Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Doughboy]

The idea of cute girls being needed in a series to be successful is as silly as this sentence sounds like but I’ll be lying if wife aspect doesn’t make things more appealing as someone who likes females; good looking ones at that.

With that being said the chick in that series was randomly hot for a dark series, but enjoyed it big time besides that. Sucks it ended in 4 chapters.

 

[iceemperor]

I just want Yuuna to be successful and grow.
That's not happening right now due to several factors.

Maybe it's because it has actual sex in its volumes? Probably hard to greenlight an anime based on that factor alone, especially for a publisher like Shueisha. I think an anime is possible though.
It does get a lot of promotion btw. It gets a bit of exposure in JP stores (it sells best at Toranoana), has a voice drama and website, and had an extra chapter in YJ. The volumes' main selling point are the extended sex scenes in volumes, which is why it's done so well up to now.

None of that compares to Yuuna's. Tora is at its core, an Otaku store. Its big but again it focuses mostly on Otaku goods while Yuuna is in the most mainstream magazine in Japan. Each week around 1.8 copies are printed and around 1.2 to 1.4 are sold every week. That on its own is big promotion. In addition, Yuuna was in the New Order promotion campaign along with Kimetsu and BC. There's more but all of this should be enough to at the least have its sales at or near Harem's level but here we are with an almost 100k difference between the latest volumes. I honestly don't believe that just having extended sex scenes will help it sell that much as many manga have such sex scenes. Its probably reasonable to say that the demographics that buy Harem's volumes are probably at least in their 20s. Younger people might just read it on the app. These older readers can just as well read ****** doujins if they want self-insert manga with sex scenes. Harem has something that is pushing huge amounts of people to buy it. Young Animal series for example tend to focus on Ecchi and yet we don't see Harem levels of sales there. The magazine itself being smaller might be one reason but then we have Berserk and Sangatsu, though those are different cases altogether.

 

[Tanzo]

None of that compares to Yuuna's. Tora is at its core, an Otaku store. Its big but again it focuses mostly on Otaku goods while Yuuna is in the most mainstream magazine in Japan. Each week around 1.8 copies are printed and around 1.2 to 1.4 are sold every week. That on its own is big promotion. In addition, Yuuna was in the New Order promotion campaign along with Kimetsu and BC. There's more but all of this should be enough to at the least have its sales at or near Harem's level but here we are with an almost 100k difference between the latest volumes. I honestly don't believe that just having extended sex scenes will help it sell that much as many manga have such sex scenes. Its probably reasonable to say that the demographics that buy Harem's volumes are probably at least in their 20s. Younger people might just read it on the app. These older readers can just as well read ****** doujins if they want self-insert manga with sex scenes. Harem has something that is pushing huge amounts of people to buy it. Young Animal series for example tend to focus on Ecchi and yet we don't see Harem levels of sales there. The magazine itself being smaller might be one reason but then we have Berserk and Sangatsu, though those are different cases altogether.

So why is Harem doing so well then? If its not the extended stuff in volumes then what? Multiple manga that are exactly like it exist in the manga industry yet most never reach its sales.
There is no reason I can see that it should sell as well as it does other than the added sex/****** artist doing the series, which again many other series in other mags do.
Also, the New Order stuff didn't help that much for any the series it was supposed to promote.

 

[Halloween]

I said the setup was brilliant because the mangaka for Yuuna really pulled off what he was planning almost seamlessly, not only did he manage to setup his series in just the right way for it to immediately take off and quickly get an anime, but he also managed to make his series good and not feel manufactured to be a hit, at least imo.

Not manufactured? Really? I guess the selling point of uncensored volumes was purely by accident. >_>

 

[iceemperor]

So why is Harem doing so well then? If its not the extended stuff in volumes then what? Multiple manga that are exactly like it exist in the manga industry yet most never reach its sales.
There is no reason I can see that it should sell as well as it does other than the added sex/****** artist doing the series, which again many other series in other mags do.
Also, the New Order stuff didn't help that much for any the series it was supposed to promote.

All I can speculate is that a line of lucky breaks all lined up. I previously speculated that the main demographic that buys the volumes are in their 20s but its still possible that this is one "ero-manga" that teenagers (specifically 15/16-18) can buy without having to go to the adult section or having "成人向け" written on its cover.

 

[cody]

Well, I apologize I guess for getting overly excited how well the mangaka's plan worked out. xD I don't think Yuuna is anything too special, I just like it, which is unusual for my usual tastes.

I think you're really over hyping Yuuna here. I like it as much as the next guy but it's as generic as harem romcoms come.

I don't think I'm overhyping Yuuna, I guess I got excited on how well the mangaka's strategy worked.

Not manufactured? Really? I guess the selling point of uncensored volumes was purely by accident. >_>

Well, they can't really show the uncensored version in the magazine, can they?

Not really, vary case by case. Look up to love ru and nisekoi. Both have 2 years adaptation~

I guess I got the impression that Yuuna's anime was coming a little bit quicker than for those two, my bad.

Yuuna didn't take off almost immediately. I'd even argue this sudden anime is an effort to make a manufactured hit as Yuuna is as niche as they come in Jump and yet it's anime is already announced at Volume 8. Its sales, while not very important are nothing special especially when compared to To Love Ru, which was at 3.5 million copies at volume 8 compared to Yuuna's 1.5 million. Even if you add in digital, Yuuna isn't a particularly high ranker on Amazon JP, Rakuten's online store and other online retailers. To begin with, it sold well because of its inclusion of nipples. Harem in Jump+ is also doing well due to that and outsells Yuuna, rubbing shoulders with BC back in October. Harem has outsold yuuna for a while now and you can't say its due to content as they're pretty similar and Yuuna actually has more exposure than Harem due to being in the main magazine and having much more promotion.

Thanks for the detailed insight.

 

[Tanzo]

All I can speculate is that a line of lucky breaks all lined up. I previously speculated that the main demographic that buys the volumes are in their 20s but its still possible that this is one "ero-manga" that teenagers (specifically 15/16-18) can buy without having to go to the adult section or having "成人向け" written on its cover.

So basically luck? All right then.
Done arguing about this, it's only gonna make me more triggered that Yuuna isn't "special" or whatever.

Anyways, the cover of Vol. 9 of Kimetsu will be Uzui according to the latest chapter.

 

[cody]

So basically luck? All right then.
Done talking about this issue, it's only gonna make me more triggered that Yuuna isn't "special" or whatever.

Anyways, the cover of Vol. 9 of Kimetsu will be Uzui according to the latest chapter.

One thing that Yuuna handles very well is the mc, he is great. The manga is formatted in such a way that the story can come when needed and the manga can also have a satisfying conclusion even if it has to end early for whatever reason. If you look at it from a distance, you can say it doesn't do anything that special, but the fact that it executes so many things very well made it stand out.

 

[shoyoboyo]

Anyways, the cover of Vol. 9 of Kimetsu will be Uzui according to the latest chapter.

Hell yeah, looking forward to seeing this. Uzui's hair is fabulous. Love the pastel color palette.

 

[Tamil]

Gotouge better go full flamboyant on us with the cover. Please keep the sales boost going too. I want it to do 150k.

 

[TM2]

I'd say that Yuuna's MC isn't terrible, I have certainly seen worse, but I also don't think he is a particularly good protagonist. At least for a romantic comedy. My biggest beef with the series is that I don't really think that the characters really have much of a chemistry with each other. The girls, attractive designs aside, aren't much better in the personality department either, which by extension undercuts both the romance and comedy for me.

I may be missing something something here but I honestly cannot connect or emphasize with any of the characters. Kogarashi in particular, he is more or less invincible and its hard to imagine him experiencing anything resembling a struggle or having a goal where he cannot immediately solve by pulling a talent out of his ass. You could say he is a nice guy and that might be enough, but without showing us the effort that goes into being "nice" it kinda undercuts the value of the kind actions he takes.

While I do not mind escapist characters, Kogarashi takes it to a absurd degree. To the point I can't see him as a character with legitimate feelings and issues but more along the lines of a plot device to move the harem antics along. He's certainly not the worst I've seen but he seems to be such a blank slate I cannot understand why the girls are interested in him in the first place.

 

[Tanzo]

Robot x Laserbeam #3 cover:

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2017 ---

I'd say that Yuuna's MC isn't terrible, I have certainly seen worse, but I also don't think he is a particularly good protagonist. At least for a romantic comedy. My biggest beef with the series is that I don't really think that the characters don't really have much of a chemistry with each other. The girls, attractive designs aside, aren't much better in the personality department either, which by extension undercuts both the romance and comedy for me.

I may be missing something something here but I honestly cannot connect or emphasize with any of the characters. Kogarashi in particular, he is more or less invincible and its hard to imagine him experiencing anything resembling a struggle or having a goal where he cannot immediately solve by pulling a talent out of his ass. You could say he is a nice guy and that might be enough, but without showing us the effort that goes into being "nice" it kinda undercuts the value of the kind actions he takes.

While I do not mind escapist characters, Kogarashi takes it to a absurd degree. To the point I can't see him as a character with legitimate feelings and issues but more along the lines of a plot device to move the harem antics along. He's certainly not the worst I've seen but he seems to be such a blank slate I cannot understand why the girls are interested in him in the first place.

It just means you don't like the series plain and simple, that's fine.

 

[shoyoboyo]

He's certainly not the worst I've seen but he seems to be such a blank slate I cannot understand why the girls are interested in him in the first place.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: welcome to shonen romcoms.

While I don't think that Yuragi is that great of a romcom manga (for the same reasons that you said), I still find myself reading it each week. Something about Yuuna and her character makes me want to root for her.

 

[Doughboy]

You guys see why I'm not much of a sales guy, never in my wildest dreams would I of thought a debate on Yuragi would get edgy.

World's End Harem has legit one good character, the agent of the first MC. All the other characters are just cookie cutouts so it's a mystery on its success. Regarding MCs Kogarashi is deff the best harem MC from a Jump series. Raku and Rito had some good points but it's no contest. But dude from Grisaia or whatever the title is the best one I've ever seen.

 

[SharkBait]

Ichijou (nisekoi) is still the best in the genre followed by Hikitani kun (snafu)

 

[TyVip]

To Love Ru, which was at 3.5 million copies at volume 8 compared to Yuuna's 1.5 million.

edit: Thank you

Spoiler: TLR Sale

159,028 To-LOVE-Ru vol.11

157,866 To-LOVE-Ru vol.12

148,441 To-LOVE-Ru vol.13

106,207 To-LOVE-Ru vol.14

28,217 To-LOVE-Ru vol.14 with OVA

129,490 To-LOVE-Ru vol.15

36,332 To-LOVE-Ru vol.15 with OVA

102,242 To-LOVE-Ru vol.16

88,709 To-LOVE-Ru vol.17

31,631 To-LOVE-Ru vol.17 with OVA

126,490 To-LOVE-Ru vol.18

71,995 To-LOVE-Ru vol.18 with OVA

Spoiler: TLR Darkness sale

130,735 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.1

215,912 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.2

279,317 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.3

165,318 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.4

289,653 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.4

133,314 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol. 5

248,117 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol. 5

58,565 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol. 5 Limited Edition with DVD

178,817 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.6

73,424 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.6 with OVA

298,793 To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.7

196,712 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol.8

64,913 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol.8 - Limited Edition with DVD

159,071 To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.9

91,439 To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.9 (Limited Edition)

251,711　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.10

212,423　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.11

136,832　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.12

42,242　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.12 Limited Edition

281,377　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.14

213,360　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.15

27,070　To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol.15 Limited Edition

262,024　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.17

262,201　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.18

 

[Tanzo]

Not that i don't believe you but do you have a source on this? I couldn't find anything manga sales related pre- 2008 (Oricon starting to publish their sale). If my memory serve me right it has around 10 million in circulation by the time darkness ended? (18 original + 18 darkness = 36 volumes overall), and 3.5 million at volume 8 is a little bit sketchy~

TLR Sale pre 2008 is quite low for 3.5 million in print at volume 8 (unless each volume sold around 200~250k+), and the jump between that and Darkness is impressive.

Spoiler: TLR Sale

159,028 To-LOVE-Ru vol.11

157,866 To-LOVE-Ru vol.12

148,441 To-LOVE-Ru vol.13

106,207 To-LOVE-Ru vol.14

28,217 To-LOVE-Ru vol.14 with OVA

129,490 To-LOVE-Ru vol.15

36,332 To-LOVE-Ru vol.15 with OVA

102,242 To-LOVE-Ru vol.16

88,709 To-LOVE-Ru vol.17

31,631 To-LOVE-Ru vol.17 with OVA

126,490 To-LOVE-Ru vol.18

71,995 To-LOVE-Ru vol.18 with OVA

Spoiler: TLR Darkness sale

130,735 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.1

215,912 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.2

279,317 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.3

165,318 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.4

289,653 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.4

133,314 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol. 5

248,117 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol. 5

58,565 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol. 5 Limited Edition with DVD

178,817 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.6

73,424 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.6 with OVA

298,793 To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.7

196,712 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol.8

64,913 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol.8 - Limited Edition with DVD

159,071 To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.9

91,439 To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.9 (Limited Edition)

251,711　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.10

212,423　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.11

136,832　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.12

42,242　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.12 Limited Edition

281,377　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.14

213,360　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.15

27,070　To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol.15 Limited Edition

262,024　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.17

262,201　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.18

Here: http://www.geocities.jp/wj_log/rank/
1～8巻 累計350万部

 

[shoyoboyo]

Ichijou (nisekoi) is still the best in the genre followed by Hikitani kun (snafu)

Lol no, Ichijo is just as bad if not worse. And while I like 8man as a character, and respect the author for not making him another generic "nice guy" romcom mc, he suffers from the same problem of being a self insert character, although a different kind than Ichijo.

 

[iceemperor]

Not that i don't believe you but do you have a source on this? I couldn't find anything manga sales related pre- 2008 (Oricon starting to publish their sale). If my memory serve me right it has around 10 million in circulation by the time darkness ended? (18 original + 18 darkness = 36 volumes overall), and 3.5 million at volume 8 is a little bit sketchy~

TLR Sale pre 2008 is quite low for 3.5 million in print at volume 8 (unless each volume sold around 200~250k+), and the jump between that and Darkness is impressive.

Spoiler: TLR Sale

159,028 To-LOVE-Ru vol.11

157,866 To-LOVE-Ru vol.12

148,441 To-LOVE-Ru vol.13

106,207 To-LOVE-Ru vol.14

28,217 To-LOVE-Ru vol.14 with OVA

129,490 To-LOVE-Ru vol.15

36,332 To-LOVE-Ru vol.15 with OVA

102,242 To-LOVE-Ru vol.16

88,709 To-LOVE-Ru vol.17

31,631 To-LOVE-Ru vol.17 with OVA

126,490 To-LOVE-Ru vol.18

71,995 To-LOVE-Ru vol.18 with OVA

Spoiler: TLR Darkness sale

130,735 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.1

215,912 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.2

279,317 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.3

165,318 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.4

289,653 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.4

133,314 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol. 5

248,117 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol. 5

58,565 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol. 5 Limited Edition with DVD

178,817 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.6

73,424 To LOVE-Ru Darkness vol.6 with OVA

298,793 To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.7

196,712 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol.8

64,913 To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol.8 - Limited Edition with DVD

159,071 To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.9

91,439 To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.9 (Limited Edition)

251,711　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.10

212,423　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.11

136,832　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.12

42,242　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.12 Limited Edition

281,377　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.14

213,360　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.15

27,070　To LOVE-Ru Darkness Vol.15 Limited Edition

262,024　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.17

262,201　To LOVE-ru Darkness Vol.18

http://dwango.co.jp/pdf/news/service/2008/080421.pdf

This was before the anime was set to air in April 2008. Volume 8 came out on March 4.

http://www.neowing.co.jp/product/ULJS-153

Scroll down to the product description and you'll see "コミック累計360万部突破!(9巻刊行)". This is 3.6 million at volume 9. This is the source that is being used by the Japanese bookkeepers on 5ch and the internet in general, and they tend to be rather strict with making sure these numbers are accurate (whether its to boost their favourite series or bash their hated series).

 

[Halloween]

Well, they can't really show the uncensored version in the magazine, can they?

They could have it censored in the volumes as well, though.