Games The Final Fantasy Thread!

[Nii]

Nomura said that the remake will make the characters more realistic but no new characters will be added to the game.

Don't forget this important statement:

Finally, Famitsu asks more about the game system.

“While I can’t say much about the details, it will be changed to a system that has a sense of reality,” answers Nomura.

I mean... really?

 

[Sky]

Well why not? ATB is completely outdated and having full hd character models just jump to the front and back is not 2015.

Including CC and DoC would be amazing but I guess getting a remake on its own is already way more than everyone had hoped for...

 

[Jammin]

Ok, now that worries me. A sense of "reality"...

It's a game about a quest to save the world involving a cat riding on a stuffed animal whose weapon is a megaphone where you ride giant chickens. Applying realizim to it seems like a bad choice.

Final Fantasy VI and VII are basically structured like really good Saturday morning cartoon shows. Neither are realistic in tone so hearing they are going to try and apply that is worrisome.

Though even if they screw it up, we'll always have the original so it's like it is something to be too stirred up about.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

But I guess this doesn't fall too far out of line with what we've come to expect from Namura and his team. This has kinda become the Final Fantasy way since they abandoned art styles for realism.

If I could choose the art style I'd pick a form of cell shading like what the Persona game uses. I'd also keep the ATB as is. Nothing about that battle system is outdated, IMO. I'd make the loading faster, something closer to Suikoden's battle speed, but other than that I think changing it would be a mistake.

 

[kkck]

They already did the whole realism thing in advent children though. Granted they kinda skipped over cait sith but overall I would say they pulled it off fairly well. And those are the sort of graphics they are aiming for to begin with. Its possible the more advanced graphics will make everything less realistic than they would hope for though. I wonder how limit breaks would look like in those graphics. We saw several limit breaks in advent children but we did not get to see barret using a satellite or cid doing whatever he did...

As far as ATB goes, I don't think it can be outdated. Its a general concept, saying its outdated would be like saying chess is outdated. And even now final fantasy VII is popular... I don't think it'd be an issue if they keep it as is or with a few minor twists (I don't care too much for random encounters).

That said, I am kinda hoping they make characters more useful. The relevance of a character in FFVII relied too much on the strength of his limit breaks. Which ultimately came down who hits the most times at higher levels. At lower levels its a tad more interesting though. Anyways, they should make it so that there is a slightly more strategic element to each. And make cait sith useful for something.

 

[Jammin]

They already did the whole realism thing in advent children though. Granted they kinda skipped over cait sith but overall I would say they pulled it off fairly well. And those are the sort of graphics they are aiming for to begin with. Its possible the more advanced graphics will make everything less realistic than they would hope for though. I wonder how limit breaks would look like in those graphics. We saw several limit breaks in advent children but we did not get to see barret using a satellite or cid doing whatever he did...

They tried to. I guess, how well that works for somebody is probably gauged to some degree by what they think of Advent Children. I personally think that movie was well...complete garbage.

So I'm not particular optimistic about that style working for it but we haven't seen much yet. This was basically a cutscene that showing the tone they want to go for. A pretty huge portion of Final Fantasy VII is goofy and playful stuff to go along with the drama. They are going to have to find a way to handle that fairy tale or cartoony parts of the story. And I'm not at all sure how they are going to do that with this style; since that's something they've never managed to do in this style.

 

[shahdan]

They already did the whole realism thing in advent children though. Granted they kinda skipped over cait sith but overall I would say they pulled it off fairly well. And those are the sort of graphics they are aiming for to begin with. Its possible the more advanced graphics will make everything less realistic than they would hope for though. I wonder how limit breaks would look like in those graphics. We saw several limit breaks in advent children but we did not get to see barret using a satellite or cid doing whatever he did...

As far as ATB goes, I don't think it can be outdated. Its a general concept, saying its outdated would be like saying chess is outdated. And even now final fantasy VII is popular... I don't think it'd be an issue if they keep it as is or with a few minor twists (I don't care too much for random encounters).

That said, I am kinda hoping they make characters more useful. The relevance of a character in FFVII relied too much on the strength of his limit breaks. Which ultimately came down who hits the most times at higher levels. At lower levels its a tad more interesting though. Anyways, they should make it so that there is a slightly more strategic element to each. And make cait sith useful for something.

It's not possible to achieve AC kind of CGI level graphics in a open world setting and on the current hardware. It'll be miracle if they manage even half that quality. I agree with the rest. This is a remake, not an HD remaster. I hope they capture the dark and gritty feel of the slums. The cartoonish thing may have suited PS1 era, but this is happening nearly two decades later. It will only be legitimate and mature to overhaul the mood and combat of the game to fit in with the corruption in Shinra, Sephiroth's betrayal and Cloud's impersonation of his assassinated friend. I myself liked AC a lot. It captured the mood of the aforementioned plotlines perfectly.

I think if they go for something along the lines of FF X-2 battle system, then it will be great. Random encounters and ATB gauges can be kept intact, but with a nice overhaul.

I hope they don't kill Arieth too soon. She was the only medic on the team and she dies too early. I think if they do plan on killing her, then they should hold it off till the later past of the game and make some other character a medic. Vincent and Yuffie will have to be made into obligatory additions given their role in AC.

 

[kkck]

They tried to. I guess, how well that works for somebody is probably gauged to some degree by what they think of Advent Children. I personally think that movie was well...complete garbage.

So I'm not particular optimistic about that style working for it but we haven't seen much yet. This was basically a cutscene that showing the tone they want to go for. A pretty huge portion of Final Fantasy VII is goofy and playful stuff to go along with the drama. They are going to have to find a way to handle that fairy tale or cartoony parts of the story. And I'm not at all sure how they are going to do that with this style; since that's something they've never managed to do in this style.

Well, plotwise I do find the movie to be a tad weaker than it should be but visually it came out very strong IMO. Was there a lot of cartoony in the story? I seem to recall the story being mostly gritty so to speak. There was cait sith but other than that there wasn't that much cartoony going around. Or maybe it didn't seem that way because of the 90s graphics which muddled everything?

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 PM ----------

It's not possible to achieve AC kind of CGI level graphics in a open world setting and on the current hardware. It'll be miracle if they manage even half that quality. I agree with the rest. This is a remake, not an HD remaster. I hope they capture the dark and gritty feel of the slums. The cartoonish thing may have suited PS1 era, but this is happening nearly two decades later. It will only be legitimate and mature to overhaul the mood and combat of the game to fit in with the corruption in Shinra, Sephiroth's betrayal and Cloud's impersonation of his assassinated friend. I myself liked AC a lot. It captured the mood of the aforementioned plotlines perfectly.

I think if they go for something along the lines of FF X-2 battle system, then it will be great. Random encounters and ATB gauges can be kept intact, but with a nice overhaul.

I hope they don't kill Arieth too soon. She was the only medic on the team and she dies too early. I think if they do plan on killing her, then they should hold it off till the later past of the game and make some other character a medic. Vincent and Yuffie will have to be made into obligatory additions given their role in AC.

It depends on how OP it is though. I doubt making the world map from the old FFVII would be that impossible if they keep the style. Now, if they want to render it all at once with realisitic proportions then it would indeed be more of a challenge.

I don't think they should go for outright gritty with the game... The original game had its dark elements but it was never the actual focus of the game. Its supposed to be a fantasy, gritty would ruin that a bit.

 

[Jammin]

Well, plotwise I do find the movie to be a tad weaker than it should be but visually it came out very strong IMO. Was there a lot of cartoony in the story? I seem to recall the story being mostly gritty so to speak. There was cait sith but other than that there wasn't that much cartoony going around. Or maybe it didn't seem that way because of the 90s graphics which muddled everything?

I think it's fair to say it was. Even during the Midgar stuff you got into a squat thrust competition in order to get a buff guy to make women's clothes for you. The Shinra agent guys where pretty much a slapstick comedy team.

The whole game is filled with silly yet endearing stuff where you ride a dolphin, march in a parade, win a chocobo race; the whole game is punctuated with fun loving silly moments like that.

The issue that I, and some others, had with Advent Children is that it basically boiled down Final Fantasy to Sepheroth fan faction with no sense of humor at all. It's sole selling point was looking good and having a bunch of handsome guys who cry a lot; and they essentially cut everything out that didn't fit that tone. Which fails to capture what was really good about Final Fantasy VII, which was how diverse the world and experience was. One of the great things about Final Fantasy VII is that every place you go has it's own distinct feel to it. Like Midgar is completely different from Cosa Del Soyo which is completely different from Junion which is completely different from Wutai which is completely different from the Golden Saucer so on and so forth. The story is the same way. Some parts are silly, some are romantic, some are tragic. It doesn't have just one tone.

That is what I think is going to make it a real challenge for Square in remaking this in a realistic art style. Can they achieve that kind of flexibility with that style? I hope so, but I don't think they've ever managed anything close to that before.

 

[kkck]

I think it's fair to say it was. Even during the Midgar stuff you got into a squat thrust competition in order to get a buff guy to make women's clothes for you. The Shinra agent guys where pretty much a slapstick comedy team.

The whole game is filled with silly yet endearing stuff where you ride a dolphin, march in a parade, win a chocobo race; the whole game is punctuated with fun loving silly moments like that.

The issue that I, and some others, had with Advent Children is that it basically boiled down Final Fantasy to Sepheroth fan faction with no sense of humor at all. It's sole selling point was looking good and having a bunch of handsome guys who cry a lot; and they essentially cut everything out that didn't fit that tone. Which fails to capture what was really good about Final Fantasy VII, which was how diverse the world and experience was. One of the great things about Final Fantasy VII is that every place you go has it's own distinct feel to it. Like Midgar is completely different from Cosa Del Soyo which is completely different from Junion which is completely different from Wutai which is completely different from the Golden Saucer so on and so forth. The story is the same way. Some parts are silly, some are romantic, some are tragic. It doesn't have just one tone.

That is what I think is going to make it a real challenge for Square in remaking this in a realistic art style. Can they achieve that kind of flexibility with that style? I hope so, but I don't think they've ever managed anything close to that before.

I don't think animating any of those things would be much of an issue. The main issue would be whether to keep those things or not more than anything. No final fantasy I have played so far has a single tone (though I have only played up to 12). I don't think the style in itself is limiting in that regard. Take the AC movie, the turks also had their slapstick moments there too. Again, the issue is not whether they can but rather whether they are willing...

 

[shahdan]

It depends on how OP it is though. I doubt making the world map from the old FFVII would be that impossible if they keep the style. Now, if they want to render it all at once with realisitic proportions then it would indeed be more of a challenge.

I don't think they should go for outright gritty with the game... The original game had its dark elements but it was never the actual focus of the game. Its supposed to be a fantasy, gritty would ruin that a bit.

I don't think they will copy the world map as it was. It will definitely be expanded with new areas and mini games and towns etc as this is the whole point of Remake. I can't see it happened in wider areas as FF XV looks no where near AC's level. But let's see what happens.

I meant to say that the gritty aspect of the game should be translated well. These aspects were along those lines, so, it would only benefit the game if they do this justice, at least. I just hope they don't listen to any fan and go through with this, as this is a colossal task as it is and it would make it that much more problematic to manage with hounding fans.

---------- Post added at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 AM ----------

I want to put this out there, to be honest. Those who are too nostalgic have failed to grasp the concept of Remake, market, and the fact that it has been nearly two decades since FF VII. SE is not going to simply enhance the graphics and release the game into the market; for that, there is that PC version available. The core audience now is between 25 - 40 years old now; the buyers demographic and the market has gone through a dramatic alteration since then. The silly aspect of the game would obviously be drastically toned down and the game will receive a grittier addition to the overall mode. As SE's aim is to make a realistic addition to the franchise, not to appease the nostalgia driven crowd but to draw in the new market.

A big project like this that will require a lot of time, effort, and money, is not simply being made to fulfill nostalgic moments. Even the thought is laughable. Its Turned Based battle system is dated, the overall story is dated. This isn't the nineties where games were in the phase of evolution due to the CDs and better consoles in the market. No, games have already evolved into a multi-million dollar industry where innovation, constant innovation is required to stay afloat. There are genres and sub-genres and most Developers and Publishers release games that are made up of several genres at the same time. Constant evolution and innovation is the key to decent sales these days, as a small misstep causes the company huge loses. Thus, Devs and companies have to tread carefully.

VII already produced an era of JRPGs to follow in its wake. VII now is an old story, replicated in many ways by many games to come. To reproduce this in that exact same manner is financial suicide as it will be alienating the new crowd, and the already existing one that are waiting to play something fresh. People should just realize this that the market dynamics have dramatically changed since then. Now the market is made up of mature players who have bought games like GTA, COD - okay, not that mature - UC, GOW etc in spades. Why would they be interested in the same old VII when 1) it's already available on PC now, 2) they have grown past that phase, 3) games are evolving everywhere, and 4) the market is not what it used to be? Not to mention the fact that Console gaming is already almost dead in Japan. Going for the same game now would make no sense whatsoever.

So, going for a realistic outing makes sense. They have a huge task ahead of them where they will have to overhaul the story while keeping major, plot-turning story elements still the same, fix the dated battle system, remove the cartoon-ish element to make the game accessible to most audiences and still keep the flair of FF. Thank God, Nomura and Co are not listening to any one and keeping their head straight to delve into this with a mature outlook that is considering the present needs and wants and requirements of the gaming industry in Japan and abroad. Japan is already behind in this regard because of their inability to evolve. This leave-it-as-it-is is never happening given the reasons behind the Remake are market orientation and new, fresh approach, and this is a lot bigger than simple nostalgia.

 

[zelllogan]

ATB is obsolete since FF10. FF10 brought the maximum that can be expected from this system. FF10 managed to keep the "turn by turn" gameplay but without the wait of a time bar. IMO, I still think the ultimate "turn by turn" combat is from grandia 2.

 

[kkck]

I don't see why turn by turn would be as a whole obsolete. I mean, do people specifically avoid turn based games? It ultimately depends on how creative the makers of the games are in regards to keeping it interesting rather than a wide concept being obsolete.

---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 PM ----------

I don't think they will copy the world map as it was. It will definitely be expanded with new areas and mini games and towns etc as this is the whole point of Remake. I can't see it happened in wider areas as FF XV looks no where near AC's level. But let's see what happens.

I meant to say that the gritty aspect of the game should be translated well. These aspects were along those lines, so, it would only benefit the game if they do this justice, at least. I just hope they don't listen to any fan and go through with this, as this is a colossal task as it is and it would make it that much more problematic to manage with hounding fans.

---------- Post added at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 AM ----------

I want to put this out there, to be honest. Those who are too nostalgic have failed to grasp the concept of Remake, market, and the fact that it has been nearly two decades since FF VII. SE is not going to simply enhance the graphics and release the game into the market; for that, there is that PC version available. The core audience now is between 25 - 40 years old now; the buyers demographic and the market has gone through a dramatic alteration since then. The silly aspect of the game would obviously be drastically toned down and the game will receive a grittier addition to the overall mode. As SE's aim is to make a realistic addition to the franchise, not to appease the nostalgia driven crowd but to draw in the new market.

A big project like this that will require a lot of time, effort, and money, is not simply being made to fulfill nostalgic moments. Even the thought is laughable. Its Turned Based battle system is dated, the overall story is dated. This isn't the nineties where games were in the phase of evolution due to the CDs and better consoles in the market. No, games have already evolved into a multi-million dollar industry where innovation, constant innovation is required to stay afloat. There are genres and sub-genres and most Developers and Publishers release games that are made up of several genres at the same time. Constant evolution and innovation is the key to decent sales these days, as a small misstep causes the company huge loses. Thus, Devs and companies have to tread carefully.

VII already produced an era of JRPGs to follow in its wake. VII now is an old story, replicated in many ways by many games to come. To reproduce this in that exact same manner is financial suicide as it will be alienating the new crowd, and the already existing one that are waiting to play something fresh. People should just realize this that the market dynamics have dramatically changed since then. Now the market is made up of mature players who have bought games like GTA, COD - okay, not that mature - UC, GOW etc in spades. Why would they be interested in the same old VII when 1) it's already available on PC now, 2) they have grown past that phase, 3) games are evolving everywhere, and 4) the market is not what it used to be? Not to mention the fact that Console gaming is already almost dead in Japan. Going for the same game now would make no sense whatsoever.

So, going for a realistic outing makes sense. They have a huge task ahead of them where they will have to overhaul the story while keeping major, plot-turning story elements still the same, fix the dated battle system, remove the cartoon-ish element to make the game accessible to most audiences and still keep the flair of FF. Thank God, Nomura and Co are not listening to any one and keeping their head straight to delve into this with a mature outlook that is considering the present needs and wants and requirements of the gaming industry in Japan and abroad. Japan is already behind in this regard because of their inability to evolve. This leave-it-as-it-is is never happening given the reasons behind the Remake are market orientation and new, fresh approach, and this is a lot bigger than simple nostalgia.

Agreed, times change and the game needs some updating. But the question is, how much? There is only so much they can change with the game still being FFVII. On the other hand just changing the graphics clearly is not the only thing they need to do. They have to change stuff but not so much that the game stops being FFVII. They need the game to be FFVII. I mean, if they completely change the story, gameplay and whatever else then they might as well be working on FFXVI....

On that note, I am not sure that innovation is what is needed to keep sales going nowadays. I have lagged a bit over the past few years but it kinda seems like everyone keeps making the same games over and over. I mean, why else would call of duty be so successful? Its basically the same first person shooter over and over again... Very few games seem to truly innovate nowadays. Of course, such a thing would get more complicated over time considering how many games there are now compared to any point in the past. Most of the time it seems like they are simply going for better graphics rather than actual innovative gameplay. Even though graphics as a selling point probably should have stopped being a thing since the PS3 game out. Right now I would argue that the industry's defining aspect is just how conservative it is. Unless call of duty: advanced warfare somehow made the concept of first person shooter into his bitch and redefined it into something new. As far as I can tell, the concept of first person shooter remains largely unbitchified.

 

[Jammin]

Remaking a game isn't about redesigning a game it's about updating it. Which is fine. But at the same time people only want the remake because people love the original. If in the process of remaking it you lose that. Then I think the remake will ultimately not hold up against the original. That's just the way it goes.

It's an extremely difficult balance to strike but that's the nature of doing a full remake, something that's worthwhile if they can get it right. But change too much and you risk ruining the appeal of Square's best selling game of all time. So the question they have to deal with is what to change, what to update, what to add, and what to remove.

The two things that I think it would be foolish to change are the art style and the combat system. The music is the most loved soundtracks in gaming history. And turn based RPG's are still well loved. That's what Bravely Default was. That's what Persona 4 was. So the idea that style of games is outdated is just frankly wrong. I don't like the proposed art style but frankly no matter what they do it's going to look odd.

----------------------------------------------

Something that also should be understood about this remake is who is actually doing it. Square's Final Fantasy team aren't actually making this game. It's a collaborative deal with Cyberconnect2 who are just starting on the game this year(at least that's the rumor).

The developer known for the Naruto Ninjastorm series and .Hack games. As well as doing the recent remake of the Final Fantasy VII's G-Bike which was remade by them for release on IOS and Android. That's who is actually doing the remake. So I'll be interested to see what the final product actually looks like because I highly doubt it will look like that E3 trailer when it comes out like 4 years from now.

---------- Post added at 11:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------

Another thought is that since it's cutscene based they could use two different art styles for the cut scenes and game play. Which is how the original game was to some degree. That might allow them to find a better middle ground between Square modern art style and the older more cartoony style.

And as an added bonuse be like 100x cheaper to actually do.

 

[riki]

Nomura stated in a magazine interview that FFVII Remake's combat will have some dramatic changes

 

[Nii]

I read that too... are they really this dumb? I smell FF7 will turn into another generic action RPG fighting-wise, why not just stick to the old system with some changes? Do they really believe that the round-base fighting system is so outdated and everyone prefers fast fighting action? Honestly from comments I've seen around the net people want the fighting system to remain the same, with some improvements here or there, and they're fearing that Square Enix will stray heavily from that again. I don't like it one bit either, but let's see how it turns out =/

 

[Jammin]

Apparently they might be that dumb.

I'm kinda surprising they are commenting on the game's development at all, honestly, because it's just so far away from being released. Like Final Fantasy XV and the new Kingdom Hearts, which Nomura is the director of, are probably both still over a year away(probably more). They don't have any internal studios to assign to this and Cyberconnect2 is still working on the new Naruto game so I'm not sure whose supposed to be working on it. They probably haven't even started full development on this game yet and when they do it's probably going to be like 4 years away, at least. So right now it's all just talk with very little substance backing it up.

This is a game where an optimistic guess at the release date is holiday 2019. And knowing how long Nomura takes to develop anything holiday 2022 is probably more realistic.

 

[kkck]

Apparently they might be that dumb.

I'm kinda surprising they are commenting on the game's development at all, honestly, because it's just so far away from being released. Like Final Fantasy XV and the new Kingdom Hearts, which Nomura is the director of, are probably both still over a year away(probably more). They don't have any internal studios to assign to this and Cyberconnect2 is still working on the new Naruto game so I'm not sure whose supposed to be working on it. They probably haven't even started full development on this game yet and when they do it's probably going to be like 4 years away, at least. So right now it's all just talk with very little substance backing it up.

This is a game where an optimistic guess at the release date is holiday 2019. And knowing how long Nomura takes to develop anything holiday 2022 is probably more realistic.

2022 would be 7 years from now, by that time odds are there will be at least one new next gen console (provided sony and microsoft decide their consoles will have a very long life). Even 4 years sounds like a bit much...

As far as a changed combat system, I don't think turn based system as a concept can be obsolete however a materia based system which does not have turns could be fun as well. The most basic element they should keep at least is the materia system, because it is intrinsic to the plot, and the fact that they can be used to enhance the user and combined to powerful effects. I wouldn't be a fan of them doing something like what they did in XII (as in pausing to input commands) or what they seem to be doing in XV (though it kinda feels like the secondary characters are not quite as important in battle somehow)... Though certain materia seem like they would be a tad awkward in such a system. The materia to attack all enemies at once would be weird as not all enemies will be in front of you. I guess the materia to attack multiple times can be effective here. I liked the animations for spells and summons in FFVII but such a thing is bound to not work that well in a game like that. Looking at XII the magic aninamtion always felt a bit underwhelming IMO. Or maybe I don't remember it too well.

 

[Jammin]

2022 would be 7 years from now, by that time odds are there will be at least one new next gen console (provided sony and microsoft decide their consoles will have a very long life). Even 4 years sounds like a bit much...

Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts III both began development 2006. 9 years later neither are out yet. Tetsuya Nomura is going to be primarily working to get Kingdom Hearts III, as the director of that game, out the door for the next 1-2 years.

Best case scenario he wraps up work on Kingdom Hearts III by next year gets to work on full development for Final Fantasy. Put it in a standard 2 year dev cycle (which would have to mean minimal changes to the original game) and we see it in 2018. Knowing him and Square though that's a pie in the sky time frame.

This game is not coming out for a very long time.

 

[riki]

Final Fantasy: Distant Worlds composer claims that there will be a FFXII remake on the way though the article writer believes that it's more likely be a remaster.

 

[kkck]

Agreed, its probably a remaster... XII doesn't warrant a remake in the least, its not even That old, at least compared to the, well, older titles. Even FFX does not warrant a remake yet and probably won't ever... If they are making remakes they have almost all FF from the first to the 9th to work with.

On another note, are there any fan made remakes of the games? I know fans have remastered a few games but never a proper remake. It seems like the sort of thing the internet would do.