I don't mind the character development too much even though it would have been nice. Actually if you think about it there is alot of character development with just Asha but not too much with the other characters. We do get some backstory though.....
Right now I'm in that place in Jagd and I just recieved that stone from Reddas and he is in my party.
1) Favourite game: FF8
2) Favourite character: Yuffie(FF7)
3) Favourite villain: The turks(they are so cool!)
4)Favourite summon: Bahamut
5) Played most: FF7
7) Toughest challenge: Beating WEAPONS in FF7
8) favourite moment: scene with squall and rinoa in ragnarok with Eyes on me playing in the background
9) most wanted sequal: probably ff8 or ff7
10)Favourite sidequest: Raising chocobos in ff7
11) would like to date: aerith or yuna ( i just love the innocent type)
Just finished the game, for the heck of finishing it!
But I honestly didn't feel satisfied. Maybe because of the long hiatus on playing the game. Or maybe because my TV's not working properly. I dunno but for whatever reasons, I feel like FF darted down several levels with this installment.
*waiting for the next FF installment with the hope of not being disappointed*
I haven't read this thread in its entirety, but from what I can tell a lot of people where as disappointed with the game as I was (which I finished last April - I played the Japanese version).
This is somewhat heartening, since reviewers on both sides of the Pacific gave the game an extremely warm welcome, so I thought that maybe I was just crazy... ... it turns out I'm not.
I wrote this in-depth critique of the game for Gold Knight over a month ago... and since I see this thread isn't dead yet, I'm posting it for those who are interested in it.
The critique is divided into four points. Point one is very long. The rest are an easy read. Thus, point one I've encased in spoiler tags. Only those who are *really* interested in game analysis need bother with it.
Anyway, here goes.
1. Character development system is retarded.
I've heard a great many remarks on how "deep" and "customizable" it is. That you may customize your characters however you want is very, very true; however, unless to decide not to spend those license points you earn on anything useful, what you'll end up with is characters with a hodgepodge of skills, who do not correspond to any "class" whatsoever.
In depth analysis
A well conceived character development system allows you to focus your experience points in learning exclusively the set of skills you want your character to have; and spending your points on developing a set of skills A means that you neglect the set B. If I want to create a wizard, then I'll be spending his or her points on developing the characters magic attack power and MP attributes. I'll also spend those points on learning spells instead of skills such as "steal."
The more I ignore a certain set of skills B in favor of the set A, the greater (and quicker) the set of skills A develops.
This does not happen in Final Fantasy XII.
I can spend all my license points in acquiring the blackest of black magic as soon as humanly possible, and that will be of absolutely no consequence, since I have to "buy" the spells in order to use them, and they won't be for sale for ten, maybe twenty hours. What I'll do, if I want to progress normally in the game, is buy the licenses for the skills and spells I *can* buy, or - assuming money's an issue (and it was in the Japanese version) - that I've ALREADY bought, since every character has access to abilities bought provided they have the corresponding license - whether you like it or not.
And it's a "whether you like it or not" situation indeed. Suppose that you want to get the skill "dark" - you know, the one in which you deal damage by sacrificing part of your HP. You want to create a "Dark Knight", you see. Well, it so happens that to be able to buy the license for "dark", you have to buy the licenses for skills which are not very "dark knight-ish" at all, such as (to put an example) "steal." You decide to buy the license for "steal" but not the skill itself. You eventually find a shop which sells "dark" and you buy it. You have your license. You have your DarK Knight.
But wait. You want another party member to be a theif. So you buy the skill "steal" from the shop, and guess what! Your Dark Knight now has "steal" too - all characters that went through that square do. I hope you're not thinking of having your dark night learn "gravity", 'cuz you'll have to turn him into a black wizard in the process (spending the corresonding license points).
The point is that the developers aren't giving me the freedom to decide what my characters can or cannot do. In a well crafted development system, you're given the choice between "thief skils" and "dark night" skills. If you chose dark night skills, all those points you don't spend on thief skills go into making you a bigger and badder dark night. But in Final Fantasy XII, you won't be able to make a big bad dark knight until the game decides to sell you the skills, at which point all characters who had to go through the corresponding license square become dark nights.
So my characters will all have black and white magic, and they'll all have the same spells and skills - the ones I've bought. There are not that many stat boost squares (which give you more MP, HP and such), so what determines which "class" your character corresponds to is ultimately your armor, and the problem detailed above applies here, as well: you buy licenses for the armor which is *available.*
So yes, you can have a party of three knights, and by changing their weapons and armor you can change them into three wizards on the fly - but that is precisely why there is no character development per se. You don't invest in a given set of attributes and then face the consequences or reap the rewards. You just buy what you can and outfit your characters with it.
Near the end of the game, once all spells, skills, weapons and armor where finally available, all my characters had all stat boost squares and most had all black and white magic, not to mention half of all skills. And I didn't even stop to level up - all I had to do was equip that thing-a-majig which allows you to earn twice the License points.
That's my beef with the license system: there's no strategic character development in there. It's all smoke and mirrors.
2. There are not enough treasure chests.
In a game where it may literally take you hours to get through a dungeon, you would expect there's more to do in there than simply whack away at bats and walking skelletons. Where the "valuable" treasure chests are is a mystery to me. "10 Gil!" and "Potion" are not enough to get me excited. The most "valuable" chests I normally found in there were gambits - and no, I do not consider being allowed to make my computer controlled companions less retarded a "reward", specially when "heal when under 40% ELSE attack weakest enemy" works so well for most of the game.
This may have changed in the overseas version of the game - I only played the Japanese one, so I wouldn't know.
3. The game is way too "big"
Now, one of the reasons the dungeons take so long to get through is because they're literally huge, even if there's not much to do other than go through it. Towns are huge, too. This makes the game needlessly long. It's not that there's more to do than in previous games, it's just that doing iit takes longer, 'cuz there's a *lot* of walking involved, even if you *do* use warp points and moogles (those who've played it know what I mean by "moogles").
I finished the game in around 80 hours. It took me a lot longer than it would have if my Japanese had been better at that point, especially since Final Fantasy XII is not particularly easy to read, and I like to talk to all the characters in town (now imagine if takes twice as long to read what they"re saying). I would have probably finished it in around 60 hours if I had played it in English. Without doing any sidequests, other than a few guild missions. That's not a lot of content per hour playtime. In 60 hours I could probably completely finish Final Fantasy VI. Conventional wisdom would hold that this makes FFXII better, since it's longer - but this isn't necessarily the case, since every hour of FFVI is packed with around twice the content found in FFXII.
Little content per hour of playtime = boredom.
4. Story...what story?
Not particularly long, but contains some spoilers. Those who are already like 20 hours into the game have nothing to fear, though.
No, seriously, what's the story? Ashe takes up rock collecting because she can either use them for revenge or to bring world peace. Vaan tags along for no reason other than to ride the airship. Penelo tags along because Vaan is "hopeless without her." Fran has the hots for Balthier and the latter has the hots for Ashe, so both end up following her. About the only one with a legitimate reason for risking his neck over a stubborn princess' whim is Basche, since he's her retainer.
Was there a scene in the U.S. version where Basche took it upon himself to explain to Ashe that he *didn't* kill her father? Because if it was there in the Japanese version, I must have been completely asleep. My Japanese may not be perfect, but I think I would have noticed if this had been the case.
If you ask me, the story starts losing steam precisely when you finally set off with your entire party. The bad guys are in one part of the world and your party's somewhere else. There is no interaction between them, so you don't really feel involved in the plot...whatever it is.
From there on it's all downhill. The ending is kinda contrived and I, personally, was not really pumped for the final battle. It's kinda like "er, ok...guess what! Final battle!" as opposed to the culmination of the story... again,whatever it is.
Worst of all is the utter lack of character development throughout the game. We're meant to see the contrast between Vaan's outlook on life versus Ashe's, but do we really need to see it over and over for fifty hours? There's no change in either until the very end, and with the possible exception of Basche, the remaining cast members don't even get as much.
It's... boring.
And, as Forest Gump would say, "that's about all I have to say about that."
I kinda gave up on FFXII >.> I just got to the point where the game was starting to feel boring and redundant. Im sure that I'll probably finish it this sumer, but only to get it done with. I hate leaving things half done. But still, the game lost my interest after the 30 or so hours.
I kinda gave up on FFXII >.> I just got to the point where the game was starting to feel boring and redundant. Im sure that I'll probably finish it this sumer, but only to get it done with. I hate leaving things half done. But still, the game lost my interest after the 30 or so hours.
I hear you. I bought it when it first came out but when I started playing it again, It got all exciting and good. I dunno it could just be because I'm starved for a good RPG but I heard Rogue Galaxy is supposed to be stallar ( get it stellar space hahaha oh whatever) and that Liyazaki did the animation for it.
right now I'm at the part where I have to go to Bahumet and I'm already in the game for about 92 hrs of my life.
i think what makes this game most disapointing is that we had such high expectations. I believe that if FF veterans (i would consider myself one lol) will be disapointed in how it turned out, considering its predicessors from ff4(esp in the story line) the story line and character developtment developments not as good (exceptp 4 ffx-2).
here are my beef with the game:
the licence grid is frustruating, i mean you can make your characters diverse to in the each others early in the game, however therin lies its flaws. the diversity created is namely up to you and nothing reflecting character. And as you level up and get more license points and starts to fill up the grid, everyone is the same character tacticly and ideally everyone should be equipped the tournesol or zodiac spear (just as an example).
remeber the classic systems? the junction, materia, jobs system, i even liked the grid sphere and dress phere systems in the other games.
the summoning system is crap, i mean has anyone legitimately seen zodiak doing his limit in the heat of a battle?
as for the other aspects of the game read iwanin's post, esp point 3 and 4 inrelation to the story and largeness of areas. seriously in ridorana you literally have to climb up 100 levels of crap i found no enjoyment at all from it.
iwanin said this about the storys plot, i couldnt say it any better
"If you ask me, the story starts losing steam precisely when you finally set off with your entire party. The bad guys are in one part of the world and your party's somewhere else. There is no interaction between them, so you don't really feel involved in the plot...whatever it is."
the game was ok at times, thats why i spent all that time on it, however.... it coulda been better
I rather hate the license system myself, and I'm also not a big fan of the Materia etc, basically any system that lets you have complete freedom what to do with the characters. Why? Because it takes away all the strategy of the game of which characters to bring with you. I mean, sure you don't HAVE to give all your characters the most useful abilities, but if I can, why wouldn't I?
I much rather would have to decide who stays and who goes on a mission.
I agree, the summon system sucks, they're all pretty worthless, and after you get a few, they're no help at all against a boss. FF X definitely had the best system.
I don't need to repeat on what I think about the story, characters, etc. If anyone wants to know, look up my monster, spoiler free post earlier.
I rather hate the license system myself, and I'm also not a big fan of the Materia etc, basically any system that lets you have complete freedom what to do with the characters. Why? Because it takes away all the strategy of the game of which characters to bring with you. I mean, sure you don't HAVE to give all your characters the most useful abilities, but if I can, why wouldn't I?
I had the exact same beef with the Materia system. I enjoy the strategy involved in developing each character's unique abilities and then putting them together to form the best party possible for a given scenario...and with the materia system, you're not developing characters - you're developing rocks characters can swap at a moment's notice.
Venom65437 said:
I agree, the summon system sucks, they're all pretty worthless, and after you get a few, they're no help at all against a boss. FF X definitely had the best system.
In the Japanese version you couldn't even assign gambits to the summon monsters...I'm assuming it remained unchanged? Using your myst cartridges on limit break chains (they were called Myst Knacks or something in the JP version... I'm assuming they found a better name for them) is much, much more effective than summoning monsters.
I personally like Final Fantasy X's battle system the best. It's the deepest and most strategic, and though it's not real time, it's pretty damned fast if you know what you're doing. The summons are also useful without being *too* powerful.
The guy who does Front Mission (who did the battle system for FFX) should be given charge of the Final Fantasy series period.
Incidentally, I finished Blue Dragon (for Xbox360) about a month ago, and I've gotta say that, while it may not go down as a classic, it's pretty damned good, and a lot closer to "Final Fantasy" than XII. It's basically Final Fantasy V-2, as far as the character development system's concerned.
At any rate, as far as I'm concerned, X was the last Final Fantasy, and the successors to this series are Hironobu Sakaguchi's (the creator of Final Fantasy) Blue Dragon and Lost Odysee. FF fans would do well to buy themselves an Xbox360.
i liked the growth and complimentary aspects of the materia system, i guess the major downside of the materia system is that anyone can equip any materia.... personal opinion i like it. The mist knacks (quickenings) i think was a big flaw of the game, sure it was effective, but i feel over stimulating and redundant, esp when you have a big chain, mist knacks makes any summon/upgrades/special moves look bland (i wasnt impressed with any summons even though they are more visually appealing that the other games).
"In the Japanese version you couldn't even assign gambits to the summon monsters...I'm assuming it remained unchanged?"
yeah you can assign gambits on summons they just do whatever they want.
as for the best system? ffv... makes up for the predictable story line... the junction system is a close second to me..
I don't mind the battle system in FF12 too much but what I do mind is that none of the characters have their own signature weapons or signature limits. The mist thing sucked in my opinion and I personally think that having a move whick uses up one bar or oyur MP is ridiculous
I totally agree death! Summons using up all your MP and not being very good suck. And quickenings, can be very good, but if you just happen to be unlucky you've used all your MP for nothing.
In my opinion, if you're going to do a move where you're basically putting all your chips on the table, (and you ARE by using all your MP,) it needs to seriously be worth it.
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hehehe don't we all always fall for the innocent type?
... it turns out I'm not.
