American Politics

[M3J]

And in the meanwhile, we can't escape his stupidity or his cult members' racism.

 

[Newkerzy]

So, be honest with me y'all. Is this impeachment even going to succeed? I mean, I could see this working if the Senate composition was tighter, but considering how he's effectively brainwashed and scared the GOP to fall in line, I don't see this happening. Like, what is even the point for Dems to go through this? If this is a way to undermine him in 2020 elections, I don't really see any upsides to this situation.

 

[kkck]

So, be honest with me y'all. Is this impeachment even going to succeed? I mean, I could see this working if the Senate composition was tighter, but considering how he's effectively brainwashed and scared the GOP to fall in line, I don't see this happening. Like, what is even the point for Dems to go through this? If this is a way to undermine him in 2020 elections, I don't really see any upsides to this situation.

As for the impeachment going through.... personally I don't think democrats will succeed. Either through their own incompetence or through the senate simply taking trump's side. McConnell has even said he is working with the white house...

As for the point of this... At this point it's just basic decency. During the house investigations you had a dozen trump staffers testifying under that to the best of their knowledge trump withheld aid to ukraine because he wanted to get the biden investigation out of them. Add to that trump ordering people not to comply with subpoenas and those people not complying with those in spite of the fact that in the past people have done jail time for not complying with subpoenas before.

 

[Newkerzy]

As for the impeachment going through.... personally I don't think democrats will succeed. Either through their own incompetence or through the senate simply taking trump's side. McConnell has even said he is working with the white house...

As for the point of this... At this point it's just basic decency. During the house investigations you had a dozen trump staffers testifying under that to the best of their knowledge trump withheld aid to ukraine because he wanted to get the biden investigation out of them. Add to that trump ordering people not to comply with subpoenas and those people not complying with those in spite of the fact that in the past people have done jail time for not complying with subpoenas before.

Except at this point the GOP has already thrown out any sort of decency and sold their souls. The impeachment process doesn't even seem to affect theirs and Trumpty's re-election chances either, and that's without getting Russia involved. It'd basically take someone to get Trumpty to gloat about how dumb his supporters are on the record to get him kicked out.

 

[kkck]

Except at this point the GOP has already thrown out any sort of decency and sold their souls. The impeachment process doesn't even seem to affect theirs and Trumpty's re-election chances either, and that's without getting Russia involved. It'd basically take someone to get Trumpty to gloat about how dumb his supporters are on the record to get him kicked out.

But... what's the alternative? To not do anything? I would argue the healthier thing to do here is to not think about this in terms of whether trump actually gets impeached and then kicked out or in terms of elections. Both of them are important but in a different context from that of a trial where the issue should be a legal process and the substance that is brought up. The validity of a trial of any type doesn't depend on there being exclusively guilty verdicts. Add to that this being a political trial...

Trump has already gloated about how stupid his supporters are. Like when he said he could shot someone on fifth avenue and he wouldn't lose a vote... Or when he said his supporters cared about locking hillary up during the election but not after...

 

[M3J]

So, be honest with me y'all. Is this impeachment even going to succeed? I mean, I could see this working if the Senate composition was tighter, but considering how he's effectively brainwashed and scared the GOP to fall in line, I don't see this happening. Like, what is even the point for Dems to go through this? If this is a way to undermine him in 2020 elections, I don't really see any upsides to this situation.

It'll fail, and Trump will get away with his lying, bullshit ways because the republicans don't give a shit about the country, they just want to have power. If anything, this could get Trump more votes from those who didn't even support him initially. It did cause a Democrat to switch sides.

 

[Newkerzy]

But... what's the alternative? To not do anything? I would argue the healthier thing to do here is to not think about this in terms of whether trump actually gets impeached and then kicked out or in terms of elections. Both of them are important but in a different context from that of a trial where the issue should be a legal process and the substance that is brought up. The validity of a trial of any type doesn't depend on there being exclusively guilty verdicts. Add to that this being a political trial...

Trump has already gloated about how stupid his supporters are. Like when he said he could shot someone on fifth avenue and he wouldn't lose a vote... Or when he said his supporters cared about locking hillary up during the election but not after...

If I get what you're saying, then all this amounts to is trying to get a moral victory out of this? Moral victories rarely mean anything in politics nowadays.

My beef with the whole thing is, the Dems should know better than anyone else after the Clinton scandal the timing just wasn't going to work. The best strategy they could've executed was to keep playing dumb until next year, and once the impeachment process goes underway midway through next year, that could end up in huge voter turnouts for both the Senate and Representatives going the Democrats' way.

It wouldn't matter if Trumpty won, because as soon as he is sworn into office, the legislative branch can impeach him.

 

[kkck]

If I get what you're saying, then all this amounts to is trying to get a moral victory out of this? Moral victories rarely mean anything in politics nowadays.

My beef with the whole thing is, the Dems should know better than anyone else after the Clinton scandal the timing just wasn't going to work. The best strategy they could've executed was to keep playing dumb until next year, and once the impeachment process goes underway midway through next year, that could end up in huge voter turnouts for both the Senate and Representatives going the Democrats' way.

It wouldn't matter if Trumpty won, because as soon as he is sworn into office, the legislative branch can impeach him.

No, not a moral victory. They should do it simply because its the correct and decent thing to do. What's the alternative? To let a crime slide simply because they are afraid of what the opposing party will think? That's absurd, cowardly and plainly wrong. If democrats genuinely believe that trump genuinely tried to extort ukraine then they simply can't wait until the timing is convenient, they have to proceed in the moment... Can you imagine the whistleblower complaint coming out and democrats not acting on it? That's absurd.

 

[Sanity Check]

Let it be known that I've been a massive supporter of Donald John Trump since 2016 when I first saw his proposed taxation reform plan to cut income taxes.

 

[M3J]

Our dumbass president decided to attack Iraq or Iran, which led to Soleimani's death and a possible war with Middle East, which in turn will kill so many innocent Middle Eastern lives. We really have no right to whine about refugees when we literally create them with our shitheaded ways, jfc

 

[Sanity Check]

Purported experts in the media said it would take more than 10 years for the united states to defeat ISIS.

It took Trump 2-3 years to wreck ISIS and bring it to its knees. More than 7 years ahead of the schedule laid out by media commentary.

Iran has to be shitting bricks right now. Democrats can't save them. They can't give them free money to fund global terrorism like they did under Obama.

If Trump is serious about war, Iran's days are numbered. Trump won't send american soldiers into battle with their hands tied behind their backs like the previous US Presidents have.

 

[kkck]

Purported experts in the media said it would take more than 10 years for the united states to defeat ISIS.

It took Trump 2-3 years to wreck ISIS and bring it to its knees. More than 7 years ahead of the schedule laid out by media commentary.

Iran has to be shitting bricks right now. Democrats can't save them. They can't give them free money to fund global terrorism like they did under Obama.

If Trump is serious about war, Iran's days are numbered. Trump won't send american soldiers into battle with their hands tied behind their backs like the previous US Presidents have.

ISIS was already declining in strength by the time trump became president and that had been happening since about 2014... It's just false that trump brought isis to its knees. Add to that, isis has never been defeated and over the past few year they have been becoming stronger.

And.... are you insane? iran shitting bricks? Iran is 4 times larger than iraq, has over twice its population, far more complicated terrain AND they also happen to have a real military (unlike iraq). Iraq was an unmitigated disaster and a stain on US history... But going to war with iran would dwarf that in every regard. As for trump not sending soldiers there.... I assume you mean the US can just do drone strikes and whatnot. But... to do that the US would still need allies over there to do the fighting. Now, I certainly don't know too much about the situation there but it doesn't seem likely that trump will find someone to do that for him after what he did to the kurds. I mean, you'd have to be pretty damn stupid to trust the US at all after that. So IF there is a war the US will almost certainly have to send soldiers over there. With no expectation of help from most allied countries at that since this would end up being a consequence of trump backing out of the iran deal. Which almost every non US country on earth regards as catastrophically stupid.

 

[Sanity Check]

ISIS was already declining in strength by the time trump became president and that had been happening since about 2014... It's just false that trump brought isis to its knees. Add to that, isis has never been defeated and over the past few year they have been becoming stronger.

And.... are you insane? iran shitting bricks? Iran is 4 times larger than iraq, has over twice its population, far more complicated terrain AND they also happen to have a real military (unlike iraq). Iraq was an unmitigated disaster and a stain on US history... But going to war with iran would dwarf that in every regard. As for trump not sending soldiers there.... I assume you mean the US can just do drone strikes and whatnot. But... to do that the US would still need allies over there to do the fighting. Now, I certainly don't know too much about the situation there but it doesn't seem likely that trump will find someone to do that for him after what he did to the kurds. I mean, you'd have to be pretty damn stupid to trust the US at all after that. So IF there is a war the US will almost certainly have to send soldiers over there. With no expectation of help from most allied countries at that since this would end up being a consequence of trump backing out of the iran deal. Which almost every non US country on earth regards as catastrophically stupid.

Remember when experts in the media said Trump would be a disaster to the US economy?

What happened?

Lowest unemployment in 50 years, record stock market highs, record job growth, record wage growth.

People don't know that it became legal for US media to publish fake propaganda news in 2013:

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News to Americans

For decades, a so-called anti-propaganda law prevented the U.S. government's mammoth broadcasting arm from delivering programming to American audiences.

foreignpolicy.com

A very high percentage of media talking points are absolute and utter garbage.

 

[kkck]

Remember when experts in the media said Trump would be a disaster to the US economy?

What happened?

Lowest unemployment in 50 years, record stock market highs, record job growth, record wage growth.

People don't know that it became legal for US media to publish fake propaganda news in 2013:

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News to Americans

For decades, a so-called anti-propaganda law prevented the U.S. government's mammoth broadcasting arm from delivering programming to American audiences.

foreignpolicy.com

A very high percentage of media talking points are absolute and utter garbage.

Well, sure, but their mistake was making the point that presidents do have that much of a effect on the economy.

So... whats your point? An iran invasion would be easy or something of the sort?

 

[Sanity Check]

Well, sure, but their mistake was making the point that presidents do have that much of a effect on the economy.

So... whats your point? An iran invasion would be easy or something of the sort?

I wouldn't claim to be a military expert or an expert on the topic of Iran.

All I'm going to say is. Trump gets a million times more hate and negative publicity than he deserves due to him being the 1st US President in a long time who isn't a straight puppet for ruling elites.

Russia. Israel. The United States. These 3 places aren't under the direct control of ruling elites. Its the reason they receive disproportionate amounts of hate and fake news published on them by the media.

Elon Musk, amazon and whoever else aren't on team ruling elites also get tons of undeserved negative publicity published about them on a regular basis. Elon Musk/Tesla/SpaceX is a bit of a special case in that they weren't attacked by the media until Musk was outed as a major donor to the republican party.

 

[kkck]

I wouldn't claim to be a military expert or an expert on the topic of Iran.

All I'm going to say is. Trump gets a million times more hate and negative publicity than he deserves due to him being the 1st US President in a long time who isn't a straight puppet for ruling elites.

Russia. Israel. The United States. These 3 places aren't under the direct control of ruling elites. Its the reason they receive disproportionate amounts of hate and fake news published on them by the media.

Elon Musk, amazon and whoever else aren't on team ruling elites also get tons of undeserved negative publicity published about them on a regular basis. Elon Musk/Tesla/SpaceX is a bit of a special case in that they weren't attacked by the media until Musk was outed as a major donor to the republican party.

Who exactly do you think are the ruling elites?

And the notion that trump, a republican who takes millions in big donor donations and thrives in meeting celebrities and other successful rich people in order to pretend he belongs with them, isn't bought and paid for is absurd. trump is the guy who campaign on making it legal for the government to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical companies so that the government could save millions.... And then after a meeting with big pharma CEOs when he was president he immediately backed down from that and blamed germany for high US health care cost. Which is even more stupid than it sounds somehow.

I am not sure of what you mean by russia and israel here. It kinda sounds like you are building up to some new world orde illuminati mumbo jumbo though (though I am not sure, this just reads like something someone deep into that rabbit hole would write).

 

[Sanity Check]

Who exactly do you think are the ruling elites?

And the notion that trump, a republican who takes millions in big donor donations and thrives in meeting celebrities and other successful rich people in order to pretend he belongs with them, isn't bought and paid for is absurd. trump is the guy who campaign on making it legal for the government to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical companies so that the government could save millions.... And then after a meeting with big pharma CEOs when he was president he immediately backed down from that and blamed germany for high US health care cost. Which is even more stupid than it sounds somehow.

I am not sure of what you mean by russia and israel here. It kinda sounds like you are building up to some new world orde illuminati mumbo jumbo though (though I am not sure, this just reads like something someone deep into that rabbit hole would write).

A person need not venture into crazy conspiracy theories to find a counterpoint to everything the media is saying about iran.

They only need to be aware of that 2nd perspective that creeps in whenever the media bothers to report on something like legitimate news:

Iranian-Canadians dance, cheer and celebrate death of top general in Iran

Note how the above link published by msn contradicts the typical media narrative ^.

The same could be said about everything you're saying. Trump has done a lot of good with healthcare. Its never publicized. All people hear is the false narrative, as with iran.

 

[M3J]

Main reason why Trump wasn't such a disaster is because Obama saved the economy from Bush's terrible decision-making. But otherwise the economy doesn't seem to be that much better, people are still struggling to make ends meet, and companies that got tax cuts are laying off people.

But anyway, lol at Trump supporters talking about "real news," as if Breitbart and Fox News aren't usually full of shit .

 

[Sanity Check]

people are still struggling to make ends meet

A partial explanation for that.

 

[kkck]

A person need not venture into crazy conspiracy theories to find a counterpoint to everything the media is saying about iran.

They only need to be aware of that 2nd perspective that creeps in whenever the media bothers to report on something like legitimate news:

Iranian-Canadians dance, cheer and celebrate death of top general in Iran

Note how the above link published by msn contradicts the typical media narrative ^.

The same could be said about everything you're saying. Trump has done a lot of good with healthcare. Its never publicized. All people hear is the false narrative, as with iran.

But... the issue here isn't whether the iranian government is or isn't popular. By all accounts it isn't afaik. There is no narrative contradiction on that regard. The point is: Going to war with iran is by all accounts a terrible idea. Suleimani being an all around bad guy is not in question in this regard.