Discussion What is a True Pirate King?

[Hannibal Psyche]

Was there Yonkou during Roger's time? Shiki's statement doesn't necessarily mean Roger was an obstacle for Whitebeard, it could mean that after Jolly Roger pirates broke up, there was no one tough or good enough to go against Whitebeard. I see Whitebeard as not caring as much about becoming the pirate king as he did about his crew, whom he considered like his sons. Could also be that he never thought himself as worthy as Roger.

"Yon" in Yonko, means 4, Yonko is 4 Emperors. An Emperor is someone who has power+great influence over a region of the New World. The concept of ruling over a portion of the New World can't be something newly established, there are always ambitious people around.

In my opinion, it's like asking if Pirates existed before Roger, I'm pretty sure Pirates have always existed, why wouldn't they exist? Pirates have always existed, would it be valid to ask if "Ambitious Pirates" existed? Surely, Ambitious Pirates have always existed. If Ambitious Pirates have existed, then why wouldn't such a Pirate want to rule the world or firstly, rule a region of the Grand Line? It's human nature to be ambitious, so Emperors would have existed in that era too.

The only thing that may change is the title given to such people. Now we don't really have Kings or Emperors, we have Presidents and Prime ministers, they essentially do the same thing and essentially mean the same thing. Even if we didn't have Emperors in the past or during the older generation's era, there'd have been a title that referred to such persons nonetheless.

Therefore, logically speaking, there must have been Emperors. Whitebeard and Shiki (with the greatest Armada on the sea at that time) were both the most influential in the sea at that time, so they must have been Emperors, I can't imagine it being a new concept.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2016 ---

Good point. But Usopp did said that if Luffy reaches the final island of the Grand Line, he would be Pirake King:

The only explanation I could give is that by reaching the final island, Roger conquered the Grand Line. The pirates of New World spread the world, and the entire world knew Roger conquered the Grand Line, even without knowing how.

Usopp may have said it, but he's a coward and it isn't practical. It'd be like Buggy finding One Piece, there's no way he'd just become Pirate King. Anyone could defeat him, therefore, he couldn't be Pirate King.

Also, we're told conquer, conquering isn't finding something, conquering is to do with defeat.

Spoiler

When we were told that Blackbeard Conquered Whitebeard's territory, I doubt anyone was thinking that he simply just found it, he fought to take it over; conquering is an antagonistic word.

1. What did Rayleigh say to Luffy when he said he'd be Pirate King and find One Piece? He said your enemies will be "strong", can you really "conquer" this wild sea?
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2. Chinjao says Pirate King is the Pirate who defeats all Pirate King contenders. - Strength Implications
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3. Chinjao asks if he's strong enough to defeat Admirals and Yonko like Roger after saying he'll be Pirate King. - Strength implications
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4. Sengoku says Shiki can't defeat Roger being that he's Pirate King.Finding treasure surely can't be a reason why someone can defeat another person, Pirate King denotes supremacy in strength between a Pirate and all other Pirates - Strength Implications
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5. Akainu says Roger stopped Whitebeard from becoming Pirate King. - Strength implications
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6. Coby said death is imminent in becoming Pirate King because of strong pirates - Strength Implications/Defeating Strong Opponents
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7. Luffy saying a Pirate King defeats both Yonko and Admirals- Strength Claims
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8. Blackbeard saying this is his age (aka heir to the throne or Pirate King) only after he deems himself the strongest. - Strength Claims
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   Lastly, even Blackbeard says it's his age ONLY after he's certain he's the strongest. If it's not obvious who Pirate King is based on the evidence, then I think we'll just agree to disagree because there's not much to support the claim the majority made by yourself and many others.

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The only requirement is to be strong enough to Conquer the Grand Line and then Conquer it, that's all one needs to be Pirate King

Reaching an Island is insignificant, the only obstacle behind reaching an Island is the opponents that you'll come to face with. It's whether you can defeat them that determines how one becomes Pirate King.

Also, if people know that One Piece exists, why is it that the only people to mention Raftel are Crocus, Inuarashi, Nekomamushi and Robin? It's because they reached the final Island, or read the Poneglyph, it's not something the world knows.

Spoiler

Does the world even know Roger went to SKypiea? No, many people doubted it. If they can't even believe Skypiea, the surely wouldn't believe Raftel.

Saying that in order to become the Pirate King you have to be the strong is like that in order to win a race, you must be the fastest runner. In reality, you only have to reach the finish line first. You could win because you used a shortcut, another competitor broke his knee, etc. The same goes to becoming the Pirate King, the finish line is Raftel.

Raftel is not a race, how can people crown one King for reaching an Island they do not know exist? There's no panel in the entire Manga or Anime that states that whoever gets to Raftel first is Pirate King. It's always to do with conquering.

It doesn't say Pirate King is whomever reaches Raftel, it says whomever conquers the Grand Line. Raftel is not the Grand Line, it's a destination. Conquering has nothing to do with reaching a place first.

Spoiler

Why isn't Rayleigh, Oden or Crocus Pirate King since they reached Raftel with Roger? Instead, the closest person to being Pirate King was Whitebeard who never got to Raftel or even owns Road Poneglyph. It's not a race, it's to do with proving power which Roger did. If reaching Raftel was how one became King, then Rayleigh should be crowned Pirate King by default. In fact, the entire crew should be regarded as Pirate King, it's not like Roger reached there without help. However, that's not the case, Roger is Pirate King because he defeated all the strong, the people in it are regarded as the Pirate King''s crew, not sharing the title with him.

When we hear the British conquered the French, do we assume they reached France? It becomes a confusing statement. We know it's to do with defeat, conquer is a word that denotes to being victorious in war.

And again, why doesn't anyone question Roger being Pirate King, but question the existence of One Piece?

Doflamingo said there was no one ruling as the Pirate King. Whitebeard was #1 of the pirates, he was anything but the Pirate King. I don't think that's related to the role of the Yonko.

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Whitebeard was considered closet to the throne, he was even called King of the Sea by Garp; he ruled before the throne, he just never took the throne.

Spoiler

Whitebeard defeated Bigmam and Kaido as they fought over hi for territory, only person he didn't defeat was Shanks. So, he couldn't have been Pirate King. He wasn't even active, during Marineford war, people began to doubt him since he had become inactive. He stopped being ambitious and settled down rather than prove his supremacy over the seas.

Also, Garp said the Marine and Shichibukai exist to counterbalance the Yonko. Since it appears the Shichibukai didn't always existed, doesn't that imply that neither did the Yonko?

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Shichibukai and Yonko are 2 different roles, they really can't be compared. The role of Shichibukai is to deter people from turning into Pirates, as long as they've proved their strength (even if it's fake like Buggy) and have a reputation, they will fill the position.

Emperors are Pirates who rule over a region of the New World with great influence, they're not roles given, they're positions taken by force. Why wouldn't there be a Pirate who wanted to prove his superiority over the Grand Line? Why wouldn't Pirates of influence exist? It's like asking if Leaders existed in the past, of course they did. Whatever name they call it is not really important, the role is the same nonetheless. In a place as unruly as the Grand Line, order will be needed.

And when Garp was talking about balance between Shichibukai, Yonko and Marines, it's political balance. Whitebeard died and what happened? The seas turned to blood because people tried to fill his position. When Shichibukai lose their influence like Moriah, what happens? People look at them as weak and decide to become Pirates. Instability between any of the 3 great powers will result in chaos; it's not that the Marines need the Shichibukai, or else, Fujitora wouldn't be campaigning against their treaty. They created the Shichibukai for political influence and to sell an image of their strength to the public.

 

[Fox666]

You don't have to provide such a long response, I would prefer if you just addressed the main points...

Also, we're told conquer, conquering isn't finding something, conquering is to do with defeat.

Conquering has a lot of meanings, as in "conquering a mountain". However I admit I do not know the Japanese word for it.

Raftel is not a race

It was an analogy, I wasn't saying finding One Piece is literally a race...

Whitebeard was considered closet to the throne, he was even called King of the Sea by Garp; he ruled before the throne, he just never took the throne.

According to Buggy, Whitebeard was also the closest man to find One Piece. And Roger told him about Raftel, meaning Whitebeard did not get there because he did not want to. That's consistent with the idea of him standing in front of a throne, but never taking it.

Whitebeard defeated Bigmam and Kaido as they fought over hi for territory, only person he didn't defeat was Shanks. So, he couldn't have been Pirate King. He wasn't even active, during Marineford war, people began to doubt him since he had become inactive. He stopped being ambitious and settled down rather than prove his supremacy over the seas.

I don't think it was ever implied that Whitebeard didn't become Pirate King because he couldn't defeat Shanks. From what I understood, Whitebeard was not interested in becoming Pirate King, and just wanted a family.

Shichibukai and Yonko are 2 different roles

I never said otherwise. My point is that the World Government created the Shichibukai in order to counter-balance the Yonko. So there may not have been anything like the Yonko before.

It's like if you was told the SWAT started to use assault rifles 10 years ago because there are too many criminals using bulletproof vests. You would presume that wasn't the case before that time.

Why wouldn't there be a Pirate who wanted to prove his superiority over the Grand Line? Why wouldn't Pirates of influence exist? It's like asking if Leaders existed in the past, of course they did. Whatever name they call it is not really important, the role is the same nonetheless. In a place as unruly as the Grand Line, order will be needed.

There must have been greedy or influential pirates. Just like Doflamingo became the king of Dressrosa. However there may not have been anything like the Yonko, since it means a pirate claimed ¼ of the New World as his territory.

 

[kkck]

I guess only time will tell, since we know so little about the yonkou, when they were established, who all else was one, if there were only three/two/five/whatever at a time, etc. I'm personally betting on:

1. Roger competed actively with Whitebeard, Mom, and Kaidou in the New World and had equal territories- called 'four emperors' derogatorily by the WG (more propaganda, I imagine), the shichibukai system was instated as a counterbalance.
2. Roger took the title of Pirate King shortly after contracting an 'illness' and very shortly before turning himself in. He was ruling all the seas in that time, but once he kicks it the three remaining yonkou fight over his old territory; chaos ensues for that part of the world for quite a while.
3. All crew members go into hiding, as it was probably Roger's last wish to them when he disbanded the crew. They stay out of New World vs. WG politics. This leaves the apprentices on Roger's ship as the closest possible contenders for Roger's territory.
4. Buggy is Buggy and we don't know of any others. I'm pretty sure Shanks is some sort of Minato/Itachi-tier genius with haki that followed a similar path of reckless 'help people be free' escapades as Luffy before being able to compete with his old Captain's rivals.

I can imagine Shanks's "early life Luffy escapades" taking place in Roger's old territory as he desperately tries to liberate island after island from the hoard of rival pirates eager to get in on his Captain's treasure and territory. Maybe Whitebeard saw his potential and gave him a hand until he could stand as a yonkou himself?

Roger didn't "take" the title pirate king. If we consider the shiki bit it is a title the goverment gave him, presumably as some propaganda nonsense. Looking at the manga there is precisely zero evidence that roger held control over some territory. His crew was limited to what could fit in the oro jackson, we even saw him go against shiki's actual fleet. Even now the manga has never alluded to anything like "roger's former territory". We do know roger's pirate career lasted some 20 years but at least as of their final voyage nothing about territory has ever been mentioned or even implied.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Roger took the title of Pirate King shortly after contracting an 'illness' and very shortly before turning himself in. He was ruling all the seas in that time, but once he kicks it the three remaining yonkou fight over his old territory; chaos ensues for that part of the world for quite a while.

Pirate King is whomever conquers the Grand Line, and that's what Roger did.

Spoiler

Roger just like Luffy doesn't want to rule the Grand Line, that's what Yonko do and that's why they gain territory. We see Bigmam has 34 Islands under Totland. A Pirate King would ideally progress from a Yonko, but all one needs to do is conquer it; a Yonko would become Pirate King if they controlled the entire Grand Line which is what majority of Pirates hopes to achieve after conquering. That's why even Mihawk who is a lone warrior is regarded as potential for becoming Pirate King despite not having claim to significant territory or an armada.

Conquering is done by defeating; controlling is an option after conquering. Roger just didn't want to control, he just wanted to be free to do as he pleased. Due to Roger's identical ideals with Luffy, we know for certain he never claimed or owned territory a la Yonko.

 

[kkck]

I don't remember anyone mentioning mihawk as a potential candidate for pirate king....

And even now the manga has never presented evidence that he ever controlled territory in the same way the yonko control it today. Or that he ever lead massive fleets. He probably had plenty of allies which he could have summoned at will though. In any case, we have never heard of roger controlled territory so far. And from what I can tell what the manga means when it comes to conquering the grand line is to make it to the very end of it rather than actually controlling territory. Luffy might end up controlling territory but it will likely be in the same way he has a fleet.... A bunch of people waving his flag without luffy formally being the boss. Luffy ultimately is not the type to sit down and make boring macro decisions regarding the financial well being of multiple black markets which would be under his territory as other yonko are obviously doing....

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I don't remember anyone mentioning mihawk as a potential candidate for pirate king....

And even now the manga has never presented evidence that he ever controlled territory in the same way the yonko control it today. Or that he ever lead massive fleets. He probably had plenty of allies which he could have summoned at will though. In any case, we have never heard of roger controlled territory so far. And from what I can tell what the manga means when it comes to conquering the grand line is to make it to the very end of it rather than actually controlling territory. Luffy might end up controlling territory but it will likely be in the same way he has a fleet.... A bunch of people waving his flag without luffy formally being the boss. Luffy ultimately is not the type to sit down and make boring macro decisions regarding the financial well being of multiple black markets which would be under his territory as other yonko are obviously doing....

Mihawk's image was included in those with potential to be Pirate King.

Spoiler

Mihawk and Weevil who are individuals with little to no following, are mentioned here as potentials, who may take the throne which is essentially referring to being Pirate King.

Being a Yonko requires following and territory; a Pirate King merely has to defeat these territorial obstacles who are the Yonko. Most people aim to conquer the Grand Line with a desire to further territory, Luffy just wants to conquer without accumulating territory, he just wants to explore and have adventures like Roger.

Also never stated Roger acquired territory (just said/implied he conquered the territorial rulers), except you're responding to someone else.

 

[M3J]

A pirate king doesn't have to beat the Yonkou or anyone, he just has to make it to the end of Raftel or further and then back. Being strong helps because it means he can beat enemies who stand in his way.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

A pirate king doesn't have to beat the Yonkou or anyone, he just has to make it to the end of Raftel or further and then back. Being strong helps because it means he can beat enemies who stand in his way.

Nope, it never says that anywhere in the Manga.

You cna't be Pirate King without defeating Yonko. No where in the Manga does it say whomever makes it to Raftel is Pirate King. If being Pirate King meant reaching Raftel, then you'd have to ask why isn't Rayleigh, Crocus or Oden regarded as Pirate King after Roger died? and why is it that Whitebeard who has never been to Raftel or know it's whereabouts regarded as the closest to the throne?

Coby tells us Pirate King is whoever conquers the Grand Line, nothing to do with finding Raftel.

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Luffy says the same thing to, have to defeat Yonko to be Pirate King.

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Chinjao says it too, same thing, defeat (conquer).

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When Blackbeard defeated the WB Pirates, what did they say he did? They say he conquered Whitebeard's territory. Conquering can only be done by defeating. Conquering has nothing to do with finding Raftel or One Piece. Only reason One Piece has any relation to being Pirate King is because it causes all the great Pirates to fight, meaning, only the strongest would find it in the end.

Have to also bare in mind, people regarded Roger as Pirate King for conquering, not for finding Raftel. People have no idea that Raftel exists. Can't regard someone as King for doing something that can't be confirmed or known about. How can people even know about Raftel when people don't even know or believe Sky Island even exists?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Conquering has a lot of meanings, as in "conquering a mountain". However I admit I do not know the Japanese word for it.

However, the word Conquer is, it denotes to defeating, not finishing a race. Just the fact it always says "strong enemies" before asking Luffy if he can conquer, implies it's alluding to the general meaning of Conquer which is to defeat.

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Moriah before the Strawhats arrived at Sabaody makes the same remark, he says their strength is inadequate to survive in the New World; Strength is the focus, and strength is what's used to defeat enemies, not getting to Raftel first.

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Moriah again tells us if he defeated Kaido, he'd be closer to Pirate King.

The context in which Conquer is being used is not similar to the context in Conquer would be used in claiming to "conquer a mountain". It's always conquer the sea because of the powerful opponents in it. There's a great amount of reference to this:

• Coby says its impossible to be Pirate King in this age because of the powerful Pirates, he even asks Luffy if he wants to die.

And as the panel showed, Blackbeard conquered Whitebeard's territory, we wouldn't be thinking conquer in this context has the same meaning as scaling a great mountain or traversing the sea, but defeat.

Also, if it really is about sailing the sea per se, then Nami should be the one being called Pirate King as she's the navigator. However, the title is attributed to the strongest.

Take this panel for example:

• He's Pirate King , you can't defeat him.

If Pirate King = Getting to Raftel . . . then, Sengoku is saying because Roger arrived at an Island, he'd defeat Shiki, that's not a very logical thing to say. Reaching an Island can't be reason why someone is going to defeat someone.

Unless Pirate King is denoting to strength, it doesn't make sense; it meaning Strongest rationalizes the statement as it means, because Roger is the strongest, he's going to defeat you.

According to Buggy, Whitebeard was also the closest man to find One Piece. And Roger told him about Raftel, meaning Whitebeard did not get there because he did not want to. That's consistent with the idea of him standing in front of a throne, but never taking it.

Possible, but why would Akainu and Joker know that Roger visited Whitebeard? Was most likely unknown to the world. It's unlikely that Buggy even knows that Roger and Whitebeard had this conversation.

Roger disbanded his crew 1 by 1 after he became Pirate King. The only people who know about One Piece and Raftel are Rayleigh, Crocus and Oden; the entire Roger crew didn't get to Raftel and learn the secrets of the world which explains why they don't all know about Raftel or One Piece.

Buggy was probably one of the first to leave:

Spoiler: Buggy didn't reach Raftel

The evidence is this, with the context that Roger disbanded some of his crew 1 by 1 and knowledge that only few of his crew members learnt about the Void Century and know where One Piece is, it explains why the likes of Buggy is looking for One Piece despite having been a crew member of the Roger Pirates, he was likely one of the first to be disbanded and possibly along with Shanks:He was a coward.

Spoiler

He despised the Roger Pirate's attitude towards treasure.

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Buggy also wasn't a loyal Roger Pirate, he was an opportunist. He planned to steal the the Slice Slice no Mi that the Roger Pirates found, and run away with it, along with a treasure map which as stated earlier, Buggy wasn't loyal.

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He's enraged by Luffy's claim to be Pirate King, why? Because he's also looking for One Piece as it's also a treasure, and he's resolved with himself that all treasure will belong to him.

Spoiler

Based on everything known about Buggy, if he had been to Raftel and being that he's an opportunist who prioritises Gold over anything, he'd have stolen One Piece treasure, but it's pretty clear he couldn't because he was never one of the Roger Pirates to make it to Raftel, and was disbanded before this part of Roger's ventures.

I don't think it was ever implied that Whitebeard didn't become Pirate King because he couldn't defeat Shanks. From what I understood, Whitebeard was not interested in becoming Pirate King, and just wanted a family.

It's not that he couldn't defeat Shanks, but not defeating Shanks is reason he's not PK; he was literally a recluse after Roger's death in terms of activeness in the Grand Line. Even Marco said Shanks is not foolish enough to start a war Whitebeard when he clashed swords because Whitebeard was the strongest.

We know Shanks and Whitebeard hadn't met in over 22+ years, therefore didn't fight, because Whitebeard more or implies he's not seen Shanks since he was a cabin boy, and even congratulated Shanks on climbing up the ranks. If they had met before or while he was a Yonko, Whitebeard wouldn't be congratulating him, he'd have said that in their first encounter and wouldn't need to mention it now.

After Roger's death, who was holding Whitebeard back from claiming this age? No one, and he still didn't become Pirate King. With no one there to hold him back, it means when he was held back, he was aiming to be Pirate King.

The reason I say this is because prior to Roger's death, Shiki tells us that Roger was the wall stopping both Whitebeard and Shiki from progressing and this implies he did aim to be Pirate King at this time.

There must have been greedy or influential pirates. Just like Doflamingo became the king of Dressrosa. However there may not have been anything like the Yonko, since it means a pirate claimed ¼ of the New World as his territory.

Not necessarily, just owning a huge portion is all that's required. Yonko is 4 Emperors, it's not necessary for 4 to exist for one to now be regarded as an Emperor. Even after Whitebeard died, they were all still regarded as Emperors, therefore, it implies that he was prior to Roger's death, aiming for the Throne. Unless Whitebeard wasn't aiming for anything, he'd never been stopped by Roger.

There's just no way that Emperor's didn't exist in Roger's era, why wouldn't Whitebeard or Shiki have been Emperors? Why would Shiki have said it's Whitebeards era after Roger died if he wasn't at least, an Emperor by status if not by name which is trivial?

The lack of a designated name or title for something isn't evidence the lack of existence of a concept or status; one can have loads of money, just because this individual hasn't been given the title as "wealthy" doesn't mean he's not wealthy.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2016 ---

One Piece Chapter 434 was written in 2006.​

The Movie Strongworld was released in 2009.​

​

Oda only released Strongworld in 2009, but he already wanted to involve Shiki (since 2006) in Chapter 434 of Volume 45 which was written in... 2006, before Strong World was created. We should consider as stated in the Manga, that Shiki is still uncaught and Strong-world is completely non-canon as are all other movies.

Spoiler

​

And he says that in his mind, that Shiki is one of the big legendary Pirates in his mind, but didn't add his name in the list there, as to not confuse readers meaning Shiki is canon; Shiki is up there with Whitebeard as would have been mentioned in chapter 434 , therefore, we should consider him canon and uncaught meaning the likelihood of his reappearance is extremely likely.

This I believe supports the concept of Big Pirates/Emperors in the Roger's era being that they were the most influential and of course, including Shiki.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 5, 2016 ---

So, we know why Bigmam was fighting Whitebeard and we know her intentions, she wants the entire Grand Line to be a part of "Totland" which is why she fought Whitebeard for his territory. If she needs to expand her territory, then it means she needs to defeat Blackbeard, Shanks and Kaido. If she defeats them, it means she's conquered the Grand Line, and can therefore expand her territory, and can then become Pirate King.

 

[M3J]

Conquering is due to enemies standing in the way. If the Yonkou wouldn't oppose Luffy, then there'd be no reason to fight them, regardless of Luffy's strength, and he could become a pirate king. and as far as I'm aware, none of the three names you listed were a captain, that was Roger. If the scene with Shiki is canon, Roger didn't win by being stronger, he won by luck because the storm took out a lot of Shiki's ships. That to me says a pirate king doesn't have to be the strongest, he just has to be able to win one way or another.

Whitebeard was considered the closest to the throne likely because he was immensely strong and if so desired, he could have become the pirate king. Even at his weakest, it still took a lot for him to die.

Because finding Raftel is almost equivalent to conquering the New World? Shows power and ability to survive the harshest of conditions and all.

 

[XXGenesis]

To become Pirate King you must sail across the Grand & RedLine & make it to Raftel......You have to make it to the mysterious & last island Raftel to become the Pirate King...What is secrets or treasure lies there is for another debate....

No one weak is going to accomplish this. For the simple fact the Natural dangers of the ocean & other hazardous or life threatening environments on other islands & such, takes Strentgh & skill to overcome....& Taking out the YonKou's isn't super nessacary but you would have to take at least 2 of them down; They would inevitably challenege you or stand in your way; WG & Admirals alike.


YonKou- Are conqueres with great influence on the seas....WB had territories; However he claimed these locations to either protect them from pirates/criminals or simply hang out spots, like how Shanks hung out on Luffy's island.

The other Yonkou's..shank's aside. Use their territories, military might & influence as literally emperors. Their agenda's are more along the lines of domination.


Luffy & Roger's Piracy's Policies & behavior are pretty parallel. Luffy will become the Pirate King & Rule the seas so to say....That wouldn't be Luffy's intention to rule but he would have territories for the simple fact he would be praised by many countries & islands for once being of help to them; whether he's a wanted pirate or not he would be welcomed there.....Also Luffy doesn't care to have a huge pirate crew or subordinates, however it's unavoidable he already has 5,600 members from several pirates crews who will support Luffy whenever in need, similar to WB.....Roger in pretty sure happened to him the same way...defeating & overcoming all obstacles becoming the Pirate King

 

[ProGoddess]

I totally agree with many of you who said that being a pirate king, one would require to be strong and skillful in order to face the various obstacles, whether it's the nature or people, or whatever that comes his way.

Besides having to face the harsh weather and environment, the one who aims to get to the "finish line" will evidently face extremely strong opponents (or enemies) who are also aiming to reach Raftel, or others like the World Government, Cipher Pol and Marines who are opposing with the intention of capturing pirates. It's also obvious that lots of pirates are aiming to become a pirate king too.

I feel that being a pirate king is not only about strength, power and skill. They are no doubt important as these qualities will help the person to overcome many obstacles with lesser risk of dying. When I look at Luffy, the answer is there. He appears silly (baka) and care-free, and enjoys everything that comes his way. I can say he is a typical "happy go lucky" person, as if there is no worries in this world and his adventures are for fun and excitement. Though he appears that way, he still gain many people's trust and respect. It's clear by now that we know he values people and he makes friends with others as long as they are not coming at him as evil enemies, otherwise he will be able to get his friendliness across.

I believe the true value of being a pirate king besides being strong, powerful and skillful which is outward appearance, the person's character plays a huge role as well. If a person who has the physical quality but has an evil heart, he will likely not gain that much trust and respect from all the pirates of One Piece World. Even I can't acknowledge that person to be a pirate king, what more about them? In our real world, those we think who do not qualify say as a president, we will not vote for him/her. We also have some who got shot to death, haven't we?

Let's look at it at a smaller scale in One Piece World. In Dressrosa, we have king Riku and king Doflamingo. After the truth was out about how evil Doflamingo (and his crew) was, he immediate lost the respect and trust from his subjects. At the end, after the misunderstanding was cleared, all the citizens wanted king Riku to be their king again.

King Riku is definitely not an extremely strong fighter, he appears to be an ordinary king who has the love for his people and country. Though he may not acquire strong economic growth like what Doflamingo did (with his artificial devil fruit and weapons), but he gains much respect and trust from his subjects. Even Fujitora respected him as he bowed down to apologise and to ask him to regain his throne.

Luffy on the other hand, has the similar quality - a person who loves and cares for the people around him, and coupled with his sense of justice, he has helped many people and gained plenty of acquaintances and friends, and most of all, his beloved crewmates who trust and respect him the most.

Though Roger's story is not fully told (which I hope it will, perhaps a spin-off will be nice), but I believe the author is using his shadows like Luffy, to portray to us what really is a true pirate king.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

To become Pirate King you must sail across the Grand & RedLine & make it to Raftel.

This has never been stated in the Manga as how one becomes Pirate King.

No one has been to Raftel besides Roger and his crew and the world does not know it exists. How can people crown someone king for something they don't know was achieved or have a clue about? It's like the world crowning Luffy as Pirate King, and someone says he's Pirate King for reaching the City of Gold, it's not possible to crown someone king or accredit one a title for something that's unknown. People even ridicule the existence of One Piece and unproven claims.

People don't question Roger's title as Pirate King, but they question the existence of One Piece which means neither One Piece no Raftel have direct correlation for one becoming King.

I totally agree with many of you who said that being a pirate king, one would require to be strong and skillful in order to face the various obstacles, whether it's the nature or people, or whatever that comes his way.

Besides having to face the harsh weather and environment, the one who aims to get to the "finish line" will evidently face extremely strong opponents (or enemies) who are also aiming to reach Raftel, or others like the World Government, Cipher Pol and Marines who are opposing with the intention of capturing pirates. It's also obvious that lots of pirates are aiming to become a pirate king too.

I feel that being a pirate king is not only about strength, power and skill. They are no doubt important as these qualities will help the person to overcome many obstacles with lesser risk of dying. When I look at Luffy, the answer is there. He appears silly (baka) and care-free, and enjoys everything that comes his way. I can say he is a typical "happy go lucky" person, as if there is no worries in this world and his adventures are for fun and excitement. Though he appears that way, he still gain many people's trust and respect. It's clear by now that we know he values people and he makes friends with others as long as they are not coming at him as evil enemies, otherwise he will be able to get his friendliness across.

I believe the true value of being a pirate king besides being strong, powerful and skillful which is outward appearance, the person's character plays a huge role as well. If a person who has the physical quality but has an evil heart, he will likely not gain that much trust and respect from all the pirates of One Piece World. Even I can't acknowledge that person to be a pirate king, what more about them? In our real world, those we think who do not qualify say as a president, we will not vote for him/her. We also have some who got shot to death, haven't we?

Let's look at it at a smaller scale in One Piece World. In Dressrosa, we have king Riku and king Doflamingo. After the truth was out about how evil Doflamingo (and his crew) was, he immediate lost the respect and trust from his subjects. At the end, after the misunderstanding was cleared, all the citizens wanted king Riku to be their king again.

King Riku is definitely not an extremely strong fighter, he appears to be an ordinary king who has the love for his people and country. Though he may not acquire strong economic growth like what Doflamingo did (with his artificial devil fruit and weapons), but he gains much respect and trust from his subjects. Even Fujitora respected him as he bowed down to apologise and to ask him to regain his throne.

Luffy on the other hand, has the similar quality - a person who loves and cares for the people around him, and coupled with his sense of justice, he has helped many people and gained plenty of acquaintances and friends, and most of all, his beloved crewmates who trust and respect him the most.

Though Roger's story is not fully told (which I hope it will, perhaps a spin-off will be nice), but I believe the author is using his shadows like Luffy, to portray to us what really is a true pirate king.

We have people like Blackbeard who are candidates for Pirate King, so we can be certain that personality or such qualities will have no impact on one becoming Pirate King. Let's not forget that Roger was hated by the world, he wasn't someone the world looked up to and decided to crown king. His character was disdained, except those who fought him had respect for him (who still regarded him as an enemy), but we know it's not these Pirates who regarded him as King, but the entire world, who as a majority, reviled him.

We also have to question the concept of a finish line as it implies whomever gets to Raftel first. It's not really been implied as a race, but more as a battle-royale of a sort where the victor will be the only one able to progress to Raftel due to defeating all opponents. Were it to really be considered a race, then Roger wouldn't be Pirate King, but his crew would be. However, we know it's Roger, so we know his title is alluding to a feat that he pulled that distinguished him from not just his crew, but the rest of Pirates out there.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 6, 2016 ---

I was always under the impression the impression that Roger conquered the Grand Line (defeated the Yonko & opposing Admirals), became Pirate King, and then journeyed to Raftel. It seems he defeated his opponents, journeyed to Raftel and then became Pirate King.

Part of this was due to the fact that it was Roger who created One Piece which is the gold that he accumulated and stored at Raftel.

My mistake however is forgetting that One Piece is both Treasure (a lure that Roger devised) and the entire collection of the information on the Poneglyph (World history + Ancient Weapons that have existed for 900+ years).

I assumed that since One Piece (Treasure) wasn't in existence, no one was looking for the other part of One Piece, the truly important aspect of it that has existed even before the treasure, Raftel and the Poneglyphs.

Though, Pirates in Roger's era weren't looking for One Piece (Treasure that Roger hadn't yet devised and thus, didn't yet exist), they were nonetheless looking for the Poneglyphs & Raftel which has existed for 900+ years. If Pirates had been to the Island at the end of the log-pose, these Pirates would learn of the Poneglyphs and Raftel's existence; ultimately, the Pirates who made it this far will be in contention for it; this also implies that only Pirates who were deep in the New World would be aware of this.

Note: Not many people became Pirates until Roger started the age of Pirates.

The greatest Pirates of the era who were aware of this; Roger as we know was privy to Poneglyphs & Raftel; Whitebeard went to Wano and met with Oden, someone who is acquainted with the Poneglyph's inscriptions; Shiki knew about the existence of the Poneglyphs. Due to the lack of Pirates at this time, only few people were aware of Raftel, Poneglyphs and the secrets inscribed on it.

They all wanted to obtain the secret of the world, this is why they fought each other. Whoever won would be known as the Strongest Pirate in the world & conqueror of the Grand line, however, unless the progress to obtain this secret of the world by getting to Raftel, they wouldn't be recognized as Pirate King.

In conclusion, Pirate King is whomever can both conquer the Grand Line (defeat Yonko & Admirals) and obtain the secret of the world by journeying to Raftel. Whitebeard never did, but was the closest to doing so after Roger died due to his strength and the Intel he'd probably acquired whilst in contention with Roger.

The difference between the Pirates of Roger's era, and the Pirates post-Roger is, the Pirates in Roger's era were not oblivious to what they were trying to obtain, while the pirates of this era are since they assume it's merely treasure.

Will be updating the OP in light of newly acquired inference.

 

[hokageji]

"What is One Piece?" You really cant answer if its related to the Pirate King or not without answering this question. It could be something that makes one Powerful, like for instance a weapon. One can easily become a Pirate King by that...
As far as why people question the existence of One Piece, it could have to do with what the WG has been doing.

As far as I know, Govt would care less about one ruler of the sea than a revelation that discovery of One Piece would lead to.

From WB's last words, "One Piece exists" and Sengoku's reaction, it is clearly something of great importance. If you can be a pirate king without getting One Piece, so be it, but you will never be better than Roger. Then whats the point of the title or ruling the seas???

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

"What is One Piece?" You really cant answer if its related to the Pirate King or not without answering this question. It could be something that makes one Powerful, like for instance a weapon. One can easily become a Pirate King by that...
As far as why people question the existence of One Piece, it could have to do with what the WG has been doing.

As far as I know, Govt would care less about one ruler of the sea than a revelation that discovery of One Piece would lead to.

From WB's last words, "One Piece exists" and Sengoku's reaction, it is clearly something of great importance. If you can be a pirate king without getting One Piece, so be it, but you will never be better than Roger. Then whats the point of the title or ruling the seas???

We know what it is, Whitebeard said it:

Whitebeard:That will has been passed down from long ago!! And in the future,,,someday, a man will appear, bearing the weight of the centuries of history on his shoulders to challenge the world. Sengoku... Your World Government is afraid... afraid of the coming war that will engulf the world!!! I wasn't interested, but when someone finds that treasure... the world will be shaken to its core!! Somebody will find it...that day will certainly come.

Queen Otohime: It is further told that one will appear with the power to guide that Mermaid - to guide Shirahoshi, to show her the right path, and the correct way to user her ability. And it is said that when that time comes, a great change will come upon the world...!!!

• Bearing the weight of centuries = Poneglyph
• Challenging the world = Ancient Weapons

All this will happen when someone finds it as Whitebeard said, therefore, we can infer that One Piece is the Rio-Poneglyph, the total accumulation of the Poneglyphs to learn the history of the world and the collection of the Ancient Weapons to challenge the World Government.

The Poneglyphs and Raftel precede Roger, they've existed for 900+ years. The only thing Roger did was make a way to hasten the fulfilment of this prophecy, and that's by luring adventure seekers and pirates into going after what he called One Piece (wealth). As we see in Skypiea, Roger wrote "we came here and followed its guidance", so that whomever took this route would do the same. The treasure is merely a smoke-screen, the real intention is to get someone to learn of the Poneglyph's secrets and then take down the WG because of their corruption.

Spoiler

Luffy will also surpass Roger, this is a more turbulent age of Piracy than his age, this is why it's called the great age of Piracy.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Chinjao's words were weirdly stated. "Do you think you can surpass Roger" and "beat the admirals and yonkou" don't really mesh. Did he mean that Roger became PK without doing those things, and that if Luffy did that he would "surpass" Roger? If not, what does "surpass" mean if Luffy's only dream is to MATCH Roger by holding the same title?

 

[Spirit]

Chinjao's words were weirdly stated. "Do you think you can surpass Roger" and "beat the admirals and yonkou" don't really mesh. Did he mean that Roger became PK without doing those things, and that if Luffy did that he would "surpass" Roger? If not, what does "surpass" mean if Luffy's only dream is to MATCH Roger by holding the same title?

Well... yeah, but these things happen all the time in manga. It's been 9 years since Oda began One Piece, and it's logical enough to assume that he'd have changed his plans a bit. As for the question at hand, To become a True Pirate King, I think that one needs to know the secrets of this world, and have true influence over all pirates

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Chinjao's words were weirdly stated. "Do you think you can surpass Roger" and "beat the admirals and yonkou" don't really mesh. Did he mean that Roger became PK without doing those things, and that if Luffy did that he would "surpass" Roger? If not, what does "surpass" mean if Luffy's only dream is to MATCH Roger by holding the same title?

If you read what Coby said, he said do you think you can be Pirate King in THIS Age. There's a huge difference in the current age & former:

• There are far more Pirates than there were in Roger's era.

It's because there are far more Pirates that the Shichibukai system was put in place to deter the numbers from growing. In this "GOLDEN AGE" of Piracy, achieving what Roger did is to supersedes what Roger himself did.

That's why Chinjao (and Coby in essence) emphasised "4 Yonko and Admirals" because in Roger's age, there were less Emperors (and powerful Pirates) and less Admirals; less opposition in general. To become Pirate King in this age requires being able to exceed what Roger himself did.

It requires defeating both the opposition which has grown exponentially since Roger initiated this era & acquiring the secret of the world to be recognised as the Pirate King.

 

[Brandish μ]

Idk how to answer this question. Also I've probably forgotten some important pieces of information.

Being the PK in Roger's time seem liked he earned the respect of all, and after a certain time he got the name (correct me if I'm wrong).

Idk if there were Yonkou back then.

After he died, his impression would have been huge on the up and coming generation. Yonkou might have been a title that was seen as being a candidate for the PK. Other Pirates would have been inspired to find the One Piece.

So for Luffy, he probably faces a different world than Roger. Becoming PK might not be exactly like Roger.

For now I just assume if Luffy conquers the world and is acknowledged, then that is being PK.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

You're complicating something very simple, and taking the word of the general population(Example Coby) and every of their nuances to try to define it.

Just read the first page of the first chapter and you get what it is.

If you want to understand when Gol D. Roger got it, listen to Rayleigh conversation about when people started calling Gol D. Roger Pirate King.

Simply put: Pirate King is the pirate in the top of Power, Fame and Wealth. When people start widely and without much arguments chanting that you are it, than you start being it.
What you need to do in specific to reach that state depends and various people have various opinions about that, but is easily to agree that has to be something big.

Note that the One Piece is just the Wealth part of Pirate King. Note that the One Piece didn't exist before Gol D. Roger, One Piece IS Gol D. Roger Treasure.