Discussion Erza Scarlet Thread

[Coné]

I already got a post deleted for being off-topic but I'll say it again. I don't know why most of you press me on things like this when it is clearly obvious. Let me use logic to counter your argument. It seems like most of you here wants to pick a fight with every post I make.

Anyways, nobody has ever mentioned Natsu or Laxus being overrated. Who has a larger fan-base? Gray or Natsu? Natsu. Why? Because people like his character. Anything wrong? No. So according to you guys, Natsu is not overrated. Now, how about Laxus or Jellal? Laxus. Why? Because most people adore his power and strength. Anything wrong here? No. So according to fans, Laxus is not overrated.

So why are Gray and Jellal overrated?? Please, the bias and fanboys have gone way past the limit.

Jellal has enough feats to prove that he is right by Laxus. Yet, his fan-base is comparable to Laxus. So they should be similar. Just because you haven't seen Laxus' fans, doesn't mean they don't exist. In fact, here on the Fairy Tail Forum, you can't say one thing that downgrades Laxus without numerous fans flaming at you. In fact, he probably has the highest amount of followers on this forum as I can name plenty of users off the top of my head in which they would go out of their way to defend Laxus.

Gray was not far behind Natsu for quite sometime until recently. Yet, Natsu's fans has always overtook Gray's fans by a large margin. So how is Natsu less overrated than Gray when Gray has less supporters while being similar to Natsu for most of the series. He even bailed Natsu out of trouble a few times.

My overall point is that characters are liked and not liked for different reasons whether it is because of the character themselves or the viewers' perception of them. Nobody is really overrated or underrated with the exception of a select few. So stop bringing in every character just because you don't like them. It seems like whatever I say, people will find some way to argue with me. I said it before and I will say it again, I don't come on here to pick a fight with anyone so stop trying to find ways and excuses to counter every point on my post. What I said is true and if you look closely, you can tell that Fairy Tail characters are neither overrated nor underrated. It is just who they are that attracts us viewers.

What even? Neither Jellal nor Natsu are overrated except for their little fandoms. The way people see Natsu's power level now is widely accepted in debates and it's also widely accepted that Jellal is someone stronger than Makarov. I agree that Laxus' fans are very defensive, but so are Gray's (I know this from personal experience). I'm just not giving the benefit of doubt to anyone at all. I'm not hyping anyone until I see concrete statements or feats. The same also applies for Erza, which is why I think she's overrated in this specific forum.

 

[Vasgoko]

@Coné

Actually, no, you can't. You can't use bad fights as feat. That's the very definition of overrated.

If you are using Erza's BAD fights to say that she is STRONGER than somebody else like Gray, Mira, or Gajeel, then you are overrating her.

I'd go check your definition again cuz there is no way:

A terrible fight with full of asspulls and no logic = Fairy Tail S-Class and stronger than Gray, Mira, and Gajeel.

 

[iDooom]

@Coné

Actually, no, you can't. You can't use bad fights as feat. That's the very definition of overrated.

If you are using Erza's BAD fights to say that she is STRONGER than somebody else like Gray, Mira, or Gajeel, then you are overrating her.

I'd go check your definition again cuz there is no way:

A terrible fight with full of asspulls and no logic = Fairy Tail S-Class and stronger than Gray, Mira, and Gajeel.

Erza doesn't deserve S-Class... if you ignore every single feat that Erza has ever displayed. Including blocking a Jupiter shot, one-shotting Aria who beat Natsu, fighting a Jose who one-shotted Gray and Elfman, beating 50% Jellal, dodging Racer (who blitzed Natsu and Gray), etc.

Also in case you missed my earlier post, I edited it to make it more obvious.

2 close chances. And barely scratched is a stretch.

Erza obviously was holding back and not using SO. So pre-SO Erza = Kagura.

So basically SO Erza >> Minerva is what you're saying?



Have you ever considered that Jose and Jellal saying Erza is WS level actually means that Erza is WS level?

So what, character statements aren't always true. Erza also hyped Natsu in Phantom Arc, and Ichiya in GMG. Erza already was the leader of the group...

200 is a large number. Considering that Erza blocked a Jupiter shot in Phantom arc, surviving the lacrimas isn't that surprising.

So you're basically saying you don't like her... Also, did you miss the part where Erza told everyone, including Natsu, to stop fighting?

Have you ever considered the possibility that Erza has always been strong? And that this would explain away most of your "asspulls"?

 

[Vasgoko]

Erza doesn't deserve S-Class... if you ignore every single feat that Erza has ever displayed. Including blocking a Jupiter shot, one-shotting Aria who beat Natsu, fighting a Jose who one-shotted Gray and Elfman, beating 50% Jellal, dodging Racer (who blitzed Natsu and Gray), etc.

Also in case you missed my earlier post, I edited it to make it more obvious.

1) Blocking a Jupiter Cannon isn't some great feat. Erza's Adamantine Armor did most of the work, like 98%. If the shot of the cannon ever came into contact with Erza's skin, she would never last a second. Due to the nature of her magic, Erza was able to block it, it doesn't show anything about being strong.


2) Natsu wasn't even that strong at the time. Aria was no big deal, none of the Element Four were that big of a deal. Erza should have been able to beat Aria fairly easily if she was a true S-Class.


3) She couldn't do crap to Jose. Makarov saved her life. Gray and Elfman didn't need a saving..why? Cuz they knew when to stand down after giving it a shot. But typical of Erza, she can't stop babbling and flapping her lips, no wonder Jose wanted to rape her right then and there. Lucky Makarov saved Erza's sorry ass.



4) And don't even get me started with Jellal. Let me remind you that Erza is still alive today at the expense of Simon, who's life was taken away when Erza challenged and lost to Jellal. Tch, but since when does Erza care about anybody but Jellal, Natsu, or Makarov.


5) Yeah, she dodged Racer. Congratz. Gray stopped Racer right in his tracks. A feat 100x better. Don't get too ahead of yourself. Don't forget who saved Erza's arm when Cobra poisoned her. She still owes him you know.

 

[SirSamuel016]

This is a bit of a tough one to answer for me.
Back in the early days, what she did was genuine and a testament to her strength, whereas these days some of her fights have been riddled with what you can call 'asspulls', for example Erza vs Kyouka when Erza hit Kyouka when robbed of all of her senses. I would say as it currently stands, Erza is overrated seeing she has essentially been fluking victory in most fights for a while now and is getting to the stage where she is Hiro's go to character to win via Nakama power when things look dire for FT.

 

[-Ken-]

"being strong" qualifies for "negating asspulls"

Alright everybody, from now on:

if you are "strong" = "no such thing as asspulls for you"

Yay, now Gray can oneshot Acnologia and Zeref in a 1v2. My life is complete.

Except Erza is strong enough to do those "asspull" and Gray is not.

 

[iDooom]

1) Blocking a Jupiter Cannon isn't some great feat. Erza's Adamantine Armor did most of the work, like 98%. If the shot of the cannon ever came into contact with Erza's skin, she would never last a second. Due to the nature of her magic, Erza was able to block it, it doesn't show anything about being strong.


2) Natsu wasn't even that strong at the time. Aria was no big deal, none of the Element Four were that big of a deal. Erza should have been able to beat Aria fairly easily if she was a true S-Class.


3) She couldn't do crap to Jose. Makarov saved her life. Gray and Elfman didn't need a saving..why? Cuz they knew when to stand down after giving it a shot. But typical of Erza, she can't stop babbling and flapping her lips, no wonder Jose wanted to rape her right then and there. Lucky Makarov saved Erza's sorry ass.



4) And don't even get me started with Jellal. Let me remind you that Erza is still alive today at the expense of Simon, who's life was taken away when Erza challenged and lost to Jellal. Tch, but since when does Erza care about anybody but Jellal, Natsu, or Makarov.


5) Yeah, she dodged Racer. Congratz. Gray stopped Racer right in his tracks. A feat 100x better. Don't get too ahead of yourself. Don't forget who saved Erza's arm when Cobra poisoned her. She still owes him you know.

1) "Doesn't show anything about being strong." lol
2) So Erza >>> strongest non S-class FT members means that Erza doesn't deserve S-class...
3) Stand down? More like unconscious...
4) And?
5) Racer wasn't even targeting Gray then... And Gray needed Lyon + Racer's weakness to win...

 

[Shasha23]

You guys are joking if you think Jellal is stronger than Laxus, Jellal was proven to be equal with Jura and Laxus proved to be in that same level by beating Jura so how is Laxus weaker?
Let's not forget Jellal was beaten by start of series Natsu, and then you say Jellal is not overrated.........lol please. I know from previous debates that most of you have claimed rediculous things but forget about that.

Erza is not overrated, her fights would have been stomps if Hiro didn't try to draw them out, Erza's character was killed by Hiro and the fans, she is not overrated. Gray, Gildarts and Jellal are the overrated ones

 

[Brandish μ]

Not the thread for Laxus v Jellal but Natsu beat Jellal with dragon force, and before that Natsu was completely dominated. Laxus and Jellal are comparable imo.

 

[Coné]

@Coné

Actually, no, you can't. You can't use bad fights as feat. That's the very definition of overrated.

If you are using Erza's BAD fights to say that she is STRONGER than somebody else like Gray, Mira, or Gajeel, then you are overrating her.

I'd go check your definition again cuz there is no way:

A terrible fight with full of asspulls and no logic = Fairy Tail S-Class and stronger than Gray, Mira, and Gajeel.

What is this? Do you even know what overrated is? Overrated is saying that Erza is as strong as Laxus because they're both S-class mages and thing like that. But judging her feats in a fair way is overrating her? Then I might just say that Gray vs Silver can't be used for feats because it was a bad battle.

1) Blocking a Jupiter Cannon isn't some great feat. Erza's Adamantine Armor did most of the work, like 98%. If the shot of the cannon ever came into contact with Erza's skin, she would never last a second. Due to the nature of her magic, Erza was able to block it, it doesn't show anything about being strong.


2) Natsu wasn't even that strong at the time. Aria was no big deal, none of the Element Four were that big of a deal. Erza should have been able to beat Aria fairly easily if she was a true S-Class.


3) She couldn't do crap to Jose. Makarov saved her life. Gray and Elfman didn't need a saving..why? Cuz they knew when to stand down after giving it a shot. But typical of Erza, she can't stop babbling and flapping her lips, no wonder Jose wanted to rape her right then and there. Lucky Makarov saved Erza's sorry ass.



4) And don't even get me started with Jellal. Let me remind you that Erza is still alive today at the expense of Simon, who's life was taken away when Erza challenged and lost to Jellal. Tch, but since when does Erza care about anybody but Jellal, Natsu, or Makarov.


5) Yeah, she dodged Racer. Congratz. Gray stopped Racer right in his tracks. A feat 100x better. Don't get too ahead of yourself. Don't forget who saved Erza's arm when Cobra poisoned her. She still owes him you know.

1) Blocking Jupiter is a durability feat no matter how you see it. It might have been because of Adamantine Armor, but if you're going to say that it isn't a legit feat, we might just take feats from Etherious Torafuza or the Dragons, just because it was the nature of their scales lol

2) Erza literally rekt Aria.

3) Irrelevant point. You're just trashtalking her by now.

4) What does that matter for this discussion at all?

5) And again, why are you using Nirvana feats to back up your point? Erza has had several feats that prove that she's fa and strong since then.

 

[Brandish μ]

Erza using Adamantine armor is just the same as anyone else using a defensive spell imo, her MP would be what is making the defense of the armor that strong. It's just like Jura shielding himself from Grand Chariot, just she summoned an armor instead of a rock mountain (and she stopped the blast itself).

 

[Coné]

Erza using Adamantine armor is just the same as anyone else using a defensive spell imo, her MP would be what is making the defense of the armor that strong. It's just like Jura shielding himself from Grand Chariot, just she summoned an armor instead of a rock mountain (and she stopped the blast itself).

She took the hit physically. It should account as tanking Jupiter, which is durability. If it's not durability, it's defense, which will more or less get us the same thing in this case.

 

[Brandish μ]

She took the hit physically. It should account as tanking Jupiter, which is durability. If it's not durability, it's defense, which will more or less get us the same thing in this case.

It's definitely defense, and also durability (the armor broke for instance). The armor would have just stopped a fair bit of the blast, and then her durability kept her from being destroyed too. I do agree that defense/durability can just be the same thing anyways just means there's attacks you can and cannot take for both categories.

Erza was dropped by Jupiter, she was not able to continue fighting right then and there, so I don't think she tanked it.

 

[Vasgoko]

Erza using Adamantine armor is just the same as anyone else using a defensive spell imo, her MP would be what is making the defense of the armor that strong. It's just like Jura shielding himself from Grand Chariot, just she summoned an armor instead of a rock mountain (and she stopped the blast itself).

@Coné @Brandish


Really? So is Freed durable?

You are wrong..Who has more defensive SPELLS?

Erza or Gildartz? Erza or Natsu?

Gajeel or Cobra? Gajeel or Kagura?


You guys are so biased. Some magic were made to be more defensive than others. Same with offensive.

There is a reason why Erza's magic is ARMOR requipping. It gives her the upper hand to find an ARMOR that she sees fit for that situation.

A flying rock can go through Natsu's flame, but Erza can block that.

Gajeel naturally has durable and hard skin which is why Natsu injured himself when he punched Gajeel in Phantom. Gajeel's magic is naturally superior for defensive operations. Same with Erza.

It's bullshit to say that everybody's defensive spell is the same because certain situations call for certain magic.


Who's better at creating large explosions?

Natsu or Gajeel?
Natsu or Erza?


Who is better to dodge and avoid attacks?

Laxus or Erza?
Laxus or Elfman?


Who is better to fly?

Happy or Natsu?
Carla or Wendy?
Pantherlily or Gajeel?




Gray can freeze bodies of water, make bridges, etc.

Can Erza? No.
Can Lucy? No.
Can Natsu? No.
Can Wendy? No. In fact, Wendy is Sky magic, the opposite of making something tangible.


Gray made a platform of ice for Gray and Loke to get to the island from the ship in Tenrou Arc.

Gray MADE A KEY in Edolas to turn on the dragon cannon.

Could Erza use her Sword or Armor and turn the thing on? NO.

Gray made a flight of stairs to get onto Hades Ship in Tenrou since Hades wouldn't give them a way in...




You see? Erza's responsibility was to tank the cannon cuz her Adamantine Armor is capable of doing so. Natsu's flame can't do the job. You guys are seriously biased.

Blocking Jupiter is no feat cuz that was what Erza was meant to do.







Listen and listen carefully.

If I ask you what makes Erza strong and skilled at Requipping Magic.

You can use blocking Jupiter as an example...that's ok.


When I ask you to give me proof of something that MAKES HER STRONGER THAN OTHERS..

You can't use that feat cuz Jupiter was more for Erza to block than for Gray, Mira, Elfman, Cana, and Natsu to block

 

[Brandish μ]

@Coné @Brandish


Really? So is Freed durable?

You are wrong..Who has more defensive SPELLS?

Erza or Gildartz? Erza or Natsu?

Gajeel or Cobra? Gajeel or Kagura?


You guys are so biased. Some magic were made to be more defensive than others. Same with offensive.

There is a reason why Erza's magic is ARMOR requipping. It gives her the upper hand to find an ARMOR that she sees fit for that situation.

A flying rock can go through Natsu's flame, but Erza can block that.

Gajeel naturally has durable and hard skin which is why Natsu injured himself when he punched Gajeel in Phantom. Gajeel's magic is naturally superior for defensive operations. Same with Erza.

It's bullshit to say that everybody's defensive spell is the same because certain situations call for certain magic.


Who's better at creating large explosions?

Natsu or Gajeel?
Natsu or Erza?


Who is better to dodge and avoid attacks?

Laxus or Erza?
Laxus or Elfman?


Who is better to fly?

Happy or Natsu?
Carla or Wendy?
Pantherlily or Gajeel?




Gray can freeze bodies of water, make bridges, etc.

Can Erza? No.
Can Lucy? No.
Can Natsu? No.
Can Wendy? No. In fact, Wendy is Sky magic, the opposite of making something tangible.


Gray made a platform of ice for Gray and Loke to get to the island from the ship in Tenrou Arc.

Gray MADE A KEY in Edolas to turn on the dragon cannon.

Could Erza use her Sword or Armor and turn the thing on? NO.

Gray made a flight of stairs to get onto Hades Ship in Tenrou since Hades wouldn't give them a way in...




You see? Erza's responsibility was to tank the cannon cuz her Adamantine Armor is capable of doing so. Natsu's flame can't do the job. You guys are seriously biased.

Blocking Jupiter is no feat cuz that was what Erza was meant to do.







Listen and listen carefully.

If I ask you what makes Erza strong and skilled at Requipping Magic.

You can use blocking Jupiter as an example...that's ok.


When I ask you to give me proof of something that MAKES HER STRONGER THAN OTHERS..

You can't use that feat cuz Jupiter was more for Erza to block than for Gray, Mira, Elfman, Cana, and Natsu to block

Lol you've clearly misread the posts... I said defense and durability (in the other post), and the discussion revolved around that between @Coné and I. And no one is saying blocking Jupiter is the only reason Erza > others, it was clear that people are talking about durability/defense there.

Freed - with time to prepare he has shown to build runes Makarov couldn't break. His durability is not so flash, as seen in his fights.
Natsu - Natsu's only way to avoid taking hits is evasion, so his defense is rather low, unless against fire. His durability (Tartarus) is comparable to Erza's imo, he'd be only behind Makarov, Gildarts and Laxus for sure, and above the likes of Mira or Gray.
Gildarts - Disassembly to me is a defensive spell, or at least it has defensive qualities. His durability is the on the top level with Mard, Hades, Makarov as far as pre-skip characters go.

Saying someone's magic is made to be more defensive doesn't mean any thing to me, the magic people use is the magic they use. According to Zeref (in FT zero) wizards have an affinity for magic. So Gray's would be for ice, Laxus for lightning etc. Erza's just happens to be re-quip, so we can't flame her for having it. It's not even a more defensive magic, it is a more versatile one. It gives her a range of abilities and offense/defense. The only area the versatility doesn't cover is ranged offense. I agree every wizard has there own set of capabilities where they excel, but this was never something I opposed anyway.

Then there is your point about the armors... these require magic power. Nakagami hadn't been warn for 10 years simply because no one else with requip magic had the required magic power. It sounds like you think there is no magic or skill involved in putting on these armors. Would you say Kagura is given a huge advantage because she gets to use an offensive weapon like archenemy? No, she can wield it like no others can, and her prowess with it is dependent on her skill and magic power (and don't bring in gravity, it is very much secondary to her swordsmanship, based on her fights so far).

I see what you're trying to say - that Erza's defensive capabilities is above Gray/Natsu etc so it shouldn't be considered in comparing their power. I agree and disagree with this. I agree in the sense that using one particular category to define overall strength is not sound assessment. I disagree when you're implying that Erza's Jupiter feat should not be used at all. It would be like saying "we can't use Mira's speed feats because she's the only one who can fly" or something like that. Idk how you do things but the best ways to compare people is by considering every category (speed, offense, defense, endurance, durability etc) and then try and equate who is better; OR how they performed in fights.

As of Tartarus arc, my opinion is that Erza has outperformed Gray and Mira for sure. The only time Gray can lay claim to being superior is against a demon. Natsu is closer to Erza's overall power/ability but I'd still say Erza is just ahead. This is how I think they rank: Erza > Natsu > Gray > Mira, based on their combat effectiveness. It's not like anyone is saying she'd beat Laxus or Gildarts in here anyways. The others she could.

 

[kkck]

^Well, as far as mira goes the tartarus arc information would imply that not only erza outperformed her but also that mira at the time does not even vaguely compare to erza and even the rest of the gang. In context it makes a lot of sense. For one thing mira stopped fighting for years after she thought she lost lisana. Even if she initially compared to erza it makes sense she would weaken. Then there were the grand magic games and erza got second origin while mira did not. It makes complete sense that erza would be stronger from this point onward. Then we have the tartarus arc. Going by stats in the volumes we can get a pretty good idea of how each demon ranked against others. In this context sayla and kyoka are important. Kyoka at least more or less doubled sayla's stats. In turn what we saw is mirajane having a fair bit of trouble with sayla while erza managed to fight pretty well with kyoka most of the time. Going by numbers alone, erza easily and instantly overpowers mira. And of course we can compare mira to the rest of the gang as well. It's not as big a difference but as far as numbers we can make the case that tempesta and torafusa are the greater fighters. Sayla has greater curse power and intelligence than either but in turn the two of them easily outclass her in terms of offense defense and speed. And even then, we saw natsu and gajeel using their hybrid element modes to easily overwhelm either IIRC. Torafusa was only a problem for gajeel when he used his water but other than that he didn't seem to have that much trouble.

 

[REN KOUEN]

erza is my favorite character in this manga, she is certainly not overrated

now i do believe natsu has caught her or maybe passed her up, but she could probably hold her own against laxus or natsu in a fight, maybe even win

but i dont think she could beat zeref or gildarts in a fight

 

[kkck]

I would argue that at least natsu, erza, gajeel and grey would defeat pre time skip gildarts in a fight. Their power has increased significantly and they have not even shown all their stuff. So the issue here would be whether gildarts has grown as much as, say, laxus over the timeskip. If he has the he probably would still have an edge over the gang. That said, I do doubt he could win against at least natsu or gajeel once dragon force is a thing. If we consider their implied power so far then doubling or tripling it with dragon force would be insane.

 

[REN KOUEN]

I would argue that at least natsu, erza, gajeel and grey would defeat pre time skip gildarts in a fight. Their power has increased significantly and they have not even shown all their stuff. So the issue here would be whether gildarts has grown as much as, say, laxus over the timeskip. If he has the he probably would still have an edge over the gang. That said, I do doubt he could win against at least natsu or gajeel once dragon force is a thing. If we consider their implied power so far then doubling or tripling it with dragon force would be insane.

well this isnt a gildarts thread, so im not going to go too deep into this

but the dude survived an enounter with acknologia

i would assume ..... even post time skip he would still have an edge on everyone

i just dont see any of them being that much more powerful, he is a flat out monster, and i think hes the only guy in the manga who would have a shot at beating zeref 1v1 right now

 

[kkck]

well this isnt a gildarts thread, so im not going to go too deep into this

but the dude survived an enounter with acknologia

i would assume ..... even post time skip he would still have an edge on everyone

i just dont see any of them being that much more powerful, he is a flat out monster, and i think hes the only guy in the manga who would have a shot at beating zeref 1v1 right now

I was under the impression that gildarts didn't really do anything against acknologia. We saw how laxus with DS magic fared against atlasflame and zirconis... Even with power comparable to gildarts his DS magic didn't do anything against dragons weaker than acknologia. A mage of gildarts class can simply never hope to offer acknologia any form of resistance. If gildarts survived its not because he had the skill to actually oppose acknologia but rather because acknologia thought nothing of him. Even when acknologia fought makarov and FT gildarts made the point that acknologia was fooling around with them. And when the roar came not one of them was able to offer resistance. Gildarts survived because either acknologia didn't care enough to finish him. And even then he lost a bunch of organs and limbs.

Beating zeref? The manga has shown that even freaking makarov and his superior wizard saints fall short of a single one of zeref's lackeys, the springan. Gildarts is someone that with difficulty won against bluenote whom current natsu defeated in an instant. The power gildarts had 1 year ago is not a benchmark of anything anymore. Gildarts could have grown stronger over the past year but even if he did his power will probably at best be comparable to one of the springan which should still fall short of zeref. Maybe august will be special but even then I would be skeptical of him holding his ground against zeref.