stage. Now your stretching out even his techniques....
 

afromarco005

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He fought more than Zoro and plus you forget he too Thousands of Shadows unlike him, so he was dealing with a lot more and while yes Zoro took the pain, he wasn't bleeding heavily as Luffy and damage look at both states, but do acknowledge Zoro's durability though.
Zoro and luffy before transfering the pain ball


after
You like to undermine zoro's feat but common no one belittles thriller bark's epic zoro moment in the fandom.
 

King Moe

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Zoro and luffy before transfering the pain ball


after
You like to undermine zoro's feat but common no one belittles thriller bark's epic zoro moment in the fandom.
Durability doesn't equal Strength. Never doubted Zoro's durability, but not his strength though.
 

afromarco005

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Durability doesn't equal Strength. Never doubted Zoro's durability, but not his strength though.
What I am saying is that it is implied that beeing a member of the worst generation means beeing strong and on a general same level.
There is a reason why Sanji isnt a supernova, that is Oda's decision not mine. Sanji is strong and has potential for the future true but he is written as the underdog in general and thats the reason we are rooting for the boi.

About bounties, it has been established a while ago that power level has nothing to do with them its been proven times and times again, Robin got a 80 mil bounty because she can read poneglyphs, Kidd had a higher bounty than every other supernova because he harmed citizens when we know full well that Ma.D Monk and Luffy were the top supernova at the time, so on and so forth.

Bounty is more a testament of the danger level one represents against the world government than just strenght alone.

Another example, if Black Beard had just his 2 devil fruit and his Og crew no armada no level 6 prisonners no territory then no way his bounty would be 2 billions.
And I am not even going to talk about Luffy's 1.5 B this is Oda laughing at those who think that bounty=Power level.

Now @King Moe what do you think The Strawhats douriki would be?
 

nik87

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About bounties, it has been established a while ago that power level has nothing to do with them its been proven times and times again,


Actually, it does revolve around power level or rather around combat abilities as Blue Pheasant explains it here, even for someone like Robin. Of course, it is affected by more factors and in Robin's case, he highlights it that it's not just her combat abilities but also the danger she represents because of her knowledge of Poneglyphs.
I argued this many times and I think I managed to explain it decently. Bounty system is pretty solid power ranking system but there are exceptions, the unestablished characters - Strawhats and basically all the new generation that interacts with them, also the frozen bounties of Shichibukai's.
 

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Actually, it does revolve around power level or rather around combat abilities as Blue Pheasant explains it here, even for someone like Robin. Of course, it is affected by more factors and in Robin's case, he highlights it that it's not just her combat abilities but also the danger she represents because of her knowledge of Poneglyphs.
I argued this many times and I think I managed to explain it decently. Bounty system is pretty solid power ranking system but there are exceptions, the unestablished characters - Strawhats and basically all the new generation that interacts with them, also the frozen bounties of Shichibukai's.
I understand however bounty is not a reliable power level system at all. Sure it partially depends on an individual's strenght but they take too many things into consideration.

For example Luffy doesnt deserve his 1.5 bilion bounty strenght wise he is not above (or not that far above for those who think he surpassed him)Katakuri who is 1B

Usopp having a higher bounty than Franky.

Franky not having a 100 M bounty when he is clearly stronger than most 100 M pirates.

Kidd having a higher bointy than Luffy during Shabondy.

Sanji's bounty beeing higher than Zoro's

There are way too many examples of bounty not beeing a reliable power level indicator that it's best not to take it seriously.
 

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I understand however bounty is not a reliable power level system at all. Sure it partially depends on an individual's strenght but they take too many things into consideration.

For example Luffy doesnt deserve his 1.5 bilion bounty strenght wise he is not above (or not that far above for those who think he surpassed him)Katakuri who is 1B

Usopp having a higher bounty than Franky.

Franky not having a 100 M bounty when he is clearly stronger than most 100 M pirates.

Kidd having a higher bointy than Luffy during Shabondy.

Sanji's bounty beeing higher than Zoro's

There are way too many examples of bounty not beeing a reliable power level indicator that it's best not to take it seriously.
Actually some of those have backing to them as Luffy defeated Cracker and Katakuri which last one have a bounty over a billion. So not like he isn't worthy of his raise, the issue is he didn't defeat Big Mom who bounty is still probably still higher than his. Plus how the arc looking on Luffy facing Kaido, he soon will be worthy even more of the bounty and another raise.

We never seen Kidd's full power in a fight as so far Oda has him with COC and able to fight and heavily hinted damaging Yonko Commander. Now he preping him as Luffy's main rival to PK throne with Law, so we can't say Kidd isn't worthy when we never seen his capabilities as Oda continue putting more info and actions he been doing lately. His bounty does make sense on why higher, so not mistake on that.

Sanji having higher bounty make sense as well since he clearly have power and danger to match it. So far in the arc Oda going to make him take out Top 6 Headliner and soon face Queen or King, YCs later on, so make sense and Oda still does see them as equals no matter the debate on who's tougher. He still see it to this day so not really a mistake.

Now not saying bounty system is always accurate, but it does relate to power most of the time while Dorikiri isn't that accurate more as its about physical strength when we know not all characters are physical strength all the time and fight different means in the end.
 
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~Charging Lightning~

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Sanji's bounty beeing higher than Zoro's

There are way too many examples of bounty not beeing a reliable power level indicator that it's best not to take it seriously.
And yet you seem to place every single supernova, whether or not they have impressive feats, beyond Sanji's level....You can't go around claiming that Sanji isn't supernova level while also saying that bounties are terrible indicators for strength. The Supernovas weren't given their name because of their power, they were given their name because of their bounties. It's a bounty based group that Sanji would have been apart of if a) He had not been behind the scenes at Ennies Lobby opening the Gates of Justice while Zoro was cutting down marine after marine and b) if Oda wasn't trying to hide his identity and save the vinsmoke reveal until after the time skip.

Sorry if this argument feels a little out of left field, but it really nags me when I see you contradict yourself like this so much.
 

nik87

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@afromarco005 I understand your point. However, all those that you named are those that I listed as exceptions, there are quite a few I know.
Looking at the bounties of individuals that Strawhats encountered and defeated it seems like a perfect power ranking system. When you throw in Strawhats into the mix then the system doesnt look good, that's why I exclude them.

I would agree that Luffy is not 1.5Bil strong, not even 1Bil but considering that Morgans exaggerated the story we understand why it is that big.
Usopp higher than Franky, I think Oda did that intentionally, whether for comical reasons or to make Usopp's lies come true...
Franky definitely deserves more, I consider him as one of the monsters of the crew, I am sure post-Wano bounty will do him justice.
Kidd for all we know may very well be equal in power to Luffy and it was stated why it was higher.
Sanji's bounty being higher than Zoro's is because Zoro didnt participate in WCI.

I think we should exclude Strawhats and the Worst Generation from bounty system if we want to keep it as reliable.
From Alvida's 5mil to Buggy's 15mil, from Krieg's 17mil to Arlong's 20mil, from Bellamy's 55mil to Croc's 81mil... From Snack's 600mil to Cracker, Smoothie all the way to Katakuri's 1Bil, it was a reliable system.
Strawhats and their generation are an anomaly because they are constantly progressing so it's hard to place them correctly into the bounty system.
 

King Moe

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What I am saying is that it is implied that beeing a member of the worst generation means beeing strong and on a general same level.
There is a reason why Sanji isnt a supernova, that is Oda's decision not mine. Sanji is strong and has potential for the future true but he is written as the underdog in general and thats the reason we are rooting for the boi.

About bounties, it has been established a while ago that power level has nothing to do with them its been proven times and times again, Robin got a 80 mil bounty because she can read poneglyphs, Kidd had a higher bounty than every other supernova because he harmed citizens when we know full well that Ma.D Monk and Luffy were the top supernova at the time, so on and so forth.

Bounty is more a testament of the danger level one represents against the world government than just strenght alone.

Another example, if Black Beard had just his 2 devil fruit and his Og crew no armada no level 6 prisonners no territory then no way his bounty would be 2 billions.
And I am not even going to talk about Luffy's 1.5 B this is Oda laughing at those who think that bounty=Power level.

Now @King Moe what do you think The Strawhats douriki would be?
I don't think everyone is same lvl, that's your assumption, not fact. Nothing shows that they are equal to each other at all as looking at performance so far on Bege and Bonney, they got nothing to make me think they could defeat Kidd or Law. Idk why you get the idea they are same lvl as just because they are apart of a specific group, doesn't mean all members are equal really. Also the reason Sanji isn't Supernova is due to coming later to join Strawhats. Luffy and Zoro already did their fairshare of trouble before he came around as to be apart of Supernovas, one need bounties of 100 million before entering NW and Sanji before he started causing trouble, was just doing some cooking, but even so he reach 77 million and was close of getting there if one more increase for that. Plus Oda is also the one who put him as Zoro's rival and will always been apparent give more reason why he is Supernova already.

Again, I already explained about bounties in my other post above, so it make sense why Kidd and Luffy have them. Bounties aren't always accurate, but they are more compare to Doriki that focus only on physical strength when that isn't not necessary apparent to show who stronger or fights with. Urouge probably got stronger after 2 years as we can't forget that prior he lost to Pacifista, so it's not inaccurate of his bounty back then and plus we don't even know how is his new bounty after 2 years later as could be bigger now.

Well from the latest info, it reveals that Yonkos like Big Mom and Kaido could have bounties of over 2-3 billions, so if it's the case, then make sense why his bounty like that and plus they probably see more destruction and power from Big Mom more.

What their Douriki right now after timeskip?
 

afromarco005

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Actually some of those have backing to them as Luffy defeated Cracker and Katakuri which last one have a bounty over a billion. So not like he isn't worthy of his raise, the issue is he didn't defeat Big Mom who bounty is still probably still higher than his. Plus how the arc looking on Luffy facing Kaido, he soon will be worthy even more of the bounty and another raise.

We never seen Kidd's full power in a fight as so far Oda has him with COC and able to fight and heavily hinted damaging Yonko Commander. Now he preping him as Luffy's main rival to PK throne with Law, so we can't say Kidd isn't worthy when we never seen his capabilities as Oda continue putting more info and actions he been doing lately. His bounty does make sense on why higher, so not mistake on that.

Sanji having higher bounty make sense as well since he clearly have power and danger to match it. So far in the arc Oda going to make him take out Top 6 Headliner and soon face Queen or King, YCs later on, so make sense and Oda still does see them as equals no matter the debate on who's tougher. He still see it to this day so not really a mistake.

Now not saying bounty system is always accurate, but it does relate to power most of the time while Dorikiri isn't that accurate more as its about physical strength when we know not all characters are physical strength all the time and fight different means in the end.
Luffy beat crackers 800 M with namis help and only because he foolishedly decided to attack himself instead of his DF soldiers. Katakuri could have finished luffy several times, he stabbed himself too ner the end. Anyone can see that Morgans overhyped luffy he even said that bege's plan was luffys.

Bounty= Powerlevel is BS
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And yet you seem to place every single supernova, whether or not they have impressive feats, beyond Sanji's level....You can't go around claiming that Sanji isn't supernova level while also saying that bounties are terrible indicators for strength. The Supernovas weren't given their name because of their power, they were given their name because of their bounties. It's a bounty based group that Sanji would have been apart of if a) He had not been behind the scenes at Ennies Lobby opening the Gates of Justice while Zoro was cutting down marine after marine and b) if Oda wasn't trying to hide his identity and save the vinsmoke reveal until after the time skip.

Sorry if this argument feels a little out of left field, but it really nags me when I see you contradict yourself like this so much.
How do I contradict myself, Supernova were introduced as the worst generation you are reducing them to their bounties which makes no sense.

Cavendish and many others before the worst generation were superrookies of 100+bounty, but the 10 supernova were the only ones introduced with a clear objective in the story as the ones who will shake the one piece world as we know it. Its all about the narrative and seeing how law is about the same level as luffy PTS, Urouge, Bege was impressive and now kidd, it is safe to assume that the other super nova are just on the same caliber.

On the other hand Sanji, 3rd or 4th strongest depending if you include Jimbe in the equation pales in comparaison.

Thats what I have been saying simple.

Saying that Sanji would have been a super nova "if" is just wishful thinking. At the end of the day oda decided not to include him in the super nova and its not due to chance, just like some hints show that at the end of the day he is not on the same caliber as them even if he has a strong will.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Luffy beat crackers 800 M with namis help and only because he foolishedly decided to attack himself instead of his DF soldiers. Katakuri could have finished luffy several times, he stabbed himself too ner the end. Anyone can see that Morgans overhyped luffy he even said that bege's plan was luffys.

Bounty= Powerlevel is BS
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



How do I contradict myself, Supernova were introduced as the worst generation you are reducing them to their bounties which makes no sense.

Cavendish and many others before the worst generation were superrookies of 100+bounty, but the 10 supernova were the only ones introduced with a clear objective in the story as the ones who will shake the one piece world as we know it. Its all about the narrative and seeing how law is about the same level as luffy PTS, Urouge, Bege was impressive and now kidd, it is safe to assume that the other super nova are just on the same caliber.

On the other hand Sanji, 3rd or 4th strongest depending if you include Jimbe in the equation pales in comparaison.

Thats what I have been saying simple.

Saying that Sanji would have been a super nova "if" is just wishful thinking. Its the same as saying Bepo could have been a super nova "if"...At the end of the day oda decided not to include him in the super nova and its not due to chance, just like some hints show that at the end of the day he is not on the same caliber as them even if he has a strong will.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

@afromarco005 I understand your point. However, all those that you named are those that I listed as exceptions, there are quite a few I know.
Looking at the bounties of individuals that Strawhats encountered and defeated it seems like a perfect power ranking system. When you throw in Strawhats into the mix then the system doesnt look good, that's why I exclude them.

I would agree that Luffy is not 1.5Bil strong, not even 1Bil but considering that Morgans exaggerated the story we understand why it is that big.
Usopp higher than Franky, I think Oda did that intentionally, whether for comical reasons or to make Usopp's lies come true...
Franky definitely deserves more, I consider him as one of the monsters of the crew, I am sure post-Wano bounty will do him justice.
Kidd for all we know may very well be equal in power to Luffy and it was stated why it was higher.
Sanji's bounty being higher than Zoro's is because Zoro didnt participate in WCI.

I think we should exclude Strawhats and the Worst Generation from bounty system if we want to keep it as reliable.
From Alvida's 5mil to Buggy's 15mil, from Krieg's 17mil to Arlong's 20mil, from Bellamy's 55mil to Croc's 81mil... From Snack's 600mil to Cracker, Smoothie all the way to Katakuri's 1Bil, it was a reliable system.
Strawhats and their generation are an anomaly because they are constantly progressing so it's hard to place them correctly into the bounty system.
But what is the point of a power level system if we can't even compare the protagonists to the antagonists and other characters?
 
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nik87

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But what is the point of a power level system if we can't even compare the protagonists to the antagonists and other characters?
Maybe it was never intended to do that.
It looks great if we exclude the main characters and their generation. Strawhats are an anomaly in more than one way so that system was probably never intended to be correct on them until they reach their final bounties...
 

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Luffy beat crackers 800 M with namis help and only because he foolishedly decided to attack himself instead of his DF soldiers. Katakuri could have finished luffy several times, he stabbed himself too ner the end. Anyone can see that Morgans overhyped luffy he even said that bege's plan was luffys.

Bounty= Powerlevel is BS
Though Luffy also have new Gear 4th Forms that got the job done and not necessarily team attack to defeat Cracker and not even with Katakuri. I do agree that Katakuri could have waste him few times, but most of the time Luffy did unpredictable things to get around his COO and Katakuri shown to be one to respect 1 on 1 duels as he stop Flambe from interfering as due to her for damaging Luffy. So wouldn't say his bounty is all smoke, mostly on BM defeating department, but he earned for the other fights and going to face more threats later as he still defeat guys with higher bounties majority on his own.

Bounty = Accurate (Majority of time) than Douriki = BS (A lot more than Bounties).
 

afromarco005

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Maybe it was never intended to do that.
It looks great if we exclude the main characters and their generation. Strawhats are an anomaly in more than one way so that system was probably never intended to be correct on them until they reach their final bounties...
Thats right and this is also why I like to believe that there is no real power level system in one piece as of now, only vague categories.

I too believed in the bounty =~ strenght until Time skip where I realised that it was wrong. but as you say if you look at the one piece story and characters pre time skip you can easily assume that bounty= power level especially when no name characters shout things like "the 100 million man" etc as if it was a testimony of their strenght.

But hey the thread is not to know wether bounty= power level or not but to guess characters douriki progression in the current story.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Though Luffy also have new Gear 4th Forms that got the job done and not necessarily team attack to defeat Cracker and not even with Katakuri. I do agree that Katakuri could have waste him few times, but most of the time Luffy did unpredictable things to get around his COO and Katakuri shown to be one to respect 1 on 1 duels as he stop Flambe from interfering as due to her for damaging Luffy. So wouldn't say his bounty is all smoke, mostly on BM defeating department, but he earned for the other fights and going to face more threats later as he still defeat guys with higher bounties majority on his own.

Bounty = Accurate (Majority of time) than Douriki = BS (A lot more than Bounties).
Exactly, Kat could have ended his adventures here and there was it not for CIS or his personality call it however you want.

If Bounty was an indicator of strenght I would put current luffy at around 800Mil and his bounty is almost twice this number...
 

~Charging Lightning~

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How do I contradict myself, Supernova were introduced as the worst generation you are reducing them to their bounties which makes no sense.
I'm not reducing them to anything. Shakki introduced the Supernovas as the 11 pirates on Sabody with Bounties over 100 million, nothing more nothing less. They were classified as a group because of their bounties. They weren't called the Worst Generation until after the Whitebeard War where they caused havok in the New World during the two year timeskip.

Cavendish and many others before the worst generation were superrookies of 100+bounty, but the 10 supernova were the only ones introduced with a clear objective in the story as the ones who will shake the one piece world as we know it. Its all about the narrative and seeing how law is about the same level as luffy PTS, Urouge, Bege was impressive and now kidd, it is safe to assume that the other super nova are just on the same caliber.
What does Cavendish have to do with this? He didn't accomplish anything after taking the spotlight unlike the Supernovas who were able to eventually gain the name "Worst generation" due to how they became involved in so many issues in the New World. I'm not arguing that they aren't impressive, I'm arguing that you're contradicting yourself by using bounties to downplay someone but then disregard bounties entirely whenever it benefits your argument.
On the other hand Sanji, 3rd or 4th strongest depending if you include Jimbe in the equation pales in comparaison.

Thats what I have been saying simple.
Pales in comparison my ass, Sanji has always been put on a pedestal with Luffy and Zoro to the point that they've been dubbed the Monster trio based on their monstrous strength. How does this pale in comparison to the bounty based Supernovas that were introduced afterwards?

Saying that Sanji would have been a super nova "if" is just wishful thinking. At the end of the day oda decided not to include him in the super nova and its not due to chance, just like some hints show that at the end of the day he is not on the same caliber as them even if he has a strong will.
Do you know what wishful thinking even is? There's a difference between grasping at straws senselessly and drawing logical conclusions backed with facts and reasoning. It would be wishful thinking if I was doing the former but I'm doing the latter. In Ennies Lobby Sanji defeated the guy who was virtually equal in power with Zoro's opponent yet after the arc there was a 43 million berry difference between there bounties. Why? Because Zoro was slicing elite captains up while Sanji was out of sight using his brain and opening the gates of justice. Oda decided not to use him as a supernova because he wanted Sanji's identity to be kept a secret so that the vinsmoke reveal would be shocking, this shouldn't be that hard to understand especially when Oda stopped using the Sanji drawing on his bounty poster.
 

Fox666

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Back to Douriki estimations...

IMHO the Douriki levels of the CP9 should give an idea of how Luffy, Zoro and Sanji compare to each other. While it's stated that the CP9 get more powerfull using their Zoan powers, based on Jabra reaction to Lucci's 4,000 figure, I don't think Jabra he ever got that high in any form. So I will say the CP9 get a 50% increase in strength in their hybrid forms.

Rob Lucci: 4,000 - 6,000
Kaku: 2,200 - 3,300
Jabra: 2,180 - 3,270

Luffy punches were perfectly balanced with Lucci's, and with Gear 2 he barely defeated Lucci's leopard form, so I give them the exact same amount. Zoro and Sanji had a slightly upper hand in the end.

Luffy: 4,000 - 6,000 (Gear 2)
Zoro: 3,400
Sanji: 3,370

The manga implies something like this for the monster trio.
 

King Moe

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Exactly, Kat could have ended his adventures here and there was it not for CIS or his personality call it however you want.

If Bounty was an indicator of strenght I would put current luffy at around 800Mil and his bounty is almost twice this number...
It was 2 on 1 though, so that wasn't fair fight to begin with and Katakuri stop it and rectify it by stopping her and hurting himself to be on fair grounds like before since Luffy was holding up so far until Flambe was attacking him same time as Katakuri, so Luffy was having harder time with two people, not one person as much. You can't put that against him.

It is as look who he be facing in Wano arc and prove it more as we all know Luffy going to beat Kaido in the end. Though his bounty still fits for defeating Cracker and Katakuri though in the end, but not Yonko since Big Mom and Kaido still have higher bounties. He probably get raise again once he defeats them.
 
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