Canon God Serena VS Gildarts

[Char]

@Kay3795

How are you so sure, though? Spriggan level is a combination of obscene raw MP + out of this world abilities. All of them have similar amounts of MP (bar August/Irene).
Bradman is spriggan level because he's intangible and he can intoxicate anyone within a certain reach.
Wahl is spriggan level because he likely can bust an island with his etherion.
Dimaria is spriggan level because she can stop time.
Jacob is spriggan level because he's got dominion over a dimension in which he can kill anyone.
Ajeel is spriggan level because he's got sandworld and you don't know where he's coming from + intangible + can dehydrate you.
BRandish is spriggan level because she can shrink or enlarge literally anything.
Invel is spriggan level because he can create tons of ice without breaking a sweat + instafroze a high tier character (Mavis).
Larcade is spriggan level because he's got a rare MP which has potential to defeat Acnologia.
God Serena is spriggan level because he's a noob at 8 elements ????

Obviously not. In order to make up for the hax that he does not posess and other spriggan characters do posess, he necessarily must have acquired mastery over his 8 elements. And I do believe he did.

It's true that AoE + DC, Natsu's fire seems to be above God Serena's; but we haven't seen God Serena go all out. We do know that his water is far beyond Juvia's competences, and that his versatility and array of attacks can overwhelm even the main cast.

Again, he's not spriggan level because he's a noob at 8 elements. He MUST necessarily be a master at them, or at least at some of them.

 

[Crimson Ice]

I know I'm a God Serena-tard but that doesn't mean that I don't judge all characters equally. When I say God Serena wouldn't be defeated by Laxus is because I operate under the assumption that God Serena is superior to Ajeel or Wahl.

Nothing proves that Serena is above the likes of Wahl let alone stronger enough to beat someone who was capable one shotting Wahl.

Is it a baseless assumption? It is not. All spriggan were said to be on the same level as all S-class mages were said to be on the same level. Then it turns out Laxus and Mystgun were much more powerful than Erza and Mira, and that Glidartz was above everyone.

Yes, it is, all Spirggans bar August and Irene are said to be on the same level and that was reinforced as soon as either August or Irene was introduced. As for the S-Class when was it stated that they were all on the same level? That was never said.

So we shouldn't just stick to the same old portrayal. It is rather clear not all the spriggans are as powerful. They may have similar amounts of MP, but MP is not everything. Neinhart has enough MP to summon 3 Spriggan-level characters and his durability is shitty, so one thing makes up for the other (extreme MP (maybe superior to other spriggan's) + shitty durability = spriggan level character).

If nothing contradicts that portrayal why not? It;s not clear that all Spriggans are as powerful? With the exception of Irene and August and maybe Dimaria what says that. Also, you're also trying to reinforce the misconception that Neinhart has bad durability which is laughable.

I believe Laxus wouldn't be capable of beating Serena as much as I think he wouldn't be capable of beating Dimaria. And if according to you, all spriggans bar August/Irene are on the same level, then you must agree that Laxus could solo all of them bar August/Irene, am I right?

He can beat pretty much all of them bar Irene/August the only X factor is Dimaria.

You may stick to the same old portrayal if you want and I'm gonna respect your opinion (operating under the assumption that all spriggans bar August/Irene are equals). Now I think I've got my reasons to think otherwise and you cannot deny it. The performance of different spriggans has proved that they rank differently. Their hax and powers also proves they could beat enemies that others simply couldn't.

Nothing contradicts the portrayal, especially with Serena when the 12 have been explicitly stated to be at least on Serena's level.

If God Serena happens to posess the lightning element, it'll be the same case scenario as against Wahl: God Serena will not be affected by him. We don't know God Serena's CQC abilities but we do know he tanked a Wolfheim punch and he was harmless. If you ask me Wolfheim's punch should be > Laxus magicless punch.

He doesn't currently so that's irrelevant.

By that same token, if we don't know how strong they were to begin with, how can you claim 'it means nothing' to have fodderized them? You could at least say "we don't know if defeating the 3GoI+Jura is nothing or actually means something".

Warrod himself has admitted he's weaker as hell, nor has anything shown that as a collective they would be able to combat a Spriggan, as a collective they have had a shit showing and nothing but outdated ranks to show for their power.

Why? Glidartz > Laxus, Laxus high diffed Wahl but he was at a disadvantage, normally he'd easy-mid diff him, so Glidartz easy diffs him. Around the same for Ajeel.

Gildarts has done close to nothing but yet you're saying he's the strongest?

 

[Char]

Nothing proves that Serena is above the likes of Wahl let alone stronger enough to beat someone who was capable one shotting Wahl.

Nothing proves otherwise but the portrayal you decide to abide by. Now you're saying all spriggans bar August/Irene are as strong, then I have no argument to claim otherwise. The only argument I could use is that whereas Erza was fighting Ajeel decently, in this chapter she seemed overwhelmed by God Serena. Similarly Natsu who didn't have too much trouble with Jacob was having problems with God Serena. Now you're gonna say that the fight is indeterminate and PIS because the main cast has yet to counterattack (which they'll likely NOT do as Glidartz has showed up) so again, I see your point in assessing all spriggans bar the super duo equally but I refuse to looking at their performance. I think we've got reasons to think that Hyberion is at least on Erza's level and whereas Erza was fighting Ajeel, Hyberion could do nothing against God Serena; but then you're going to destroy this argument by saying we have no proof Hyberion is on Erza's level, so we're not going to agree.

If nothing contradicts that portrayal why not? It;s not clear that all Spriggans are as powerful? With the exception of Irene and August and maybe Dimaria what says that. Also, you're also trying to reinforce the misconception that Neinhart has bad durability which is laughable.

IMO common sense does. As much as it is true that portrayal puts the 10 spriggans on the same level, it's also true that portrayal put the 4 GoI as simply Ishgar's mightiest forces. The GoI are featless. The only feat they have is pathetically losing to God Serena. If you believe God Serena = other 9 spriggans then, again, there's nothing I can do to make you think otherwise. I will only say that, as much as Warrod downplayed himself, he was just being humble (later stated by Erza). The 3 GoI were portrayed as much stronger than GMG Jura. Jura doesn't seem to have improved so I'd say current Jura = GMG Jura so we've got a GMG Jura (WS tier) and 3 stronger mages (WS tier ++) who were UTTERLY powerless against a spriggan level wizard. That tells you they're shitty, that tells me God Serena is above other spriggans. We'll know... if they appear again.

He can beat pretty much all of them bar Irene/August the only X factor is Dimaria.

He can beat Ajeel, Jacob, Wahl. Brandish, Larcade and Invel are featless. He cannot beat Dimaria. Probably not Bradman either. Neinhart, it depends, if he summons 3 spriggans and properly protect him, I don't think he's gonna get beaten by Laxus.

If Glidartz low or mid diffs God Serena then I'm gonna assume Laxus could do so, unless God Serena is immune to lightning.

Gildarts has done close to nothing but yet you're saying he's the strongest?

You're a portrayal lover so I don't understand why it shocks you. Glidartz has always been the strongest FT member, stronger than Laxus. Apparently, and the last chapter confirms so, he still is. I mean the last chapter also says God Serena is the strongest mage they've ever faced and it's not true; but you know what I mean. Glidartz > Laxus, is it really laughable? I thought we all think this way after last chapter.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Nothing proves otherwise but the portrayal you decide to abide by. Now you're saying all spriggans bar August/Irene are as strong, then I have no argument to claim otherwise. The only argument I could use is that whereas Erza was fighting Ajeel decently, in this chapter she seemed overwhelmed by God Serena. Similarly Natsu who didn't have too much trouble with Jacob was having problems with God Serena. Now you're gonna say that the fight is indeterminate and PIS because the main cast has yet to counterattack (which they'll likely NOT do as Glidartz has showed up) so again, I see your point in assessing all spriggans bar the super duo equally but I refuse to looking at their performance. I think we've got reasons to think that Hyberion is at least on Erza's level and whereas Erza was fighting Ajeel, Hyberion could do nothing against God Serena; but then you're going to destroy this argument by saying we have no proof Hyberion is on Erza's level, so we're not going to agree.

Nothing proves what I say bar multiple character statements and the portrayal the manga has given us......While you have nothing. Erza herself WAS NOT overwhelmed by Serena and all of them literally just stood in his attack unaffected by it. As for Natsu he had A LOT of trouble with Jacob:

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/478/7
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/478/8
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/478/12
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/479/7
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/479/8

Again Natsu was happily eating Serena's attacks and when he added his water he simply kept Natsu in place and was doing no damage. Serena was NOT OVERWHELMING team Natsu, at all. Reasons? What reason would Hyberion be on Erza's level because I would love to hear them? And you're are right Hyberion has not feats to put him on Erza's level, he got one-sidely destroy by a Spirggan when he had help and Erza held her own. So please tell me how he's Erza's level?

IMO common sense does. As much as it is true that portrayal puts the 10 spriggans on the same level, it's also true that portrayal put the 4 GoI as simply Ishgar's mightiest forces. The GoI are featless. The only feat they have is pathetically losing to God Serena. If you believe God Serena = other 9 spriggans then, again, there's nothing I can do to make you think otherwise. I will only say that, as much as Warrod downplayed himself, he was just being humble (later stated by Erza). The 3 GoI were portrayed as much stronger than GMG Jura. Jura doesn't seem to have improved so I'd say current Jura = GMG Jura so we've got a GMG Jura (WS tier) and 3 stronger mages (WS tier ++) who were UTTERLY powerless against a spriggan level wizard. That tells you they're shitty, that tells me God Serena is above other spriggans. We'll know... if they appear again.

Portrayal doesn't put the GoI as the mightiest forces, you have that one statement from Mavis and that was probably due to their rank which is outdated. Warrod wasn't being humble, yeah he has impressive but his magic itself is not a good offensive magic and he is seemingly a support type mage. All you know is that the GoI are stronger than GMG Jura by a decent amount, any Spirggan bar Ninehart could foddderize them and Neinhart doesn't purely because his magic strength depends on how strong his opponent is.

He can beat Ajeel, Jacob, Wahl. Brandish, Larcade and Invel are featless. He cannot beat Dimaria. Probably not Bradman either. Neinhart, it depends, if he summons 3 spriggans and properly protect him, I don't think he's gonna get beaten by Laxus.

How does he beat Jacob? How does he get stopped from getting BFRed right off the bat? And Wahl how does he beat Wahl? When Wahl has more impressive feats than Serena and supposedly has the super trump card with the etheroin canon?

If Glidartz low or mid diffs God Serena then I'm gonna assume Laxus could do so, unless God Serena is immune to lightning.

We agree on something. I even said that Gildarts should low-dif Serena in the same manner Jellal did to Neinhart and Laxus after he had his MBP cured.

You're a portrayal lover so I don't understand why it shocks you. Glidartz has always been the strongest FT member, stronger than Laxus. Apparently, and the last chapter confirms so, he still is. I mean the last chapter also says God Serena is the strongest mage they've ever faced and it's not true; but you know what I mean. Glidartz > Laxus, is it really laughable? I thought we all think this way after last chapter.

Last chapter confirms it? So you're using that editor note or whatever it is as evidence? As for portrayal among the FT gang, I am doubtful . Everyone has had a huge power inflation and certain character's portrayal among the FT gang like Erza>Natsu. That's why I'm waiting for Gildarts too actually do something.

 

[Kay3795]

@Kay3795

How are you so sure, though? Spriggan level is a combination of obscene raw MP + out of this world abilities. All of them have similar amounts of MP (bar August/Irene).
Bradman is spriggan level because he's intangible and he can intoxicate anyone within a certain reach.
Wahl is spriggan level because he likely can bust an island with his etherion.
Dimaria is spriggan level because she can stop time.
Jacob is spriggan level because he's got dominion over a dimension in which he can kill anyone.
Ajeel is spriggan level because he's got sandworld and you don't know where he's coming from + intangible + can dehydrate you.
BRandish is spriggan level because she can shrink or enlarge literally anything.
Invel is spriggan level because he can create tons of ice without breaking a sweat + instafroze a high tier character (Mavis).
Larcade is spriggan level because he's got a rare MP which has potential to defeat Acnologia.
God Serena is spriggan level because he's a noob at 8 elements ????

Obviously not. In order to make up for the hax that he does not posess and other spriggan characters do posess, he necessarily must have acquired mastery over his 8 elements. And I do believe he did.

It's true that AoE + DC, Natsu's fire seems to be above God Serena's; but we haven't seen God Serena go all out. We do know that his water is far beyond Juvia's competences, and that his versatility and array of attacks can overwhelm even the main cast.

Again, he's not spriggan level because he's a noob at 8 elements. He MUST necessarily be a master at them, or at least at some of them.

You're confusing & mixing up power with proficiency. Give Juvia Spriggian-tier MP & she'd be a sprrigian combatant.

 

[Char]

Nothing proves what I say bar multiple character statements and the portrayal the manga has given us......While you have nothing. Erza herself WAS NOT overwhelmed by Serena and all of them literally just stood in his attack unaffected by it. As for Natsu he had A LOT of trouble with Jacob:

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/478/7
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/478/8
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/478/12
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/479/7
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/479/8

He was having problems because he could not go all out inside the guild, he could have well activated his BDKM and go all out from the beginning, but that'd have destroyed the guild (it was stated by Max and Warren I think).

How does he beat Jacob? How does he get stopped from getting BFRed right off the bat? And Wahl how does he beat Wahl? When Wahl has more impressive feats than Serena and supposedly has the super trump card with the etheroin canon?

You got me wrong, I was talking about Laxus, not Serena.

All in all, you make good points so I concede. I guess you have more arguments to defend that GoI = trash than I do to defend them. I still think Hyberion is Erza level and that God Serena > many spriggans, but we'll see I guess.

 

[Static]

He was having problems because he could not go all out inside the guild, he could have well activated his BDKM and go all out from the beginning, but that'd have destroyed the guild (it was stated by Max and Warren I think).



You got me wrong, I was talking about Laxus, not Serena.

All in all, you make good points so I concede. I guess you have more arguments to defend that GoI = trash than I do to defend them. I still think Hyberion is Erza level and that God Serena > many spriggans, but we'll see I guess.

To be fair, Jacob had his ability completely negated by CiS and PiS. Had he had Transport, I believe Natsu would've been teleported rather quickly unless he is fast enough to dodge the radius of Transport (which has only been shown so far to be able to encompass the Guild Hall) and I think he has not shown those speed feats yet other than propelling himself in mid-air after Makarov threw him but that's only logical. However, it is as you say that without Transport, Jacob is quite underwhelming for a Spriggan (moreso than Neinhart and Ajeel) but he can quite easily take an opponent off-guard by staying invisible and stab them - thus killing them.

I can't say who is stronger yet - God Serena or Jacob w/hax. I guess we will find out in the next few chapters.

 

[SirSamuel016]

As I currently see it, the fight we'll get between these two in the manga will be a bit different to what we'd get in a proper fight between the two. Why do I say this? Because in the manga, Serena is currently a Historia, and they've shown to have somewhat poor durability in the long run and the Serena historia might not live up to the real deal, hence manga-wise I'd say Gildarts would win mid diff only due to the fact that this Serena is a historia.

If we were to get the actual God Serena vs Gildarts though, then I'd say it'd be a much more difficult fight that could well see God Serena come out on top. Gildarts might've crashes Serena's magic, but he hasn't actually shown any improvement combat-wise yet, so I think it might be jumping the gun when people say it'd be a clear win for Gildarts.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

As I currently see it, the fight we'll get between these two in the manga will be a bit different to what we'd get in a proper fight between the two. Why do I say this? Because in the manga, Serena is currently a Historia, and they've shown to have somewhat poor durability in the long run and the Serena historia might not live up to the real deal, hence manga-wise I'd say Gildarts would win mid diff only due to the fact that this Serena is a historia.

If we were to get the actual God Serena vs Gildarts though, then I'd say it'd be a much more difficult fight that could well see God Serena come out on top. Gildarts might've crashes Serena's magic, but he hasn't actually shown any improvement combat-wise yet, so I think it might be jumping the gun when people say it'd be a clear win for Gildarts.

I don't see any difference between a historia and the person when they were alive. God Serena's magic, abilities, and stats shouldn't change at all. This means whatever he showcases in the upcoming chapters would accurately depict his true power before he died.

One thing I question here is... When were the historias were shown to have poor durability?

 

[Brandish μ]

Historia's are the same as their real selves as far as I know. Apart from Erza being able to overpower them with fear, I don't think there's any reason to think a Historia is different.

It'd take a reduction in power via feats and/or a comment from Neinhart to make me think Serena real > Serena Historia. So far this isn't the case.

 

[Firepower]

As I currently see it, the fight we'll get between these two in the manga will be a bit different to what we'd get in a proper fight between the two. Why do I say this? Because in the manga, Serena is currently a Historia, and they've shown to have somewhat poor durability in the long run and the Serena historia might not live up to the real deal, hence manga-wise I'd say Gildarts would win mid diff only due to the fact that this Serena is a historia.

If we were to get the actual God Serena vs Gildarts though, then I'd say it'd be a much more difficult fight that could well see God Serena come out on top. Gildarts might've crashes Serena's magic, but he hasn't actually shown any improvement combat-wise yet, so I think it might be jumping the gun when people say it'd be a clear win for Gildarts.

The historias were enemies that ft fought long ago. They seemed lesser because they had high diff fights before, but since then ft got stronger and past enemies who died cannot get stronger, therefore they can't produce the same kind of fight they did when ft members were around their level.

 

[Boomburst]

Historia's are the same as their real selves as far as I know. Apart from Erza being able to overpower them with fear, I don't think there's any reason to think a Historia is different.

It'd take a reduction in power via feats and/or a comment from Neinhart to make me think Serena real > Serena Historia. So far this isn't the case.

I don't understand why you would just ignore Erza destroying them with a stare and just put it to the side as an exception. There were no special circumstances in which that happened, and despite Neinhart's comment there's no evidence that her connection with Irene was the reason that the Historias disappeared. Unless we get confirmation otherwise I think that this is pretty solid evidence that Historias aren't as difficult to defeat as their real counterparts.

 

[Brandish μ]

I don't understand why you would just ignore Erza destroying them with a stare and just put it to the side as an exception. There were no special circumstances in which that happened, and despite Neinhart's comment there's no evidence that her connection with Irene was the reason that the Historias disappeared. Unless we get confirmation otherwise I think that this is pretty solid evidence that Historias aren't as difficult to defeat as their real counterparts.

Well, the way I see it is the Historia who got the most attention, Ur, was said to be powerful from Lyon. Gray knew it wasn't the real person, but there wasn't any inkling that Ur Historia < Ur real. Combat wise I didn't get the Ur or the other Historia's were lesser beings.

Erza's Historia were also not implied to be weaker. The difference was Erza defeated them by fear. This probably means the weakness to Historia's is that fear can destroy them. That, or Erza has a special power we don't know about (Neinhart called it 'overwhelming magic power').

So I'd say the 3 ways to beat a Historia are
- defeat them in combat (KO/kill)
- defeat Neinhart
- make the Historia's afraid.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Serena is Bluenote in this picture,

 

[Arjuna]

@SirSamuel016 Congratulations.You are right.Even Gildarts is not sure who will if God Serena and him clashed.So the victory may go anywhere as original God Serena is stronger than his Historia.

 

[Laxus chan-yo]

As I currently see it, the fight we'll get between these two in the manga will be a bit different to what we'd get in a proper fight between the two. Why do I say this? Because in the manga, Serena is currently a Historia, and they've shown to have somewhat poor durability in the long run and the Serena historia might not live up to the real deal, hence manga-wise I'd say Gildarts would win mid diff only due to the fact that this Serena is a historia.

If we were to get the actual God Serena vs Gildarts though, then I'd say it'd be a much more difficult fight that could well see God Serena come out on top. Gildarts might've crashes Serena's magic, but he hasn't actually shown any improvement combat-wise yet, so I think it might be jumping the gun when people say it'd be a clear win for Gildarts.

Based prediction is based.

Anyway since this may be the last we see of Serena I am going with Serena >= Gildarts. Gildarts clearly has respect for him and is the one who wants to fight him kind of like how Natsu always wanted to fight Erza or Laxus. His treatment of the GoI, mastery of 8 elements, and overall hype kind of cements him as the one true strongest of Ishgar.

 

[Brandish μ]

@SirSamuel016 was correct for once so I am going to change my verdict to God Serena wins high diff due to feats. Overall I'll say Gildarts ~ God Serena, with Gildarts a better chance at being stronger.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I don't see any difference between a historia and the person when they were alive. God Serena's magic, abilities, and stats shouldn't change at all. This means whatever he showcases in the upcoming chapters would accurately depict his true power before he died.

One thing I question here is... When were the historias were shown to have poor durability?

Yeah, [B]SirSamuel016[/B] was right. I know this isn't necessarily on topic, but to be very honest, I am very disappointed with how Neinhart's magic was explained and shown. None of it follows the original purpose and design of his magic to begin with. Anyways, with that said, my previous post can be disregarded.

And to answer my own question, not only were the historias shown to have poor durability but pretty much every other stat was not an accurate representation of the real ones.

 

[Orgastthemage]

Time has come to settle this,

Lots of thoughts are spread across the fairy tail sector of the forum site regarding both of the mages concerned here. Gildarts himself says Serena would be a Tough opponent to face, however, we have not yet seen Serena go all out. Given all the hype gildarts has gotten, who knows if he's still FT's ace, how would he fare against ishgar's appointed number one?

Note: take into account the possibility of Serena combining all eight(8) elements into one
Mode(how strong would he be?), and take into consideration how easily Gildarts finished off Historia Serena(albeit using a named move). Still impressive though when compared to the likes of Minerva and Rogue's performances(I take Serena's historia as the strongest of them).

 

[Nemispelled]

Gildartz should take this mid-high diff.

Gildartz is undoubtedly one of the strongest mages of Ishgar, hence his epithet of "Strongest in the West".

Honestly, Gildartz has always been leagues higher than FT's strongest mages (Laxus, Natsu, Mystogan, Erza, Mira, Gray, and Gajeel).

By current feats, Gildartz lacks a little.

But by overall feats in the series, Gildartz has a track record of being top-tier Spriggan caliber.

Mashima didn't hype him up and exclude him in most of FT's battles for nothing. It's only a matter of time before Gildartz shows current feats to prove it.

Gildartz is the one character of FT that Mashima has kept pretty consistent... just like August, he isn't going to be a disappointment.