Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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ruggia

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all of this just leave me asking why? what's the point of working on a dead manga?
I guess Usuta makes/made enough to support the family, so she's not too pressured about having to make a living out of it. It's probably easier for her to control the workload with having a kid and all.
 

Silverblade

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Very good post. If I can criticize Oda for anything is that his art can get really clustered nowadays when he tries to input too much per panel and his battle choreography got considerably worse since it reached its peak with Water 7 which would explain why he just outright skips battles not involving Luffy nowadays. Kishi did take too much from Nishio and his art lost all what made it so appealing in the beginning and this is a common habit of many artist (Ohkubo with Soul Eater, Kubo with Bleach etc.).
Oda's fight choreography is still great - when he takes his time to actually show it. A shining example of it is the recent Katakuri fight which gets almost universal acclaim from all around the very broad One Piece audience.
And I try not to make any generalizations about artists changing their styles over time, it's much more complicated - and at the same time interesting to consider every case separately. Even your examples aren't as obvious (Kubo has definitely progressed as an artist compared to his earlier days - but regressed as a comic artist at the same time; Ohkubo keeps growing as artist despite his current serialization limiting his design capabilities etc.)

Weekly serialization is an insane enviroment for an artist.

all of this just leave me asking why? what's the point of working on a dead manga?
Is this a "why does a mangaka do manga" kind of question?
 

Mammo

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it is "why does a mangaka keep working on a dead manga instead of just starting a new one" kind of question
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
and more importantly why does Jump release its volume as a digital only manga when they don't do that for any other manga that sell poorly? what's so special about it?
 

ChocoBar9

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Oda's fight choreography is still great - when he takes his time to actually show it. A shining example of it is the recent Katakuri fight which gets almost universal acclaim from all around the very broad One Piece audience.
I thought the fights in Dressorosa was disappointing honestly with Zoro's fight with Pika being among the worst fights in the series (then again Zoro's fights has deteriorated sharply as the manga went on). A big criticism from what I've seen with his fights nowadays is that he tends to stall which drags them out a lot, of course we remember the infamous birdcage from Dressorosa, even now with the current fight with Katakuri gets bogged down due to frequent switching between events and not much progress being made so a potential good fight will become boring quickly.

And I try not to make any generalizations about artists changing their styles over time, it's much more complicated - and at the same time interesting to consider every case separately. Even your examples aren't as obvious (Kubo has definitely progressed as an artist compared to his earlier days - but regressed as a comic artist at the same time; Ohkubo keeps growing as artist despite his current serialization limiting his design capabilities etc.)
Ohkubo's art was very amateurish before Soul Eater anime so the shift was pretty big though his strong point has never been his character designs rather his technical skill as an artist and his tendency to experiment a lot with shading and detail which actually has not been lost when he stopped doing monthly serializations. I'll say he benefited a lot from anime influence. I'll say Kubo regressed a lot as an artist the more Bleach went on with his only claim to fame being his character designs and even that got bad towards the end where he lost his motivation. I think I just need to see him draw something other than Bleach to see if he really lost his touch or if it was just him getting sick of Bleach.
 

Silverblade

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I thought the fights in Dressorosa was disappointing honestly with Zoro's fight with Pika being among the worst fights in the series (then again Zoro's fights has deteriorated sharply as the manga went on). A big criticism from what I've seen with his fights nowadays is that he tends to stall which drags them out a lot, of course we remember the infamous birdcage from Dressorosa, even now with the current fight with Katakuri gets bogged down due to frequent switching between events and not much progress being made so a potential good fight will become boring quickly.
All of this is connected - with the world expanding and narrative becoming so dense with characters, Oda has to disperse his focus and slow down the pace of the story. Of course, I won't argue that the birdcage was a major factor in slowing down the Dressrosa arc story pace - but the way I figure it, it was the solution Oda came up with to his Straw Hat Grand Fleet plot. Certainly, Oda could have done better, but I don't think that at this point he is interested in stalling for its own sake, it's the opposite, really, he's been 20 years at this and isn't getting any younger. That doesn't change the fact Oda is at his best when he focuses on a single scene. Which I think applies to the Katakuri fight - it's comes in self-contained segments and doesn't get interrupted without need.

And I actually really like the Pica fight - it was different from Zoro's usual modus operandi with him having to figure out and reach his opponent instead while the opponent is terraforming the island itself.

Ohkubo's art was very amateurish before Soul Eater anime so the shift was pretty big though his strong point has never been his character designs rather his technical skill as an artist and his tendency to experiment a lot with shading and detail which actually has not been lost when he stopped doing monthly serializations. I'll say he benefited a lot from anime influence.
Soul Eater anime had some interesting visuals but they were mostly along the same lines that Ohkubo's art has been developing so I don't recall any signficant shift but rather a gradual progression. Initially, he was very heavily inspired by modern street art, and still shows in every aspect of his work, both technical and creative, and especially his strong character design (which has been limited in Enen no Shouboutai somewhat.)

I'll say Kubo regressed a lot as an artist the more Bleach went on with his only claim to fame being his character designs and even that got bad towards the end where he lost his motivation. I think I just need to see him draw something other than Bleach to see if he really lost his touch or if it was just him getting sick of Bleach.
That's why I said that I think he regressed as a comic artist - during the serialization of Bleach he was heavily influenced by anime and cinema to the point his manga came to resemble a storyboard. Which isn't a bad thing on its own and can do wonders if done carefully - but not when it becomes the default look of a comic book with pages of intense camera closeups and dramatically swirling dust or what have you. However, on a technical level he developed by quite a lot. So I agree with you that we need to see a new work of his to find out where exactly does that all put him - for example, his coming one-shot.
 

Tanzo

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Shoseki Ranking (12/11-12/17) - In Top 50
4. One Punch Man #15
5. Haikyuu!! #29
15. Black Clover #14
20. Kekkai Sensen B2B #4
21. Gintama #71
31. New Prince of Tennis #22
32. Kimetsu no Yaiba #9
47. Robot x Laserbeam #3


※30位以下のおおまかな実売目安(推定)
30位20800/50位14450/100位7700/200位4250/300位2850/400位2150/500位1750
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
追加
2/2
ダーリン・イン・ザ・フランキス 1 650

3/2
シューダン! 4 未定
天神−TENJIN− 10 400
尾田栄一郎画集 COLOR WALK8 WOLF 未定


本体価
2/2
サマータイムレンダ 1 400 → 600
さぐりちゃん探検隊 1 438 → 460
彼方のアストラ 5 438 → 490
貧民超人カネナシくん 3 550 → 600


12/19 特重
*全*
*一一*
1/22 クイーン 花に染む 1〜8 くらもち ふさこ

*手*
NEW 1/9 ジャンプ 終末のハーレム 3 宵野 コタロー/LINK
NEW 1/15 ジャンプ 阿波連さんははかれない 1 水 あさと
NEW 1/15 ジャンプ 俺を好きなのはお前だけかよ 1 伊島 ユウ/駱駝/ブリキ
NEW 1/15 ジャンプ 花のち晴れ 〜花男 Next Season〜 1〜3 神尾 葉子
NEW 1/15 ジャンプ 僕のヒーローアカデミア すまっしゅ!! 1、3 根田 啓史/堀越 耕平
1/19 マーガレ ふしぎの国の有栖川さん 2、3 オザキ アキラ
Volume Release Dates:
February 2nd

- Darling in the FrankXX #1
March 2nd
- Shudan! #4 (Final?)
- Tenjin #10
- One Piece Color Walk #8 -Wolf-

Reprints:
1/9 - World's End Harem #3
1/15 - Aharen-san wa Hakarenai #1, Ore wo Suki nano wa Omae dake ka yo #1, Hana Nochi Hare: Hanadan Next Season #1-3, My Hero Academia Smash! #1+3
 

SharkBait

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BLack Clover still dominating.
 

Caiops

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Looks like Black Clover is still not reaching that 200k sales.

what a flop.
 

shoyoboyo

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Who to believe?
:thinking:
 

Caiops

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Black Clover is The Evil Within 2 of the mangas, it needs a trial mode.

No one will understand that reference ;-;
 

cody

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The "youtuber" is back at it again with another quality video
Initial reactions before watching the video: I want to see if I find out anything new or interesting.

-Ok, so this at least confirms that you can fill in the survey digitally for the rankings, that's good.
-They use the top 3 to help determine the ranking.
-They ask people how many series they read in Jump to determine if they're a casual reader or a hardcore dedicated fan.
-They seem to be trying to figure out how to integrate and use the internet better to promote their stuff (they've been brilliant at it so far, as we've seen with the viewbotting incident with Dr. Stone xD)
-They want to know in what format people consume Jump and they want to see how things are changing in the digital landscape
-The rankings from the users are NOT the weekly TOC we get.
-The TOC's order is picked by the editor in chief and the popular manga tend to be in the front.
-The TOC is a good indicator for a manga's popularity, but it doesn't necessarily mean doom for lower ranked stuff. (there are plenty of well established manga that ran in WSJ that were million selling manga that were constantly at the bottom of the TOC and there's also the anomaly Spring Weapon No 1.)

Overall, pretty good. We can't know how things work 100% unless we become a famous mangaka, so good luck guys, better start drawing!
 

TyVip

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So old news, nothing i don't already know. Good vid though.
 

Koi Kage

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The "youtuber" is back at it again with another quality video
The video didn't revel any new information that people who follow WSJ each week didn't already know.

Initial reactions before watching the video: I want to see if I find out anything new or interesting.

-Ok, so this at least confirms that you can fill in the survey digitally for the rankings, that's good.
-They use the top 3 to help determine the ranking.
-They ask people how many series they read in Jump to determine if they're a casual reader or a hardcore dedicated fan.
-They seem to be trying to figure out how to integrate and use the internet better to promote their stuff (they've been brilliant at it so far, as we've seen with the viewbotting incident with Dr. Stone xD)
-They want to know in what format people consume Jump and they want to see how things are changing in the digital landscape
-The rankings from the users are NOT the weekly TOC we get.
-The TOC's order is picked by the editor in chief and the popular manga tend to be in the front.
-The TOC is a good indicator for a manga's popularity, but it doesn't necessarily mean doom for lower ranked stuff. (there are plenty of well established manga that ran in WSJ that were million selling manga that were constantly at the bottom of the TOC and there's also the anomaly Spring Weapon No 1.)

Overall, pretty good. We can't know how things work 100% unless we become a famous mangaka, so good luck guys, better start drawing!
I still don't entirely buy that the editor in chief decides the final placement of the where a series is placed in the TOC depending on his mood that in MY OPINION gives the Editor in Chief way more power then he should over something the company harps the is supposedly a philosophy that the readers decided which series survives or not. Also I take things that mangaka and by some extension editors themselves say in regards to how WSJ operates with a grain of salt because either A.) It's just there own speculation on how it truly works mainly since we don't know how much their editors are allowed to share with them on things like that, and B.) I wouldn't be surprised if the former Editor in Chief was not being truthful since to me WSJ would have some sort of gag-order on all employees and former employees that restricts them from reveling company secrets. That's not to say I believe that the TOC is a 1:1 with the actual rankings but there is still information that we are missing in regards to that and I honestly don't think it has to do with the editor in chiefs mood of the week.
 
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jagman1x3

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Yes, the company secret of what order the series will be in must be protected at all costs.
Taps earpiece
What's that?
Sorry, I've just been informed that this information was available to literally everyone before he leaked it. Call off the hit squad, we might still be able to save him if we're fast enough!
 

cody

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As someone who hasn't been following weekly magazines for that long, this was nice.
 

Ninjaz

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I don't think this video was made for those that follow WSJ as closely as a lot of people here do to begin with.
Anyways, personally I appreciated that he showed us an actual example of the reader's survey, as I had never bothered to check them out since I'm not voting myself.
---------
Also, I'm a bit shocked that Black Clover didn't seem to get any significant boost for the new volumes of the manga yet. Unless it's actually not as well received as it should, I'd expect to see more of a rise. However, I guess the most noticeable part of its "boost" has yet to come considering we're still in the anime's first cour.
 

shoyoboyo

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I haven't watched it yet, but from the information that cody said, it doesn't seem like it's anything new that I didn't already know.
 

Franz

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Looks like Black Clover is still not reaching that 200k sales.

what a flop.
Is a ironic post, right ?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Also, I'm a bit shocked that Black Clover didn't seem to get any significant boost for the new volumes of the manga yet.
He received it. Last week was fifth.

That said, it is actually very rare that the views of a volume can increase over time.
 

SharkBait

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Theres several other manga youtubers who already provided explanations and other views on jump ratings years ago.

I dont know why people are advertising youtubers here.Should we go back to posting forever world videos and others too?
 
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