Discussion What is a True Pirate King?

[Ketimatsu]

This example is out of place because Shanks has never been said to be a wall to Kaido. We do not know how Shanks made Kaido retreat but it wasn't by fighting because their whole crew was fine.
Roger was a wall to WB and Shiki. If there is a obstacle stopping you no matter what you do, then the obstacle is clearly stronger. Roger was the strongest. After his death, WB was titled the world's strongest.

Roger was actually not a wall to WB, since WB never wanted to be Pirate King. It was clearly said Shanks and Kaidou got involved in a fight. How? What happened? We do not know. And you are making an assumption here too...

You told @Enima to not 'assume' and now you do the same thing?

Would have, could have, should have. And if Akainu

Exactly the point...

Why did he not? The Akainu we know is someone who is heartless to Pirates and Marines alike. The only exceptions are Aokiji (because of his history) and Jewellery Bonney. So why did he let WB live?

And now you keep going? See what happens when start assuming?
I never thought Akainu defeated WB, neither WB Akainu.

What you had in your mind... was wrong, that's the point.

Since you fail to understand what I have in mind, you just keep going being wrong yourself.

Can see Chinjao states only "HE" implying 1 person can become Pirate King and defeat all these other potential Pirate Kings. So, your point is still moot and you clearly don't grasp it at all.

Yeah yeah and he also says countless souls with the quality of a king...

Not sure what it has to do? But you still try to comment...
You want Luffy to be the strongest, to be the pirate king. I show you how weak he is, defeating stronger guys than him with help. He needed Law to beat Doflamingo, needed Nami to defeat Cracker, needed 100 shadows to beat Moria, needed three rounds to beat Crocodile. Does not prevent him from evolving and growing.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 4, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 4, 2017 ---

Roger was actually not a wall to WB, since WB never wanted to be Pirate King. It was clearly said Shanks and Kaidou got involved in a fight. How? What happened? We do not know. And you are making an assumption here too...


Exactly the point...

And now you keep going? See what happens when start assuming?
I never thought Akainu defeated WB, neither WB Akainu.


Since you fail to understand what I have in mind, you just keep going being wrong yourself.



Yeah yeah and he also says countless souls with the quality of a king...

Not sure what it has to do? But you still try to comment...
You want Luffy to be the strongest, to be the pirate king. I show you how weak he is, defeating stronger guys than him with help. He needed Law to beat Doflamingo, needed Nami to defeat Cracker, needed 100 shadows to beat Moria, needed three rounds to beat Crocodile. Does not prevent him from evolving and growing. Not even mentioning all strong guys do not want to be Pirate King

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Yeah yeah and he also says countless souls with the quality of a king...

Yes, the Grand Line (New World) is full of people with the Potential to be Pirate King. What's your point?

You want Luffy to be the strongest, to be the pirate king.

Wrong, he will be, because he is going to be the Pirate King. Nothing to do with what I want buddy,

 

[FetherMan]

I think, Hawkeye or one of the Shichibukai said that Luffy's ability to build allies is his most dangerous ability outside his actual powers. true statement.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

He needed Law to beat Doflamingo,

Law didn't defeat Joker, lol. He's still moving even after Law's move. What were you reading?

needed Nami to defeat Cracker

To stop the Biscuit clones. He still defeated Cracker himself who was unaffected by Nami's rain because he's not biscuit, lol..

needed 100 shadows to beat Moria

Moriah also needed Shadows to beat Luffy, and he still failed despite having a 1000. What's your point buddy?

needed three rounds to beat Crocodile.

Well, that's a daft point. How does someone who has never encountered a Logia before.. defeat a Logia? No one can defeat an opponent they can't touch. Fact is when Luffy understood how Crocodile's ability worked, he was too strong for Crocodile.

In fact, no one can defeat an opponent whose ability they can't understand. You're making irrelevant petty points.

Does not prevent him from evolving and growing.

He will evolve of course, who said he wouldn't? Fact is, he's going to be the strongest because he's going to be Pirate King. What's hard to understand?

 

[Ketimatsu]

Law didn't defeat Joker, lol. He's still moving even after Law's move. What were you reading?

I read One Piece, you don't. Well probably you do, but you do not understand anything, clearly. Law did not defeat Doflamingo and I never said it. Law AND Luffy did.

No one can defeat an opponent they can't touch. Fact is when Luffy understood how Crocodile's ability worked, he was too strong for Crocodile.

Aware of the second fight? Fact: you are wrong.

To stop the Biscuit clones.

If this is not daft and moot... he needed Nami to stop Cracker's powers. Yeah of course totally irrelevant.

What's your point buddy?

All your last answers are dumb and out of place. As I told you many times already, you do not get the pointor you pretend to as I think. It is nice you try to have a debate, but if you do not understand, do not bother trying.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Law did not defeat Doflamingo and I never said it. Law AND Luffy did.

Joker was fine after what Law did. Luffy did most of the work, lol.

Aware of the second fight? Fact: you are wrong.

Yes, he wasn't aware of all of Crocodile's abilities. You obviously missed that. That was only his 2nd time against Crocodile. Hell, Luffy lost to Caesar as did Smoker+Tashigi+Robin+ Franky. Caesar defeated 5 people at once because they didn't understand how his ability worked and thought it was Conqueror's Haki. You can't defeat an opponent whose ability you do not understand when it's that powerful.

Such myopic logic implies because Luffy+Smoker+Tashigi+Robin+Franky lost to Caesae, Caesar is stronger. He's not, he just had an ability they didn't know about. Up until he knocked them out, Luffy was dominating that fight showing he was far superior and stronger than Caesar.

Do some research buddy, you clearly don't know what you're talking about making such irrelevant points.

If this is not daft and moot... he needed Nami to stop Cracker's powers. Yeah of course totally irrelevant.

Nope, that's not daft, it's called thinking, it's not a hard thing to do.

Cracker's powers didn't affect his physical strength, so it's not like Luffy needed help dealing with him. He only needed the biscuits out the way because he could produce them infinitely.

All your last answers are dumb and out of place. As I told you many times already, you do not get the pointor you pretend to as I think. It is nice you try to have a debate, but if you do not understand, do not bother trying.

You haven't made any relevant points ironically, lol.

Pirate King is in fact the strongest Pirate. Read the Manga properly, otherwise, you're bound to make erroneous and absurd claims in discussions as you've demonstrated repeatedly.

 

[Enima]

If Shanks is in real life, cannot do anything for you. But please give him my greetings next time you see him. If you ignore on purpose the point of my words, no need to answer.

Your point was:- Regardless of what a person is capable of, we should still consider them "a normal human". That's not true, you can't call someone who's physical prowess is well above other people "normal"

I ask for a reference: "dude it is obvious". Okay, free to have your opinion but do not come to give me it is fact.

It's a fact. Just add all the information we know about Doflamingo's powers and you get the answer.

I just show you, you interpret... Would have, could have, should have. And if Akainu really wanted to, he would have taken WB head, instead of attacking his chest.

This argument is never going to end. So let's stop.

 

[M3J]

Whitebeard and Shiki got stopped by Roger, they tried to become Pirate King but failed, that's why Shiki said Roger was a wall to them. So, it's a fact, he was the strongest.

When did Whitebeard really try to become a pirate king? We even learned that Whitebeard cared more about having a family than anything else even when he was young. If you agree that to become a pirate king, one must reach Raftel, then Whitebeard's conversation with Roger should prove that Whitebeard never had much of an aspiration to become a pirate king.

You wouldn't ask some failed businessman the best way to run a successful business would you?

Um, we do have a failed businessman running a country, so there's that. :x

He isn't enjoying his freedom now. 3 yonkos and the marines are after his head and he's constantly running away. That's not freedom. He's brave, he would fight Big Mom if he needs to, but he can't win right now, at least not in a fair battle (maybe if Big Mom is injured). He knows that, that's why he's running. Freedom is, when he can do whatever he pleases without having to run. He'll become the strongest, and then he'll become the pirate king.


Strength doesn't have to be physical strength. Nami and Usopp are strong due to their unique fighting styles.

Those were one time fights. Luffy lost against crocodile twice before finally winning. If he was the pirate king, he would've lost his title after the first fight.

Yeah cuz right now not only is he not at the level to even think about taking on a Yonkou or an admiral, but he's also pressed for time. And again, he doesn't have to become the strongest, that's just an assumption made when the manga clearly implies that luck can make all the difference. Garp said that despite Roger's recklessness, his luck was what helped him survive and become a pirate king. So far, Luffy has won a lot of his fights or survived thanks to luck, and it'll likely continue even to the end. Which is why, he doesn't have to be the strongest, not when he's beaten opponents stronger than him through luck, willpower, help from others, ingenuity, or any of the combination.
Exactly. Luck can play a part in how strong a character is, and since Luffy has fate on his side, he'll be lucky and win a lot of his fights.

He probably would have, and he would get his title back after winning the second or third fight... if he even lost his first fight. By the time he reaches Raftel, Luffy should be on a level where he could go toe-to-toe with WHitebeard or a fleet admiral, even if he'd lose a heads-on fight. It'd mean that what would or could make a difference is his luck and other factors in beating an opponent superior to him, if there even is any.

I think you cannot read, clearly, that is your problem. Talking without a clue and making me say what I never said.

Exactly why I rarely ever read 95% of his arguments against me. Learned it's a waste of time.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Nothing related to One Piece, probably for the best

I had to do you this favor, could not embarass you more with something you do not get.

Your point was:- Regardless of what a person is capable of, we should still consider them "a normal human". That's not true, you can't call someone who's physical prowess is well above other people "normal"

That was not my point. Again in a world with guys turning magma or ice, who modify their bodies and are made of iron and not just flesh, zoro's body is what I call "normal", yes.

It's a fact. Just add all the information we know about Doflamingo's powers and you get the answer.

You do not have to make a fool of yourself too, you know, Hannibal was enough. I asked you for the reference. First answer: "Dude, it is obvious". Second answer: "It is fact". Let me help you: "Chapter XX, page YY". This is a reference.

This argument is never going to end. So let's stop.

Indeed, if you still think these are arguments, better to stop. I am just going to repeat and make it clearly so you get a chance to understand: you consider WB defeated Akainu, I was just showing you one can consider Akainu defeated WB before, not that he actually did. I do not believe any of this is true personally. You are entitled to your opinion, does not make it fact, others can do the same.
You can think WB defeated Akainu because of this and that, but as someone pointed, Akainu came back doing tremendous damages and almost killed Luffy. So I think there are good reasons enough so people think Akainu was not defeated. But if you tell me "Dude, WB defeated Akaninu, it is obvious." Well...

When did Whitebeard really try to become a pirate king? We even learned that Whitebeard cared more about having a family than anything else even when he was young. If you agree that to become a pirate king, one must reach Raftel, then Whitebeard's conversation with Roger should prove that Whitebeard never had much of an aspiration to become a pirate king.

Totally agree. Akainu said at some point WB could never become pirate king because of Roger, but actually WB never cared so much about it.

Exactly why I rarely ever read 95% of his arguments against me. Learned it's a waste of time.

Yeah I realized that, thanks. Checked quickly his other posts where he does the same.

 

[kingsley29101990]

I think you cannot read, clearly, that is your problem. Talking without a clue and making me say what I never said.


Is your brain the problem? I do not know, seriously. And Shanks defeated Kaidou too? Anyway you talk and talk missing my point. You can reread what I wrote, properly this time maybe.



Who spoke about about fleet etc. if you do not understand what I say, ask rather than making assumptions (Again).... I had in mind something like Luffy beating Doflamingo in a 2 vs 1. And again, not all fights end with the strongest winning. Ah wait, I guess in your mind, if you win, it is because you are stronger.


Probably more than you do.


If Shanks is in real life, cannot do anything for you. But please give him my greetings next time you see him. If you ignore on purpose the point of my words, no need to answer.



I ask for a reference: "dude it is obvious". Okay, free to have your opinion but do not come to give me it is fact.



I just show you, you interpret... Would have, could have, should have. And if Akainu really wanted to, he would have taken WB head, instead of attacking his chest.

It is a fact that for luffy, becoming pirate king means becoming free, and in the new world, there's absolutely no way you can be free if you can't take on any of those monsters should they come after you. An example was when Don creg's fleet was defeated the very first day he entered the grandline by hawkeyes. Currently in whole cake island, he's running from bigmom while sanji is going to bake a cake so that they can run away from bigmom. Is that being free?, luffy has been lucky so far in the anime, heck he can still be lucky enough to find onepiece as he is, BUT, if he cannot sail freely after that, then to him - he's not yet the KING, as clearly, he'll keep running.

You did say -
" Does he have to be the strongest. Not necessarily.
Does he have to be strong? Yes, without a doubt."

Well, I'm also saying he has to be strong, but strong enough to take on those monsters that will make him keep running, otherwise, he won't be free.

On a side note, I think it's immature to result to defamation during an argument, arguments be it deductive or inductive are all about points on the topic and not on the person.

 

[Enima]

Yeah cuz right now not only is he not at the level to even think about taking on a Yonkou or an admiral, but he's also pressed for time. And again, he doesn't have to become the strongest, that's just an assumption made when the manga clearly implies that luck can make all the difference. Garp said that despite Roger's recklessness, his luck was what helped him survive and become a pirate king. So far, Luffy has won a lot of his fights or survived thanks to luck, and it'll likely continue even to the end. Which is why, he doesn't have to be the strongest, not when he's beaten opponents stronger than him through luck, willpower, help from others, ingenuity, or any of the combination.
Exactly. Luck can play a part in how strong a character is, and since Luffy has fate on his side, he'll be lucky and win a lot of his fights.

During the marine ford war, luck didn't save him. Law+Shanks+white beard pirates did. The whole point of the time skip was to show that Luck can't get you everything, Luffy learnt his lesson. He's not going to make the same mistake again and leave everything to luck.

He said that Roger becoming the pirate king was surprising. Roger wasn't always strong, after he became the pirate king he was undefeatable (shiki said it himself, he refused to believe Roger was defeated) but he was weak before he became the pirate king, just like Luffy is now. If Luffy becomes the pirate king (and the strongest man alive) people will say the same thing about him

He probably would have, and he would get his title back after winning the second or third fight... if he even lost his first fight. By the time he reaches Raftel, Luffy should be on a level where he could go toe-to-toe with WHitebeard or a fleet admiral, even if he'd lose a heads-on fight. It'd mean that what would or could make a difference is his luck and other factors in beating an opponent superior to him, if there even is any.

The difference is, crocodile left him alive because he thought Luffy wasn't a threat. Replace crocodile with the marines and Luffy would've died. The thing is, you're thinking that Luffy survived every fight due to Luck. Luck helped him but he didn't survive solely due to luck.

That was not my point. Again in a world with guys turning magma or ice, who modify their bodies and are made of iron and not just flesh, zoro's body is what I call "normal", yes.

But he's not normal, that's what I was trying to Imply. Would you call Usain bolt or michael phelps normal? It's the same with Zoro, he's not normal.

Spoiler: Normal person

Spoiler: Not a normal person

That was not my point. Again in a world with guys turning magma or ice, who modify their bodies and are made of iron and not just flesh, zoro's body is what I call "normal", yes.

Ok. A normal person's muscles are not strong enough to cut a train into half. A normal person would struggle to cut a tree. This guy's body is superhuman. Is superman normal too since he's just made of flesh?

You do not have to make a fool of yourself too, you know, Hannibal was enough. I asked you for the reference. First answer: "Dude, it is obvious". Second answer: "It is fact". Let me help you: "Chapter XX, page YY". This is a reference.

Bruh, I'm not making a fool out of my self. The writer doesn't need to explain stuff that people can figure out by themselves

• Did he ever mention whether the on piece world has gravity or not?
• Did he ever mention If the humans in the one piece grow hair or they just wear wigs

Some times the writer doesn't explain stuff because it's obvious. If someone in OP gets injured and bleeds, we don't say "Oh, it could be a red liquid that was teleported on to the body of the person from another dimension the moment he got cut, yeah that's possible because Oda never explained it" we don't do that, we don't say stuff like that because it's obvious.

On a side note, I think it's immature to result to defamation during an argument, arguments be it deductive or inductive are all about points on the topic and not on the person.

Spoiler

 

[Ketimatsu]

crocodile left him alive because he thought Luffy wasn't a threat

And you are dead wrong. Crocodile thought he killed him, not because he was not a threat. And I can show you are wrong, with a reference, you know the thing you cannot do.
Chapter 204 page 7

Spoiler

The writer doesn't need to explain stuff that people can figure out by themselves

The funny thing is when Oda explicitly mentions something, you ignore it.

Again you are just blablaing. I am simply asking for a reference. And you keep trying to make your point, going for your funny (shall I say stupid? probably not you may take this in the wrong way) comparisons, again ignoring what I am saying.

Usain bolt or michael phelps normal?

Ahem... yes they are normal. No wonder you do not get the point.

Spoiler

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I had to do you this favor, could not embarass you more with something you do not get.

Lol, and you still make no valid points. Must be oblivious to how shounens work. Luffy will be Pirate King, therefore, he'd be the strongest. It's delusional to say otherwise when the opponent is the likes of Kaido, Big Mom, Blackbeard and Shanks. If you're not at least as strong as these guys, you expect Luffy to become Pirate King? Delusional, lol. There's only so far luck will take one.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2017 ---

When did Whitebeard really try to become a pirate king? We even learned that Whitebeard cared more about having a family than anything else even when he was young. If you agree that to become a pirate king, one must reach Raftel, then Whitebeard's conversation with Roger should prove that Whitebeard never had much of an aspiration to become a pirate king.

He did try to become Pirate King until Roger became it. Why else do you think Roger offered him the location of Raftel if he didn't want it initially? Why do you think Roger and Whitebeard went to Wano and had Oden, someone who can read the Poneglyphs... on their ships? Whitebeard had aspiration, he just lost it after and chose to make someone else Pirate King. No one goes to the Grand line without such ambitions. Roger only told important information to his rivals, Garp and Whitebeard; Garp was the existence of his child and Whitebeard, the existence of One Piece.

 

[Tonix]

Roger only told important information to his rivals, Garp and Whitebeard; Garp was the existence of his child and Whitebeard, the existence of One Piece.

Isn't it confirmed on the very first page of the manga (and the start of every anime episode) that Roger told the entire world about the existence of One Piece, and that Roger telling everyone about One Piece is what inspired the Pirate Age?

Spoiler

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Isn't it confirmed on the very first page of the manga (and the start of every anime episode) that Roger told the entire world about the existence of One Piece, and that Roger telling everyone about One Piece is what inspired the Pirate Age?

Spoiler

Well, people didn't even know if it really existed. All they know is he left a treasure in the Grand Line.

There's a reason many people even questioned whether it existed and said it was a myth.

And if you read what I said, I said "DETAILS or IMPORTANT INFORMATION" of One Piece were only known to the few, and Whitebeard was one of the people that learnt about it from Roger. All he did at the beginning of the story was mention it, not the details. People do not know what the One Piece is, only the few. The Pirate King's crew knows and the Gorosei know.

You even see that Usopp asked Rayleigh what the One Piece was and what did Luffy say?

Spoiler

1. He doesn't want to know where it is because no one knows except those who studied the Poneglyphs.
2. He doesn't even want to know if it's real or not. Everyone setting out to sea is venturing out on blind optimism and faith it exists.

It is exactly as Bellamy said, people don't believe it exists and more so after 20+ years of no hint regarding its existence. This is why people laughed at Kid and Law just like people laughed at Luffy at at Jaya.

This is why when Whitebeard died exclaimed One Piece exists, Sengoku screamed in anger because he'd reignited the idea that One Piece really does exist meaning it will rekindle or propagate the Age of Piracy that Roger initiated at his death. Can even see after Whitebeard died, people stated that they were going to become Pirates because Whitebeard confirmed it exists, therefore, they're going to start their own adventures and seek this out.

Spoiler

People just think it's treasure, gold, wealth. It's much more than that. All Roger did as I said earlier was say it exists, he never stated what it was. Only Whitebeard (who learnt what it was from Roger), Roger's crew and the Gorosei absolutely know what it is. Everyone else is left in the dark and clueless.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Well, people didn't even know if it really existed.

Seriously you said Roger told only about the OP to WB. Tonix, spot on, just reminded you he actually said it to everybody. No need to drag it over pages and pages to try to justify yourself, to tell us "oh yeah but people did not believe Roger when he said it". Does not change he said it.

Could also be that WB bullshited everybody like Roger did ahaha

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Seriously you said Roger told only about the OP to WB. Tonix, spot on, just reminded you he actually said it to everybody.

Wrong.

If you're capable of reading properly, I said he only told "Important Information" about One Piece to Whitebeard, lol.

Roger only told important information to his rivals, Garp and Whitebeard

Nice reading comprehension buddy.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2017 ---

Could also be that WB bullshited everybody like Roger did ahaha

That's stupid when you have to claim that the One Piece doesn't exist when the story is based on it existing, lol. Good try.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Wrong.

If you're capable of reading properly, I said he only told "Important Information" about One Piece to Whitebeard, lol.

You are just getting funnier and funnier. I mean, I never thought you could reach the point you would misunderstand yourself. Priceless.

Roger only told important information to his rivals, Garp and Whitebeard; Garp was the existence of his child and Whitebeard, the existence of One Piece.

Good try cutting your quote As it is, the important information is the existence of the One Piece. You can say you did not mean that but this is what your sentence means.

That's stupid when you have to claim that the One Piece doesn't exist when the story is based on it existing, lol. Good try.

Familiar with sarcasm and irony?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You are just getting funnier and funnier. I mean, I never thought you could reach the point you would misunderstand yourself. Priceless.



Good try cutting your quote As it is, the important information is the existence of the One Piece. You can say you did not mean that but this is what your sentence means.



Familiar with sarcasm and irony?

Nope, you just have poor understanding of English if what I said wasn't clear enough assuming you're not lying, but truly misunderstanding, lol.

If you were exercising much intelligence or sound rational, then Whitebeard saying One Piece exist should not come as a shock, or surprise or garner as much as a reaction other than mockery. Everyone else isn't sure it exists, Whitebeard knows it exists. There's a reason Sengoku calls Whitebeard a fiend.

Maybe reading in between the lines isn't your forte. While he may have been vague to the world about One Piece existing and they not even believing, Whitebeard knows it exists and knows the implications. That's the distinction you're failing to make.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Nope, you just have poor understanding of English if what I said wasn't clear enough

*
That's all you have to say? I understood perfectly, thanks for checking.

If you were exercising much intelligence or sound rational, then Whitebeard saying One Piece exist should not come as a shock, or surprise or garner as much as a reaction other than mockery. Everyone else isn't sure it exists, Whitebeard knows it exists. There's a reason Sengoku calls Whitebeard a fiend.

You want a secret? Okay it is the third time I say it but well.... this comment was a joke. Though, I would like to know from where you know from fact he knows for sure the One Piece exists or what it is. A page or SBSS maybe?

Maybe reading in between the lines isn't your forte. While he may have been vague to the world about One Piece existing and they not even believing, Whitebeard knows it exists and knows the implications. That's the distinction you're failing to make.

Aaaah I got it, since you cannot read the lines you try to read in between! That is why you do not understand anything we tell you.
You know what for a distinction, actually in this case does not make any difference: that he knows or not, the consequences of him saying it are the same.