Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[M3J]

based on the context, Hyo was talking about it being a haki ability.

 

[kcd]

No matter how I look at it the only way it makes any sense to me is if Luffy’s “defensive haki” cancels out Doflamingo’s “offensive haki” (I put them in quotes because they are the same thing but for the case of this description it’s easier to label them that way) and keeps his body rubbery. But that doesn’t make any sense to me in ANY of the ways that people have theorized that haki works.

Haha... That's what I used to think. But then I realised it made haki look even more complicated. The reason I think this is because, if we go by that, then it means Luffy's very own haki 'on himself' would've prevented him from being rubber in the first place. Like he stops being rubber whenever he uses haki.
But since haki don't negate devil-fruit abilities unlike Blackbeard and seastone, then we have every reason to believe it's normal for them to retain their properties as well.

The situation with doffy still makes a bit of sense to me in that, Luffy's own haki stopped the pain he would've otherwise felt, if he hadn't defended with haki. But since haki don't stop him from being rubber, his body still behaved like one. More so with the fact he was inflated. Like really inflated. Unlike in the encounter with Garp where an attack is less likely to bounce if he (Luffy) isn't stretch at significant length. Like how bullets bounce back only after stretching Luffy's body about 5 feet or more.

Think of doffy's encounter more of an inflated balloon vs a deflated one. This could explain the reason why it was emphasized in the scenario.

With logias like gas, it's complicated, but still the same. You're right that gas dissipates around solids. But whether it does that or not is kinda relative, depending on the speed with which it's being hit. Think of Sanji's 'sky-walk' for example. He kicks the air so fast that it treats it like a solid. It's still more or less the same thing in real life. Like water for example also. It can be as watery as you know it. But it can also be as hard as a rock if one jumps out of an air plane with a faulty parachute, lol.

Haki interaction with logias gets even more complicated especially with Admiral Kizaru's fruit because he's neither solid, liquid, or gas. Light is none of those three, but still it can be hit with haki, lol.

 

[Admiral Teach]

I'd talk about this guy Vegapunk who theorized we're all dialectrical forces harmonizing, but that might get this entire site silenced by CP0. But suppose that, deep down, at the start, it's all the same! Zehahahahahah!

One little detail: Garp usually hits Luffy on the head. His head is known to not be quite as bouncing as the other parts of him, other than his cheeks. His skull is usually rather normal in its consistency.

 

[Fox666]

Haha... That's what I used to think. But then I realised it made haki look even more complicated. The reason I think this is because, if we go by that, then it means Luffy's very own haki 'on himself' would've prevented him from being rubber in the first place. Like he stops being rubber whenever he uses haki.
But since haki don't negate devil-fruit abilities unlike Blackbeard and seastone, then we have every reason to believe it's normal for them to retain their properties as well.

The situation with doffy still makes a bit of sense to me in that, Luffy's own haki stopped the pain he would've otherwise felt, if he hadn't defended with haki. But since haki don't stop him from being rubber, his body still behaved like one. More so with the fact he was inflated. Like really inflated. Unlike in the encounter with Garp where an attack is less likely to bounce if he (Luffy) isn't stretch at significant length. Like how bullets bounce back only after stretching Luffy's body about 5 feet or more.

Think of doffy's encounter more of an inflated balloon vs a deflated one. This could explain the reason why it was emphasized in the scenario.

With logias like gas, it's complicated, but still the same. You're right that gas dissipates around solids. But whether it does that or not is kinda relative, depending on the speed with which it's being hit. Think of Sanji's 'sky-walk' for example. He kicks the air so fast that it treats it like a solid. It's still more or less the same thing in real life. Like water for example also. It can be as watery as you know it. But it can also be as hard as a rock if one jumps out of an air plane with a faulty parachute, lol.

Haki interaction with logias gets even more complicated especially with Admiral Kizaru's fruit because he's neither solid, liquid, or gas. Light is none of those three, but still it can be hit with haki, lol.

Rayleigh explanation is that Haki allows someone to hit the real body of a Devil Fruit user. So that's why any Devil Fruit user is vulnerable to Haki, and it won't negate a user own ability.

 

[Hrathgrath]

Rayleigh explanation is that Haki allows someone to hit the real body of a Devil Fruit user. So that's why any Devil Fruit user is vulnerable to Haki, and it won't negate a user own ability.

I get that in theory, but if that was the case with Luffy, no amount of haki would make a difference in hitting him as it would still be hitting a rubber body. Which we know isn’t the case as several people have hit him specifically because they used haki.

 

[thedude]

I get that in theory, but if that was the case with Luffy, no amount of haki would make a difference in hitting him as it would still be hitting a rubber body. Which we know isn’t the case as several people have hit him specifically because they used haki.

Haki doesn't prevent Luffy from becoming rubber, but it can be used to hurt him. If Luffy were a logia, haki again wouldn't prevent him from using his powers, but it would allow his body to be hit/touched. Maybe just the part that gets hit is temporarily "normal" and can be hit, it doesn't effect the rest of the DF users body.

 

[Hrathgrath]

Haki doesn't prevent Luffy from becoming rubber, but it can be used to hurt him. If Luffy were a logia, haki again wouldn't prevent him from using his powers, but it would allow his body to be hit/touched. Maybe just the part that gets hit is temporarily "normal" and can be hit, it doesn't effect the rest of the DF users body.

Which wouldn’t explain how he bounced against an attack from Doflamingo. If the spot he hit were “normal” it wouldn’t have rebounded,I would think.

 

[Fox666]

Which wouldn’t explain how he bounced against an attack from Doflamingo. If the spot he hit were “normal” it wouldn’t have rebounded,I would think.

The easiest explanation is that Luffy's Haki (or the Haki covering that area in particular) was stronger than Doflamingo's Haki.

 

[kkck]

Haki doesn't nullify devil fruit abilities. Only sea stone and BB's devil fruit have such an effect as far as we know. Haki merely allows, in an unspecific manner, contact with the target's physical body which for some reason works against paramecia and logia. However the target does not stop being whatever it is a fruit makes him into when there is contact with haki. The series is going deeper into how exactly haki works, however awkwardly, so perhaps we will soon see explanations of how exactly haki hurts luffy. Given how things have played out recently I wouldn't be surprised if the haki variety that can hurt luffy is specifically the one sentoumaru and rayleigh used. Though I am not sure of why that type of haki would be better than other types against paramecia.

 

[thedude]

Which wouldn’t explain how he bounced against an attack from Doflamingo. If the spot he hit were “normal” it wouldn’t have rebounded,I would think.

I think an explanation for a lot of things is "you're putting more thought into it than the writer".

 

[M3J]

Has it been CONFIRMED that Garp used and uses haki to hurt Luffy? And I don't mean the readers' opinions or usually crappy/biased conclusions, but actual confirmation in the manga or databook or by Oda himself. So far, I highly doubt it, and the manga makes no mention of that as far as I recall, unless the Fist of Love is haki.

 

[Fox666]

I don't think it has ever been specified, but we seen a few times it being questioned how Garp could hurt Luffy to conclude he was using Haki.

 

[M3J]

That is not satisfactory

 

[hokageji]

Hasnt Luffy been injured with blunt attacks before haki was introduced? I think he was, so if thats the case Garp's punches dont have to be haki.

--- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2019, Original Post Date: May 17, 2019 ---

Why is he exclaiming from an attack void of Haki? This is an exclamation people make whenever in pain... just look through-out the series.

Can even go back as far as chapter 37. Captain Kuro kicks Luffy, he exclaims "ouch" and he's bleeding from a blunt kick void of Haki.

Even Franky hurt Luffy; now I'm sure people will rationalise that this is not an expression indicating pain because beliefs cannot be wrong, but okay.

Was able to find HP's post, and i think he makes a fair argument here.... Luffy does not get intangibility to blunt attacks through his DF, just an extended defensive power...

There is no need to use haki. If he did, Luffy will probably be dead.

 

[M3J]

It's a fact that Luffy isn't intangible to blunt attacks though. As you said, rubber gives him better defense, so the person would have to be quite strong to do damage to him. Sharp weapons are easy enough because they pierce. Garp likely is able to hurt Luffy because he's just that strong, and I'm sure the likes of Yonkou and high ranking officers in the Marines wouldn't need haki to deal some damage to Luffy unless he uses haki.

 

[hokageji]

Agreed. So long story short, Garp didnt necessarily use haki.

 

[Shasha23]

Has it been CONFIRMED that Garp used and uses haki to hurt Luffy? And I don't mean the readers' opinions or usually crappy/biased conclusions, but actual confirmation in the manga or databook or by Oda himself. So far, I highly doubt it, and the manga makes no mention of that as far as I recall, unless the Fist of Love is haki.

when Luffy talks to Ray-san about haki he specifically pictures Garp, because his fist of love is a haki punch!

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2019, Original Post Date: May 21, 2019 ---

Agreed. So long story short, Garp didnt necessarily use haki.

If he didnt then Luffy wouldnt have pictured him as someone who can use haki

 

[hokageji]

when Luffy talks to Ray-san about haki he specifically pictures Garp, because his fist of love is a haki punch!

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2019, Original Post Date: May 21, 2019 ---

If he didnt then Luffy wouldnt have pictured him as someone who can use haki

When?

One Piece Chapter 597 Page 15

Read One Piece Chapter 597 Page 15 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

Not in this chapter or this page... maybe elsewhere, can you share?

 

[M3J]

Likely because Luffy thought Garp could have been using haki?

 

[Eisenfaust]

If someone can use Future sight, he can use most like the basic CoO aswell.
If someone can use Advanced CoA, he can use most like the basic CoA(Invisible haki and Black Hardening) aswell.

But if someone can use Basic CoO, it doesn´t mean he can use Future sight aswell.
The same goes for Basic CoA, someone who can use basic CoA most like can´t use advanced CoA.

In the new world most mid tier fighters can use basic CoO and basic CoA, but they can´t use Future sight or Advanced CoA.
That is the different here, both Future sight and Gokou are advanced ability of the haki types. Hyo use Black hardening when he use Gokou, Luffy use hardening aswell when he try to learn Gokou. It is just the next lvl of hardening(CoA), they aren´t seperate ability. Black hardening is a PART of Gokou as CoO(predict moves) is a part of Future sight. To use Gokou he need strong black hardening and good control of CoA, or you can´t use it.
No Black hardening= No Gokou..
No CoO= No Future sight.