Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[shoyoboyo]

Yo you’re talking crazy as hell. For me seasonal is whack. Sharkbait is right that long running is the best cause it can work in the favor of characterization, fleshing out canon scenes to improve the story. It’s just how they go about it. I mean OP and DBS always rank top 10 in ratings right? It’s just companies are impatient nowadays and push the product out fast as hell, I dislike this new trend.

You can't compare anime like OP and DB that have been here for years. It has an established fan base.

Long running and seasonals both have their advantages and disadvantages. Long running gives constant exposure with no breaks, but sacrifices quality for quantity. Bigger risk of everyone's favorite fillers as well. Seasonals give relatively short bursts of exposure, but sacrifices quantity for quality. There's the risk that the audience of the first season just moves on by the time the second season comes around. Look at Attack on Titan and Osomatsu-san.

Every time there is a discussion on 5ch its almost always trolls who bring it in and sarcastically say its the face of jump or as an example of bad pacing or if its a serious conversation, after a few posts, the conversation turns to other series like Heroaca, Neverland, Kimetsu and Stone.

Pretty much the same thing in the TOC threads on /a/. Lots of false flagging.
__
Also it's probably best to just not reply to Ice King. It's obvious what's going on.

 

[Franz]

Also it's probably best to just not reply to Ice King. It's obvious what's going on.

????

Why ?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2017 ---

Long running and seasonals both have their advantages and disadvantages. Long running gives constant exposure with no breaks, but sacrifices quality for quantity. Bigger risk of everyone's favorite fillers as well. Seasonals give relatively short bursts of exposure, but sacrifices quantity for quality. There's the risk that the audience of the first season just moves on by the time the second season comes around. Look at Attack on Titan and Osomatsu-san..

I agree.

 

[SharkBait]

Just to throw this in for the Captain Tsubasa reboot. Back in the day, Captain Tsubasa's anime was extremely popular in the middle east (especially in the UAE) although it was renamed to Captain Majid. So many kids from there got into football because of Captain Tsubasa.
So, I'm hoping the reboot gets popular over there again.

I await the day I see more anime properties with merch when the american news is doing their stories on Saudia Arabia, already saw doraemon and ygo merchandise on news reports from last reports, and arent they getting comiccons, maybe tsubasa cosplayers next year.,

 

[Franz]

I really hope Pierrot doesn't get any other Jump series any time soon, they're worse than Toei these days since Toei does at least focus on adapting the manga.

Black Clover anime has adapted the first volume...

 

[iceemperor]

Yo you’re talking crazy as hell. For me seasonal is whack. Sharkbait is right that long running is the best cause it can work in the favor of characterization, fleshing out canon scenes to improve the story. It’s just how they go about it. I mean OP and DBS always rank top 10 in ratings right? It’s just companies are impatient nowadays and push the product out fast as hell, I dislike this new trend.

This new trend is the result of companies no longer being able to sponsor series to go on forever. OP and DBS are sponsored by Toei, Fuji TV, Bandai and a few more companies. They have made, and will continue to make, billions for these companies. The same for series like Conan which is sponsored by Yomiuri, TMS, and a few other companies. Conan also has made, and will make, billions. Can you say a new series like BC, Heroaca and the like will do the same with certainty, especially in this era? Heroaca might have proved it is profitable but even then its production costs are shared between 7 companies on the production committee. Bandai has just now decided to release a full console game. Before that they did that mediocre 3DS game and the mobile game earlier this year.

Even then they're taking a pretty big risk with BC and giving it 51 episodes in the daytime because they believe it will be worth the investment. You cannot expect this with all anime though and thus you get the current seasonal trend. I personally can't say they're impatient though the quick adaptations of WT and Heroaca do make it seem that way. Even though they rushed to get Heroaca out in anime form they didn't necessarily follow up on that with the other media. They put very little effort into the 3DS game, which honestly should not have even been made. The arcade game and card game also had few attractions. They put more effort into those during the second season's run.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Speaking of which how is the arcade game doing iceemperor? It sucks how Bandai have essentially been sitting on their hands with releasing some ideal merch for the series despite of how well its been doing. I'm hoping for some figure announcements at Jump Fest or Wonder fest in January because I was shocked that there was next to nothing at Summer Wonder fest this year.

I can almost guarantee that Megahous is going to have Black Clover figures at Jump Festa.

 

[Tamil]

I know it's early to predict but you think Black Clover will get the Toriko treatment at the end of it's 51 episode run? I.E No more promotions/merch/anime

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2017 ---

It's something I fear and there are high chances it will happen. As I've said before, it really all comes down to luck of all things when it comes to adaptations. There is a 5-10% chance that a Kimetsu adaptation could be good/decent from Toei or Pierrot, but only if the anime is at most only 2 cours long for the first season.

Toei would be better than Pierrot I guess but honestly I can't remember the last WSJ adaptation I've enjoyed from Toei. Toriko & World Trigger were god awful compared to their manga so I guess that 5-10% success rate is very accurate lol.

 

[jagman1x3]

Just a reminder that this is not the Black Clover thread. Please stay on topic.

 

[ChocoBar9]

I know it's early to predict but you think Black Clover will get the Toriko treatment at the end of it's 51 episode run? I.E No more promotions/merch/anime

Just to ease this conversation back to Jump related I do not think they're going to change pushing Black Clover once the anime ends given the current climate of the magazine being different from when Toriko was running. Even if Black Clover doesn't become the next Naruto like they want it sells enough for Jump to still want to advertise so I can see them ordering an additional order of episodes regardless what I do see happening is it ending up like how Souma is with sponsors bailing out and the anime being nothing more but cheap advertisement. Pretty much the opposite of how they're going to treat Neverland when it gets an anime since now that its been recognized as a prestige series they'll at least want to hire a high quality studio behind it rather than slumping it with their factory workers Pierrot and Toei. Dr. Stone is definitely something that they would give to Toei to animate.

 

[Mawara]

Guess this is a good opportunity to ask this question, plays off the question of Golem Hearts surviving: when getting into something new do you guys care for the story or characters more? Me it's characters, I need something to stick with me. The story can be as good as all outdoors but if the characters are trash it's hard to be invested in it. Good characters can make an average plot better. Not sure if I can say the same the other way around

Always reading guides how to write books or characters, and the one I'm currently reading explains how people prefer plot over characters, because they orientate around it and is the one things which truly defines the identity of a book in the long run.

But my personal experiences tell me otherwise:
People are quite forgiving to the plot, as long they enjoy the characters. That's why Fairy Tail was so popular.
I mean, of course it has its huge crowd of critics, sure, but nonetheless it has a lot of fans, who followed it for its characters.
And if you enjoy the characters in one's plot, you're more willing to endure potential plot holes or other mistakes.
But having a good plot with bad characters seems to be much more frustrating for people. Even then they've enjoyed it at the end, they're less likely to revisit the story, bc the already know the plot and the characters are not enough entertaining/interesting to see them again.

But of course this also depends on the genre itself. Sometimes concentrating on the story is part of the course in a mystery or thriller.
And of course it depends heavily on the readers/watchers preferences.

Personally I agree with the wise words of the in/famous videogame critic Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw:
"A good story is nothing but the acts of characters.
And plot happens because characters doing shit!"

 

[cody]

You know, since Toei finished moving to their new building, after 3 years, wouldn't it be the perfect time for them to adapt Hinomaru Zumo xD? It has a lot of material, they like to make things with a lot of episodes, they are at full capacity now and the Japanese Sumo Society surely wants to make sumo look cool. Not ideal, but better than nothing at this point, I guess?

The Production I.G dream is dead at this point for HZ in my eyes, which is a shame, HZ deserved the Haikyu and Kuroko treatment for at least a season.

Dr. Stone does seem like something that Toei would want to get their hands on, but hopefully the manga dodges that bullet.

One thing's for sure, Toei are looking for their next victim and Pierrot's hunger might not be satisfied yet, so they can also create another casualty.

 

[Caiops]

Any chance we have a Neverland anime announcement just like Black Clover got one in Jump Festa last year?

 

[cody]

Any chance we have a Neverland anime announcement just like Black Clover got one in Jump Festa last year?

I think they'll keep that for next year's Festa or for the midway point of 2018.

 

[Nakura]

Any chance we have a Neverland anime announcement just like Black Clover got one in Jump Festa last year?

We knew beforehand that Black Clover was getting an important announcement at Jump Festa.

 

[Avok]

Kimetsu anime when?
And there's no way they'll wait until the next Festa to announce the Neverland anime.

 

[Caiops]

We knew beforehand that Black Clover was getting an important announcement at Jump Festa.

Forgot about that..

so, no chance.

 

[Tanzo]

Earliest time for Kimetsu to announce the anime is on its 2nd anniversary. If not then, then sometime mid-2018.
Neverland could do that too in June, but it could be announced earlier due to its popularity.

 

[cody]

Kimetsu anime when?
And there's no way they'll wait until the next Festa to announce the Neverland anime.

Kimetsu: They could wait for the next Festa or they'll announce it sometime in the middle of 2018. Or worst/best?? case scenario is if they announce it in 2019 only, which does seem like a bit too much.

Neverland: I think they might wait for Festa. If not, they'll announce it in the middle of 2018 probably.

Other factors that apply to both: It depends how long they want the adaptations to be, for Neverland for example it's a toss-up between a 13 episode adaption that adapts the first big part of the manga or something longer that covers more material, for Kimetsu things can be more flexible. It depends if they want a particular studio for each, it depends how busy those studios might be, they could end up having to wait for the studios to be free enough for the projects. Those things can cause pretty long time variations.

 

[Doughboy]

This new trend is the result of companies no longer being able to sponsor series to go on forever. OP and DBS are sponsored by Toei, Fuji TV, Bandai and a few more companies. They have made, and will continue to make, billions for these companies. The same for series like Conan which is sponsored by Yomiuri, TMS, and a few other companies. Conan also has made, and will make, billions. Can you say a new series like BC, Heroaca and the like will do the same with certainty, especially in this era? Heroaca might have proved it is profitable but even then its production costs are shared between 7 companies on the production committee. Bandai has just now decided to release a full console game. Before that they did that mediocre 3DS game and the mobile game earlier this year.

Even then they're taking a pretty big risk with BC and giving it 51 episodes in the daytime because they believe it will be worth the investment. You cannot expect this with all anime though and thus you get the current seasonal trend. I personally can't say they're impatient though the quick adaptations of WT and Heroaca do make it seem that way. Even though they rushed to get Heroaca out in anime form they didn't necessarily follow up on that with the other media. They put very little effort into the 3DS game, which honestly should not have even been made. The arcade game and card game also had few attractions. They put more effort into those during the second season's run.

Bro reading of all of this I legit thought of 2 things: would the Big 3 and DBZ have the same lasting impact on us if we didn’t grow up with the series and watch how they all unfolded being they were all long runners that we could fully embrace the characters? And as immersed as I'm in MHA now I think if the anime started this year and became a long runner the sky’s the limit.

Always reading guides how to write books or characters, and the one I'm currently reading explains how people prefer plot over characters, because they orientate around it and is the one things which truly defines the identity of a book in the long run.

But my personal experiences tell me otherwise:
People are quite forgiving to the plot, as long they enjoy the characters. That's why Fairy Tail was so popular.
I mean, of course it has its huge crowd of critics, sure, but nonetheless it has a lot of fans, who followed it for its characters.
And if you enjoy the characters in one's plot, you're more willing to endure potential plot holes or other mistakes.
But having a good plot with bad characters seems to be much more frustrating for people. Even then they've enjoyed it at the end, they're less likely to revisit the story, bc the already know the plot and the characters are not enough entertaining/interesting to see them again.

But of course this also depends on the genre itself. Sometimes concentrating on the story is part of the course in a mystery or thriller.
And of course it depends heavily on the readers/watchers preferences.

Personally I agree with the wise words of the in/famous videogame critic Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw:
"A good story is nothing but the acts of characters.
And plot happens because characters doing shit!"

All this, I can’t agree with that quote anymore. What charmed me about Naruto was seeing how dude at such a young age went through depression and solidtary bigotry that it was impossible not root for him and watch the story unfold in his eyes. What drew me about FT was the same as early OP, just how carefree and charismatic was given off in Natsu and how lively the adventure was that I just had to keep watching to see where it would take him. I think when I see a summary of a show is what can draw me to check it out but the characters is what keeps me to stay. The final arcs seemingly fucked up those series for a lot of casuals (if they weren’t annoyed already) but I was so into them that I didn’t mind or deeply cared.

After 11 episodes I honestly believe that BC’s weakest aspect isn’t how generic the plot was in the beginning, or the current lack of excitement that will probably come in the next arc, it's the cast of characters. Compared to their contemporaries I’ve seen over the years they just don’t give you the immediate charm to watch or care for their developments.

 

[Sir Isley]

Yeah, ignore Nisekoi, Haikyu, Kuroko, Saiki and BNHA conveniently, seasonal is the way to go, no padding out and no dumb filler, these are all recent WSJ series.

MHA has exactly one filler episode.