Laxus vs Gray


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Takuan

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For example laxus using freed runes isnt really ass pull, right?
I mean freed is in his group and so he can learn from freed easily enough. In the real world, that is perfectly reasonable
But in fairy tail, where literally no one has ever used someone else magic in a useful way in a fight (including jellal), its a serious ass pull.
Same way fighting without your senses is impossible, but so his beating one of the strongest when you have been suffering from cancer for a year.
I agree, Laxus using Freed's runes isn't an asspull. I mean, that's an asspull as in "it came out of nowhere by convenience". But it makes perfect sense since, as you say, Freed is part of the thunder tribe and is always willing to help Laxus (:teehee). Evergreen has been shown to be able to write runes by herself and modify Freed's runes. Levy has been able to rewrite Freed's runes during the battle of FT arc as well. That's not far-fetched at all that Laxus got that knowledge from Freed.
No one has ever used someone else magic? Most characters learn magic from someone else, Natsu uses Igneel's DS magic, Gray uses a magic learnt from Ul etc... I don't know what you're saying.
Including Jellal? Didn't Jellal use Mystogan's magic during GMG versus Jura?

Wahl isn't one of the strongest, he got one-shot the second Laxus got cured. A full power Laxus is above Wahl by a fair margin, and a dying Laxus couldn't beat Wahl. That makes sense. He wouldn't have won without Freed's runes, which as i was saying, isn't even much of an asspull.
 

SirSamuel016

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I'd say Laxus wins this mid diff. His attack power and durability is some of the best in terms of protagonists and he's also got better speed and magic power than Gray imo. Considering this, even though Gray has a PoF boost, I think Laxus would win this mid diff, but it could possibly stretch towards high-diff given the PoF on Gray's side.
 

Stormsfury

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There are many online forums for this manga. Laxus fans will be majority in most of them. That will influence everyone.
if you say something wrong about gray or laxus or jellal. There is more chances that some random person will come and defend jellal and laxus than gray. And jellal has lost alof of his shine for couple of arcs.

It really depends on how you classify bs.
For example laxus using freed runes isnt really ass pull, right?
I mean freed is in his group and so he can learn from freed easily enough. In the real world, that is perfectly reasonable
But in fairy tail, where literally no one has ever used someone else magic in a useful way in a fight (including jellal), its a serious ass pull.
Same way fighting without your senses is impossible, but so his beating one of the strongest when you have been suffering from cancer for a year.

As for me, i prefer equal treatment
Erza beat koyoka with some nonsense, she is around koyoka level.
Laxus beat wahl with alot of nonsense, he is around wahl level

Gray beat invel with nakama power up, which he is at the moment maintaining apparently and also upgrade (ds) version.

So this specific gray beat someone around laxus level mid diff.
Without nakama powerup, gray might lose to ultear, a possible ws tier
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I actually used to like laxus alot. But the way fans treat him, that is why dont like him that much. I still like him, not that much though.

one person can be correct. Majority are not always correct. Infact most of the time majority are wrong.
This site is not the only place to get influenced.

Laxus is not a durable monster. Atleast not of this extent. Ff natsu secret art took him out. Wahl couldnt take out laxus who was suffering from cancer.
There were alot of ass pulls in the fight, you just have open your eyes.
If you still cant see them, swap laxus with erza, you will see ass pulls all over the place:teehee
I don't believe you... why? Because you have failed to mention the glaring facts that Laxus was...

1. Already damaged by multiple attacks from other mages
2. Heavily exhausted from his multiple initial fights and casting fairy law
On top of all that he took a secret art to the face, that's what downed him....
There is also the glaring fact that this was hundreds of chapters ago and Laxus has vastly improved, he displayed his insane durability when he took an ameterasu formula and kept fighting, when he no-sold a wizard saint tier unison raid in the spin-off (which is canon) pre-timeskip.
It's easy to see that he is a durability monster, so stop trying to use a moment when he took a powerful attack after already being damaged and heavily exhausted as an example of him not being a durability monster.
 

Seven777

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Extreme favoritism
Laxus is one of the fan favorites. And laxus fans are most hardcore. I even once saw a guy apologizing for saying that erza rival might be laxus since mira lost her magic :blink
Gray and jellal fans are alot better. Not that bias.

Laxus beating wahl with cancer and immunity problem is no different than erza beating koyoka without her senses. But fans goes like laxus did that because he is aconologia tier and erza did that because of nakama ass pull? or something along those lines
You will never hear anyone say since erza without her senses beat etherious koyoka who was getting stronger every second so tartarus erza should atleast mid diff mard gear and maybe even defeat etherious mard gear.
But everyone will remind you that laxus defeated wahl when he had cancer and wahl was immune to lightening so he is super strong:notamused

The fact is enraged base gray broke through invel strongest defense with pure brute strength and then used invel ice to finish him.
And we are talking about this gray, who is stronger and, who just made a nuke with natsu/end thing by just punching.
This gray beat laxus mid diff at max
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Jellal didnt use half his power to become ws. Lol. Where did you get that. His thought projection wasnt even solid.
Also erza low diffed that jellal. So unless BOS erza is gmg jura tier, we have to go with full jellal became ws tier. Not half.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Gmg jura was glass cannon. He might not be able to tank minerva nuke. Endure sure, but probably not tank. Maybe defend against it.
Seems like you are a lot more bias against Laxus to me, especially considering Jellal is one of the communities favorites.

Wahl and Kyoka are different simply because Kyoka inflicted the handicaps on Erza herself, unlike Laxus who went into the battle starting with them, that alone makes it more impressive.

Enraged Gray beat Invel with ice immunity and by turning Invel's ice against him, Gray had a double advantage carrying him to victory, while Laxus had a double handicap working against his. Laxus as soon as his sickness was cured, one shot Wahl, he is undeniably a tier above spriggans, while Gray could only win because of the numerous advantages he had, he is on spriggan tier at most, probably closer in strength to Erza than Laxus

Erza and Kagura no sold Minerva's nuke, if two wizards both far weaker than Jura could do that, then Jura could just casually walk through the Minerva's attack and one shot her. Tanking several of Laxus attacks already puts him as a heavy tank rather than glass cannon.
 

Crimson Ice

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Jellal and Laxus have been portrayed as equals for a long time. With Jellal vs Jura and Laxus vs Jura being the prime example of this portrayal.
People think Jellal is trash because of the whole Neinhart thing. If you were to ask people about Laxus and Jellal pre Alverez they'd say they're on the same level.

As for the fight......Laxus wins med-high dif.
 

Doughboy

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People think Jellal is trash because of the whole Neinhart thing. If you were to ask people about Laxus and Jellal pre Alverez they'd say they're on the same level.
Yeah I don't get why people don't give Jellal the respect he deserves like the dude wasn't a Wizard Saint from when he was introduced. He dove into a full frontal blast from Neinhart to save Kagura, went unconscious and drown after being nailed under the ship's anchor. That's just not a good example of him having weak durability to me. I still consider him and Laxus equals if not Laxus a bit stronger
 

Laxus chan-yo

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I won't really comment on the battle itself, but I'll comment on the poll results. I think it's pretty well accepted that Laxus and Jellal are on the same level, yet Laxus is 8-0 against Gray and Jellal is 16-14. I'd like to know why?

https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/jellal-vs-gray.3005944/
Laxus is quite clearly stronger than Jellal and people are steadily realizing that. Pre-skip they were on the same level.
 

Brandish μ

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Moderator Notice:
We can draw the line here as the point where Jellal vs Laxus discussion has no place. As has been mentioned by other members, this thread is Laxus vs Gray. Please respect the general etiquette of this section to stay on topic, as well as the original poster who designed this battle.~ Brandish
 

sharkai

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I agree, Laxus using Freed's runes isn't an asspull. I mean, that's an asspull as in "it came out of nowhere by convenience". But it makes perfect sense since, as you say, Freed is part of the thunder tribe and is always willing to help Laxus (:teehee). Evergreen has been shown to be able to write runes by herself and modify Freed's runes. Levy has been able to rewrite Freed's runes during the battle of FT arc as well. That's not far-fetched at all that Laxus got that knowledge from Freed.
No one has ever used someone else magic? Most characters learn magic from someone else, Natsu uses Igneel's DS magic, Gray uses a magic learnt from Ul etc... I don't know what you're saying.
Including Jellal? Didn't Jellal use Mystogan's magic during GMG versus Jura?

Wahl isn't one of the strongest, he got one-shot the second Laxus got cured. A full power Laxus is above Wahl by a fair margin, and a dying Laxus couldn't beat Wahl. That makes sense. He wouldn't have won without Freed's runes, which as i was saying, isn't even much of an asspull.
No, wahl is the strongest. As in he is a springgan, thus pretty much top of the food chain of mages. Laxus got there while he suffered from cancer.
No, i said in a useful way. Erza has never combined meteor with souring armor to move faster. Natsu has never frozen the ground, so he can easily land a finishing hit.
And nor has jellal ever used dark magic, or elemental magic to stop his opponent movement, then finish him off with grand chariot. Yes, he does use other people magic, but never in a useful way, which would give him an advantage in a fight. Only to his hide his identity or something like that.
In last 500 chapters we have seen nothing like this, so yes, laxus using freed magic is an asspull, and it will remain so till we understand why natsu didnt use some other magic against that flame guy from elemental four and all the fights all the characters had after that and why they always never use someone else magic.
No one even knows how to teleport even now, even with aconollgia attacking them twice
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I don't believe you... why? Because you have failed to mention the glaring facts that Laxus was...

1. Already damaged by multiple attacks from other mages
2. Heavily exhausted from his multiple initial fights and casting fairy law
On top of all that he took a secret art to the face, that's what downed him....
There is also the glaring fact that this was hundreds of chapters ago and Laxus has vastly improved, he displayed his insane durability when he took an ameterasu formula and kept fighting, when he no-sold a wizard saint tier unison raid in the spin-off (which is canon) pre-timeskip.
It's easy to see that he is a durability monster, so stop trying to use a moment when he took a powerful attack after already being damaged and heavily exhausted as an example of him not being a durability monster.
You are right. I failed to mention that.
And failed to mention that
laxus was couple of tiers above natsu then
The springgan were said to be so strong, that natsu felt the need to use igneel power to fight one. They are all canonically as strong as strongest mage from ishigar
And laxus was suffering from cancer so badly that wahl was suprised that he was even alive.
And then laxus went out to defaet the springgan. who was immune to his magic. In near dead state, also who should know his weakness :cookiestare

I am sure you will talk about erza awesome durability after she fights irene, and how erza was always this strong :blush

And i want to hear your justification of lisana surviving ajeel (who was out for blood) this long :e3
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Seems like you are a lot more bias against Laxus to me, especially considering Jellal is one of the communities favorites.

Wahl and Kyoka are different simply because Kyoka inflicted the handicaps on Erza herself, unlike Laxus who went into the battle starting with them, that alone makes it more impressive.

Enraged Gray beat Invel with ice immunity and by turning Invel's ice against him, Gray had a double advantage carrying him to victory, while Laxus had a double handicap working against his. Laxus as soon as his sickness was cured, one shot Wahl, he is undeniably a tier above spriggans, while Gray could only win because of the numerous advantages he had, he is on spriggan tier at most, probably closer in strength to Erza than Laxus

Erza and Kagura no sold Minerva's nuke, if two wizards both far weaker than Jura could do that, then Jura could just casually walk through the Minerva's attack and one shot her. Tanking several of Laxus attacks already puts him as a heavy tank rather than glass cannon.
That is completely irrelevant
Mard cannot do what koyoka could so since erza can defeat etherious koyoka without her senses, than etherious mard gear is fair game for tartarus erza.
If you dont agree with this
And then think that laxus is alot stronger than wahl, then you are extremely biased

Gmg jura is glass cannon. Only thing he endured were laxus punches. Which even much weaker mages ( like ff natsu against ff laxus) can tank. So no. Especially since gmg jura was never stronger than gmg erza in the first place. And he himself was surprised by the Minerva nuke power. so he definitely is not tanking anything.

Gray broke invel strongest defense, with a non magical attack. he used invel ice afterwards.
I dont remember laxus showing this much strength ever, sorry.
 
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Seven777

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@sharkai

That is completely irrelevant
Mard cannot do what koyoka could so since erza can defeat etherious koyoka without her senses, than etherious mard gear is fair game for tartarus erza.
If you dont agree with this
And then think that laxus is alot stronger than wahl, then you are extremely biased
Nothing you just said makes sense, Kyoka is leagues weaker than Mard, that is why Erza cant beat him.
Mard doesnt need to steal people's sense, because Kyoka with her ability to steal senses is still far inferior to Mard who cannot.

Gmg jura is glass cannon. Only thing he endured were laxus punches. Which even much weaker mages ( like ff natsu against ff laxus) can tank. So no. Especially since gmg jura was never stronger than gmg erza in the first place. And he himself was surprised by the Minerva nuke power. so he definitely is not tanking anything.
Laxus is a top tier wizard, tanking punches from him is what puts Jura in the heavy tank class.
Jura was significantly stronger than Erza, to the point where even if she fought together with Mirajane she might not be able to beat him.
The fact that Jura was able to give Laxus a high diff fight alone puts him well beyond Erza.

Gray broke invel strongest defense, with a non magical attack. he used invel ice afterwards.
I dont remember laxus showing this much strength ever, sorry.
Used Invel's ice afterwards? When did he do that? He just go pick up a piece of the ice armor? No, he channeled Invel's ice to break the armor, molding it into Zeroth Destruction Fist, what Gray did hear isnt anymore impressive than what Gajeel did to Bradman, used his enemies magic against him. Sorry.
 
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sharkai

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Nothing you just said makes sense, Kyoka is leagues weaker than Mard, that is why Erza cant beat him.
Mard doesnt need to steal people's sense, because Kyoka with her ability to steal senses is still far inferior to Mard who cannot.


Laxus is a top tier wizard, tanking punches from him is what puts Jura in the heavy tank class.
Jura was significantly stronger than Erza, to the point where even if she fought together with Mirajane she might not be able to beat him.
The fact that Jura was able to give Laxus a high diff fight alone puts him well beyond Erza.


Used Invel's ice afterwards? When did he do that? He just go pick up a piece of the ice armor? No, he channeled Invel's ice to break the armor, molding it into Zeroth Destruction Fist, what Gray did hear isnt anymore impressive than what Gajeel did to Bradman, used his enemies magic against him. Sorry.
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Nope, i treat laxus, like i treat gray and like i treat erza.
Laxus beat wahl purely because of pof.
Erza beat koyoka purely because pof
Gray beat invel purely because pof

no she is not. With steal senses she is far above mard (she wouldnt even have to fight natsu, sting and rouge). Her states aren't pathetic. They are like half of mard gear. Since erza can beat koyoka without her senses, since mard is only twice as strong, without the two hax, so he is no way of winning against tartarus erza with senses
keep in mind i dont believe tartarus erza is stronger than mard. I am just making a similiar case
If laxus in near dead state can beat wahl. Its because of pof. Not because he is considerably then wahl
Same thing with erza and koyoka

Laxus is top tier mage along with erza. He was never stronger than her. That is why he is never defeated an opponent erza lost to
His punches can be tanked by natsu, who was considerably weaker than erza (erza could probably one shot natsu during ff arc)
So no his punches arent impressive. I am sorry
You believe that hype :twitch
I hope to god you are fair and also beleive that phantom s class were equal to fairy tail s class, and erza could one shot gildarts, just the way she one shot aria.
And also hope you believed it when markarov clearly said erza could take out laxus in ff arc

Gray was cracking up, that is when he broke invel armor. He molded the ice afterwards. as was clearly shown in the manga and mentioned. It was pure pof power
 
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Seven777

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Nope, i treat laxus, like i treat gray and like i treat erza.
Laxus beat wahl purely because of pof.
Erza beat koyoka purely because pof
Gray beat invel purely because pof
Uhuh, thats totally why you are ripping on Laxus and not Erza or Gray.

no she is not. With steal senses she is far above mard (she wouldnt even have to fight natsu, sting and rouge). Her states aren't pathetic. They are like half of mard gear. Since erza can beat koyoka without her senses, since mard is only twice as strong, without the two hax, so he is no way of winning against tartarus erza with senses
keep in mind i dont believe tartarus erza is stronger than mard. I am just making a similiar case
If laxus in near dead state can beat wahl. Its because of pof. Not because he is considerably then wahl
Same thing with erza and koyoka
So Kyoka being above Mard is your argument? hrm... well...cant say i've seen anyone make that argument before.... I think we'll uh... just have to agree to disagree on that point.... yeah....

Laxus is top tier mage along with erza. He was never stronger than her. That is why he is never defeated an opponent erza lost to
His punches can be tanked by natsu, who was considerably weaker than erza (erza could probably one shot natsu during ff arc)
So no his punches arent impressive. I am sorry
Erza could have one shot Natsu? Ah, i see, so you are bias towards Erza as well as against Laxus.
Laxus was at least a tier above Erza, likely several, that is why at the beginning of the GMG arc Gray acknowledged that other than monster class wizard's like Laxus and Gildarts, everyone else needed some training, sorry buddy, Erza wasnt included in the monster class.
You believe that hype :twitch
Sure, why not? Better than just guessing that Erza is his level like you seem to be doing.
I hope to god you are fair and also beleive that phantom s class were equal to fairy tail s class, and erza could one shot gildarts, just the way she one shot aria.
Phantom S class hype was proven wrong, Laxus alone made Gajeel tremble at the thought of what the Phantom battle would have been like if he was present, it would be bias of me to believe that hype, you hoping that im bias like you?
And also hope you believed it when markarov clearly said erza could take out laxus in ff arc
Hahaha, i believe that Erza "might just stand a chance" as Makarov put it, sure, just like i believe that if Natsu got serious he as Makarov said, "might" be able to pull it off, so... yeah, Erza had maybe a slightly better chance than Natsu had, if she has Gajeel on her side then sure i'll give her the win, but only if Laxus has to first have a fight with Mystogan and later pointlessly use Fairy Law, like he did against Natsu

Gray was cracking up, that is when he broke invel armor. He molded the ice afterwards. as was clearly shown in the manga and mentioned. It was pure pof power
Uhuh, using Invel's ice. PoF sure, using a strategy he established in Tartaros.
 
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sharkai

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Uhuh, thats totally why you are ripping on Laxus and not Erza or Gray.


So Kyoka being above Mard is your argument? hrm... well...cant say i've seen anyone make that argument before.... I think we'll uh... just have to agree to disagree on that point.... yeah....


Erza could have one shot Natsu? Ah, i see, so you are bias towards Erza as well as against Laxus.
Laxus was at least a tier above Erza, likely several, that is why at the beginning of the GMG arc Gray acknowledged that other than monster class wizard's like Laxus and Gildarts, everyone else needed some training, sorry buddy, Erza wasnt included in the monster class.

Sure, why not? Better than just guessing that Erza is his level like you seem to be doing.

Phantom S class hype was proven wrong, Laxus alone made Gajeel tremble at the thought of what the Phantom battle would have been like if he was present, it would be bias of me to believe that hype, you hoping that im bias like you?

Hahaha, i believe that Erza "might just stand a chance" as Makarov put it, sure, just like i believe that if Natsu got serious he as Makarov said, "might" be able to pull it off, so... yeah, Erza had maybe a slightly better chance than Natsu had, if she has Gajeel on her side then sure i'll give her the win.

Uhuh, using Invel's ice. PoF sure, using a strategy he established in Tartaros.
No i said everything is ass pull
People just get angry when i say that their favorite just did an ass pull

Koyoka stats are half of mard gear. Hax isnt exactly staright forward numbers. Erza can beat anyone of koyoka stats (half mard stats without senses). So what can she do with senses?

Erza one shotted aria, while already being wrecked. While natsu got his ass handed to him by blimded aria. So erza one shotting that natsu is completely fair prediction

Laxus was never a tier above erza, where did you get that?
Erza proved to be a tier above natsu by her performance against jupiter (would have killed natsu, gray and everyone present in the guild), aria, racer cobra (racer was enough to handle natsu and gray, while three os members had to gang up on erza) and azuma (lily and gajeel) and alot of portrayal
Show me that for laxus being a tier above erza, please.
O that monster group. You mean in gmg where laxus was said to be able to complete in the tournament without any training, while erza did compete in the tournament without any training and did not use a powerup till the very end :derp

Yep with gajeel laxus would have lost low diff. Since mishma showed clearly that laxus causal was stalemated by a causal erza
All s class were capable of handling two non s class mages as shown in tenrou arc, and yes s class mages still had to hold back

Yes elemental four hype was proven wrong, just like jura hype was proven wrong when he lost to laxus alone.

Gray used invel ice afterwards as mentioned in the manga, i am sorry i am not gonna believe you over the actual manga. Unless you can show me gray using invel ice to break invel armor, i am gonna go with what shown in the manga, even if it means laxus doesnt get to keep his fan made hype.
 
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Seven777

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No i said everything is ass pull
People just get angry when i say that their favorite just did an ass pull
You can ask gray fans about that :teehee

Koyoka stats are half of mard gear. Hax isnt exactly staright forward numbers. Erza can beat anyone of koyoka stats (half mard stats without senses). So what can she do with senses?

Erza one shotted aria, while already being wrecked. While natsu got his ass handed to him by blimded aria. So erza one shotting that natsu is completely fair prediction

Laxus was never a tier above erza, where did you get that?
Erza proved to be a tier above natsu by her performance against jupiter (would have killed natsu, gray and everyone present in the guild), aria, racer cobra (racer was enough to handle natsu and gray, while three os members had to gang up on erza) and azuma (lily and gajeel) and alot of portrayal
Show me that for laxus being a tier above erza, please.
O that monster group. You mean in gmg where laxus was said to be able to complete in the tournament without any training, while erza did compete in the tournament without any training and did not use a powerup till the very end :derp

Yep with gajeel laxus would have lost low diff. Since mishma showed clearly that laxus causal was stalemated by a causal erza
All s class were capable of handling two non s class mages as shown in tenrou arc, and yes s class mages still had to hold back

Yes elemental four hype was proven wrong, just like jura hype was proven wrong when he lost to laxus alone.

Gray used invel ice afterwards as mentioned in the manga, i am sorry i am not gonna believe you over the actual manga. Unless you can show me gray using invel ice to break invel armor, i am gonna go with what shown in the manga, even if it means laxus doesnt get to keep his fan made hype.
Uhuh, and is Zeroth Destruction Fist an asspull?

Mard Geer's position as head of Tartaros and final boss of the arc says all that needs to be said about the difference between him and Kyoka.

No, because Natsu defeated Gajeel who is stronger than Aria, one shotting is completely out of the question.

The moment Gray categorized Laxus and Gildarts separately from everyone else.
She still used the power-up, and Laxus beat an entire team on his own, well beyond anyone's expectations, he also beat the guy everyone else considered unbeatable, so Laxus training put him from an excellent guy to have on your team, to a guy so powerful that its unfair even to have him compete, thats what Laxus' training yielded.

With Gajeel Laxus would have lost high diff, about as high as with Natsu, or at least not noticeably lower.
Mashima clearly showed angry Erza getting laughed off by Laxus, sure
Juvia & Lisana<<<Natsu & Gajeel.
Jura's hype about being the strongest wizard there was proven wrong, Jura's hype of beating Erza and Mira is still solid.

Haha, except you are the one interpreting the manga how you like, how 'bout you show me where it say Gray only utilized Invel's Ice afterwards or show me where it says Gray used physical power alone.
 
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Uhuh, and is Zeroth Destruction Fist an asspull?

Mard Geer's position as head of Tartaros and final boss of the arc says all that needs to be said about the difference between him and Kyoka.

No, because Natsu defeated Gajeel who is stronger than Aria, one shotting is completely out of the question.

The moment Gray categorized Laxus and Gildarts separately from everyone else.
She still used the power-up, and Laxus beat an entire team on his own, well beyond anyone's expectations, he also beat the guy everyone else considered unbeatable, so Laxus training put him from an excellent guy to have on your team, to a guy so powerful that its unfair even to have him compete, thats what Laxus' training yielded.

With Gajeel Laxus would have lost high diff, about as high as with Natsu, or at least not noticeably lower.
Mashima clearly showed angry Erza getting laughed off by Laxus, sure
Juvia & Lisana<<<Natsu & Gajeel.
Jura's hype about being the strongest wizard there was proven wrong, Jura's hype of beating Erza and Mira is still solid.

Haha, except you are the one interpreting the manga how you like, how 'bout you show me where it say Gray only utilized Invel's Ice afterwards or show me where it says Gray used physical power alone.
The powerup gray got after after juvia death is pof.

The difference was stated to be twice as strong. Hax is plot based. Mest can easily fuk up brandish but brandish cant do crap to enhanced nienhart.

How the hell is gajeel stronger than aria.
Is statement above feats now. Is gmg sting stronger than aconologia?
Because if i remember clearly, blinded aria, which also magically holding back was no diffing natsu. And i dont remember gajeel one shotting natsu. So how the hell is gejeel is stronger than full powered aria.
And wrecked erza one shotted non blinded aria with a mid tier attack.
But apparently you think she is equal natsu lol.
I mean erza one shotted aria, needed three os memeber to take out, while gray and natsu and three other fodders got blitz by racer alone. And huge amount portrayal, but no erza is pretty much around natsu level. One guy said something. And suddenly their is a tier gap beteen erza ans laxus lol just lol
how bias can one get.

The first task in s class exams wasnt lissana + juvia vs s class mage. It was s class contestant with non s class mage helping fighting off an s class mage while the s class mage was supposed to hold back
How is jura hype of beating erza and mira solid. Has laxus ever beaten erza and mira together. Hell he never even beatun them alone. laxus was never said to be stronger than erza let alone far stronger.

No mishma showed us laxus casually blocking erza physical attack and erza easily blocking by laxus point blank magical attack

Your entire argument is based on gray saying this right?
And laxus after training taking a fodder guild who has no hype and has best feat of needed help to take out lucy. Right?
I dont even know how that compares to pandemonium where s class monster alone was supposed to give jura difficulty, erza took that monster out alone with 99 other monster without SO. Yes, erza without training did that, erza used her powerup only at the end. While laxus used it through out.
And finally what gray once said. And of course people had brushed it under the carpet and forgetten about it
Look up chapter 89 page 5, where gray clearly says
"i cant imagine anyone actually beating erza if she goes all out"
This is the guy who knew markarov, gildarts, laxus, who thought natsu will get himself killed if he fought erza. This is guy we have to agree to. Or some other person who never seen jura use magic and hasnt seen erza fight for a long time. Just lol.

But i suppose all that things wont matter to you, like a bias a person, you will twist everything to meet your preconceived notion or whatever.

Look up chapter 500 page page 15 gray breaks of invel armor with pure strength (page 14 gray cracking up). Look up next page pg 16, as he starts molding, ice starts forming on his arm and you can actually see molding and invel also mentions it.

thanks for proving how bias you are
I mean you need only one or two statements to see erza is tier below laxus
But two or three feats along with dozen of hype doesnt apparently make erza even little bit stronger than natsu lol:super
 

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Don't see why this battle cannot be a tie. There doesn't have to be a loser or winner in every battle.

I am a Gray fan no doubt, but I'm not biased. I also have enough common sense to know that Laxus is no pushover either. If we put character bias aside, I think it is pretty accurate to say Gray and Laxus are on par in terms of feats.

First of all, the OP of this thread stated that Gray is bloodlusted... so you can call it PoF or whatever you like, but the fact is that you have to consider Gray in the form in which he fought Invel.

Laxus went all out against Wahl, that's for sure. Although he was double-handicapped, he did have some Nakama asspull with Red Lightning. Considering this, if you look at the stats, Laxus is definitely stronger than Wahl.

Gray defeated Invel in his base form. He fought on par with Demonized Natsu. It's safe to say he is also definitely stronger than Wahl.

I'm also taking into account that Laxus was at a severe disadvantage, so I'll be fair and exaggerate his power to a caliber below Gildartz.

At the same time, Gray has never went full DeS either against Invel or Natsu (black marks with spiked up hair) and did not ever unleash his trump card. Given these circumstances, I can place him a caliber below Gildartz.

Once again, Gray and Laxus are very similar in stats. If you look at it this way, there is no reason why they should not be tied.

Therefore, until further evidence, I stand by Gray and Laxus being tied.

I consider both wizards to be top-class mages in FT (along with Natsu and Gildartz, but Gildartz is currently the strongest out of the 4 of them).
 
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The powerup gray got after after juvia death is pof.

The difference was stated to be twice as strong. Hax is plot based. Mest can easily fuk up brandish but brandish cant do crap to enhanced nienhart.

How the hell is gajeel stronger than aria.
Is statement above feats now. Is gmg sting stronger than aconologia?
Because if i remember clearly, blinded aria, which also magically holding back was no diffing natsu. And i dont remember gajeel one shotting natsu. So how the hell is gejeel is stronger than full powered aria.
And wrecked erza one shotted non blinded aria with a mid tier attack.
But apparently you think she is equal natsu lol.
I mean erza one shotted aria, needed three os memeber to take out, while gray and natsu and three other fodders got blitz by racer alone. And huge amount portrayal, but no erza is pretty much around natsu level. One guy said something. And suddenly their is a tier gap beteen erza ans laxus lol just lol
how bias can one get.

The first task in s class exams wasnt lissana + juvia vs s class mage. It was s class contestant with non s class mage helping fighting off an s class mage while the s class mage was supposed to hold back
How is jura hype of beating erza and mira solid. Has laxus ever beaten erza and mira together. Hell he never even beatun them alone. laxus was never said to be stronger than erza let alone far stronger.

No mishma showed us laxus casually blocking erza physical attack and erza easily blocking by laxus point blank magical attack

Your entire argument is based on gray saying this right?
And laxus after training taking a fodder guild who has no hype and has best feat of needed help to take out lucy. Right?
I dont even know how that compares to pandemonium where s class monster alone was supposed to give jura difficulty, erza took that monster out alone with 99 other monster without SO. Yes, erza without training did that, erza used her powerup only at the end. While laxus used it through out.
And finally what gray once said. And of course people had brushed it under the carpet and forgetten about it
Look up chapter 89 page 5, where gray clearly says
"i cant imagine anyone actually beating erza if she goes all out"
This is the guy who knew markarov, gildarts, laxus, who thought natsu will get himself killed if he fought erza. This is guy we have to agree to. Or some other person who never seen jura use magic and hasnt seen erza fight for a long time. Just lol.

But i suppose all that things wont matter to you, like a bias a person, you will twist everything to meet your preconceived notion or whatever.

Look up chapter 500 page page 15 gray breaks of invel armor with pure strength (page 14 gray cracking up). Look up next page pg 16, as he starts molding, ice starts forming on his arm and you can actually see molding and invel also mentions it.

thanks for proving how bias you are
I mean you need only one or two statements to see erza is tier below laxus
But two or three feats along with dozen of hype doesnt apparently make erza even little bit stronger than natsu lol:super
Uhuh, and i totally didnt see you say on another thread that Erza is far above Natsu and Gray?

And twice as strong somehow means Kyoka>Mard Geer? I suppose you are also gonna tell me Mest>Brandish. I dont see how this is even a debate, Mard Geer is leagues ahead of Kyoka, but since you want to get into it with those trading cards(far from a statement of their strength) then i guess i'll explain through them why Erza beating Kyoka doesnt mean she can beat Mard.
First off, you are wrong, Mard isnt twice as strong as Kyoka, his HP is almost 4 times hers, that means Erza would have to be capable of beating Kyoka 4 times in a row in order to have a chance against Mard, now this alone is already impossible considering she collapsed in fatigue immediately after beating Kyoka, but i'll take it a few steps further anyway.
Mard's defense is also over double Kyoka's, meaning Erza's attacks willl only have half the effect on Mard Geer that they had on Kyoka, which raises the amount of times Erza would have to beat Kyoka to 8 times in a row.
Mard Geer is also twice as fast and twice as intelligent as Kyoka, effectively meaning only half the attacks Erza landed on Kyoka would have landed on Mard Geer, raising again the amount of Kyoka's Erza would have to defeat to be on par with Mard to 16.
Now let us move onto offense, Mard has over double the attack power, curse power and speed, meaning that Mard would hit Erza harder and more often, which results in Erza reaching the point of exhaustion she did after her fight with Kyoka(couldnt even land the killing blow herself), at minimum twice as fast as when she fought Kyoka, which of course means Erza could at most do half a Kyoka's worth of damage to Mard Geer before collapsing, and since Mard Geer is already worth minimum 16 Kyoka's endurance-wise, Erza can at most take 1/32 of Mard Geer's health, now we can add the advantage of not being blind and deaf, maybe increase that number to 1/30 of Mard's health Erza can take if we want to be extremely generous(especially since we have seen that an Erza who wasnt blind and deaf couldnt perform any better than one who was).
So there you have it, Erza can take less than %5 of Mard Geer's health, Yaaay!!! Good effort Erza!! You tried your best.

How the hell is Gajeel not stronger than Aria? He was the second in command after Jose, and the final boss that the "brats" had to deal with, plus both Erza and Jose said Gajeel was Phantom's strongest S class wizard, sooo thats how it is, Gajeel is number 1(in Phantom) thats canon.
Was GMG Sting stated to be above Acnologia?
Well first off this is early Fairy Tail where wind>fire, secondly Natsu wasnt angry against Aria, and still had untapped power he wasnt using, Erza gave Natsu an inspiring speech about releasing it and him being the one to surpass her, Natsu's strength went up after that.
Not nearly as bias as you seem to have gotten, mister im gonna try and hype Erza by saying Mard<Kyoka lol.

Uhuh, and the strongest team was Gray and Loke, Gray+Loke<<Gajeel+Natsu, Natsu also charged at Erza with Happy alone.
It is solid because it wasnt disproved, Jura's power didnt decrease by losing to Laxus, Laxus simply surpassed his hype, doesnt remove all other statements of Jura's power, do i really need to explain that?

Not my entire argument, but Gray's statement is simpler to argue so i generally like to go with that, yeah.
Raven Tail was only fodder because they went up against Laxus, they've had hype since early Fairy Tail.
An off panel high diff battle with 99 monsters and 1 monster said to give a wizard saint a high diff battle, Erza was already wz tier pre skip.
Laxus used his training? He low diffed the lot of them, not really a great example.
Gray's statement about Erza was before Laxus, Gildarts and Mystogan became relevant in the manga and displayed their power, is also proven wrong by the fact that Erza couldnt beat Jose, a guy Gray knew, Gray's statement about Laxus and Gildarts is also more recent.

Nothing suggests that wasnt magic breaking it apart, doesnt make sense for his fist that was already stuck to Invel's arm just "pushed" Invel arm piece off.
Invel explained it afterwards sure, what was he supposed to do? Explain it before Gray broke the armor?

Uhuh, never mind the fact that Laxus has been portrayed thoughout the series as well above Erza, never mind the fact that Laxus did better against Hades than Erza and co combined, never mind the fact that the guy Erza couldnt beat alone(Azir) was hyped to be killed by Laxus with just one casual attack, never mind the fact that Laxus was able to beat a spriggan while handicapped twice over, while Erza wasnt able to beat one alone, never mind the fact that frickin' Mashima himself acknowledged that Laxus was so powerful that it is difficult to write him into the story because he settles things immediately, so sure, go around calling everyone bias, why dont you just go on making up feats for Erza, like you did with Mard and Kyoka lol, i'll stick to what the manga says and what the bloody author says
 
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Uhuh, and i totally didnt see you say on another thread that Erza is far above Natsu and Gray?

And twice as strong somehow means Kyoka>Mard Geer? I suppose you are also gonna tell me Mest>Brandish. I dont see how this is even a debate, Mard Geer is leagues ahead of Kyoka, but since you want to get into it with those trading cards(far from a statement of their strength) then i guess i'll explain through them why Erza beating Kyoka doesnt mean she can beat Mard.
First off, you are wrong, Mard isnt twice as strong as Kyoka, his HP is almost 4 times hers, that means Erza would have to be capable of beating Kyoka 4 times in a row in order to have a chance against Mard, now this alone is already impossible considering she collapsed in fatigue immediately after beating Kyoka, but i'll take it a few steps further anyway.
Mard's defense is also over double Kyoka's, meaning Erza's attacks willl only have half the effect on Mard Geer that they had on Kyoka, which raises the amount of times Erza would have to beat Kyoka to 8 times in a row.
Mard Geer is also twice as fast and twice as intelligent as Kyoka, effectively meaning only half the attacks Erza landed on Kyoka would have landed on Mard Geer, raising again the amount of Kyoka's Erza would have to defeat to be on par with Mard to 16.
Now let us move onto offense, Mard has over double the attack power, curse power and speed, meaning that Mard would hit Erza harder and more often, which results in Erza reaching the point of exhaustion she did after her fight with Kyoka(couldnt even land the killing blow herself), at minimum twice as fast as when she fought Kyoka, which of course means Erza could at most do half a Kyoka's worth of damage to Mard Geer before collapsing, and since Mard Geer is already worth minimum 16 Kyoka's endurance-wise, Erza can at most take 1/32 of Mard Geer's health, now we can add the advantage of not being blind and deaf, maybe increase that number to 1/30 of Mard's health Erza can take if we want to be extremely generous(especially since we have seen that an Erza who wasnt blind and deaf couldnt perform any better than one who was).
So there you have it, Erza can take less than %5 of Mard Geer's health, Yaaay!!! Good effort Erza!! You tried your best.

How the hell is Gajeel not stronger than Aria? He was the second in command after Jose, and the final boss that the "brats" had to deal with, plus both Erza and Jose said Gajeel was Phantom's strongest S class wizard, sooo thats how it is, Gajeel is number 1(in Phantom) thats canon.
Was GMG Sting stated to be above Acnologia?
Well first off this is early Fairy Tail where wind>fire, secondly Natsu wasnt angry against Aria, and still had untapped power he wasnt using, Erza gave Natsu an inspiring speech about releasing it and him being the one to surpass her, Natsu's strength went up after that.
Not nearly as bias as you seem to have gotten, mister im gonna try and hype Erza by saying Mard<Kyoka lol.

Uhuh, and the strongest team was Gray and Loke, Gray+Loke<<Gajeel+Natsu, Natsu also charged at Erza with Happy alone.
It is solid because it wasnt disproved, Jura's power didnt decrease by losing to Laxus, Laxus simply surpassed his hype, doesnt remove all other statements of Jura's power, do i really need to explain that?

Not my entire argument, but Gray's statement is simpler to argue so i generally like to go with that, yeah.
Raven Tail was only fodder because they went up against Laxus, they've had hype since early Fairy Tail.
An off panel high diff battle with 99 monsters and 1 monster said to give a wizard saint a high diff battle, Erza was already wz tier pre skip.
Laxus used his training? He low diffed the lot of them, not really a great example.
Gray's statement about Erza was before Laxus, Gildarts and Mystogan became relevant in the manga and displayed their power, is also proven wrong by the fact that Erza couldnt beat Jose, a guy Gray knew, Gray's statement about Laxus and Gildarts is also more recent.

Nothing suggests that wasnt magic breaking it apart, doesnt make sense for his fist that was already stuck to Invel's arm just "pushed" Invel arm piece off.
Invel explained it afterwards sure, what was he supposed to do? Explain it before Gray broke the armor?

Uhuh, never mind the fact that Laxus has been portrayed thoughout the series as well above Erza, never mind the fact that Laxus did better against Hades than Erza and co combined, never mind the fact that the guy Erza couldnt beat alone(Azir) was hyped to be killed by Laxus with just one casual attack, never mind the fact that Laxus was able to beat a spriggan while handicapped twice over, while Erza wasnt able to beat one alone, never mind the fact that frickin' Mashima himself acknowledged that Laxus was so powerful that it is difficult to write him into the story because he settles things immediately, so sure, go around calling everyone bias, why dont you just go on making up feats for Erza, like you did with Mard and Kyoka lol, i'll stick to what the manga says and what the bloody author says
I never said that unless i was making a point like with koyoka and mard or i was joking.
But yeah, erza with no pof is far above gray with no pof. (ur fight)
However pof gray is clearly stronger than erza with no poof

You know about bias people, they have certain qualities like using selective things (hype or feats) and ignore things that doesnt line up with their ideas
You show that very nicely :amuse
Like mard having that much more mp
And forgot to mention erza was drugged, tortured, fought koyoka for a while, defeated demon Minerva, and fought and beat etherious koyoka who had taken saliah powers and was also enhancing herself. So mp wise she is already near
Attack power. Erza knocked out koyoka with punch. Purgatory should be enough for mard
Durability and endurance, far above sting and rouge. And koyoka enhanced her pain senses. So again mard is a fair game
Erza couldn't see koyoka and yet still fought on. Mard being faster would do nothing to erza
I just love erza ass pulls dont you :hearts

Lol erza also said elemental four were equal to fairy tail s class, we know how that turned. Dont you get the idea of credible source. And of course what were you expecting jose to say, i mean what was he supposed to say after knowing gajeel was the only one standing. By feats blinded aria stomped natsu. Aria is stronger still. Gajeel wasnt that above natsu. And erza one shotted aria with a mid tier attack when she was wrecked. So how much natsu is improving by just being angry
Why cant erza one shot him with a slightly stronger attack when she is hundred present?
Yes,sting made fun of natsu for aconologia event in gmg arc.
So i will believe gajeel hype over aria feats after you belive sting hype over aconologia feat.

So you think s class trail will have to be changed just because one team up,just lol

Yes it does, just like elemental four lost their hype, like nine demon gates lost their hype and as we see springgan losing their hype. Same goes for jura. Especially since laxus hasn't ever proven himself to be above erza in the first place. SO erza didnt even make an appearance and kagura was said to be stronger than erza when people were watching the fight. So yeah that hype is completely wrong

wind > fire :teehee
Yep that is why silver is a wind demon slayer, o wait

Raven tail were never hyped,they were more like background noise
Gray statements are wrong thats the fact. Both of them.
I like how you ignored the jupiter cannon in jose vs erza thing :derp

There is no portrayal of laxus above erza that just fans dreams.
Laxus did better than erza and co because they were wrecked but again skip over important information you have to do that i understand
Jura < kagura + minerva.
Laxus was so strong he cant be written in fight easily. Lol. i guess we know now start of series laxus >>>>>>> aconologia (this even more funny especially with out for blood ajeel hasnt been able to put down lissana yet:XD)
Ajeel laughed it off and then proceed to attack ishigar on a flying ship
But thats no problem. Natsu fist is pretty high up there, can one shot a springgan too. But the end mode thing even more stronger and along with stronger gray. Both their fist should be there if not above laxus attacks
Too bad latest spoiler doesnt follow your laxus protayal of being so above erza :zomg
But i am sure you will square the circles Somehow:)

I never said koyoka > mard
I was making a point that if laxus ass pull is legimate strength feat then so was erza ass pull in tartarus

Look we already know you are seriously biased so lets ignore that talk about important stuffs
1) you said jura wasnt a glass canon, but all he tanked was laxus punches. The same punches were tanked pre ts by non blood lusted natsu face in ff arc
2) we saw magic happening afterwards not before, its only your interpretation that it happened before yet there is no indication of that. We saw magic actually happening afterwards. The explanation was given afterwards. So i am gonna go with that. Mishma could easily have shown the molding before with an explanation mark on invel
Since this is not that gray, he is even more blood lusted and ds form so gray mid diffs laxus
 
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Seven777

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I never said that unless i was making a point like with koyoka and mard or i was joking.
But yeah, erza with no pof is far above gray with no pof. (ur fight)
However pof gray is clearly stronger than erza with no poof

You know about bias people, they have certain qualities like using selective things (hype or feats) and ignore things that doesnt line up with their ideas
You show that very nicely :amuse
Like mard having that much more mp
And forgot to mention erza was drugged, tortured, fought koyoka for a while, defeated demon Minerva, and fought and beat etherious koyoka who had taken saliah powers and was also enhancing herself. So mp wise she is already near
Attack power. Erza knocked out koyoka with punch. Purgatory should be enough for mard
Durability and endurance, far above sting and rouge. And koyoka enhanced her pain senses. So again mard is a fair game
Erza couldn't see koyoka and yet still fought on. Mard being faster would do nothing to erza
I just love erza ass pulls dont you :hearts

Lol erza also said elemental four were equal to fairy tail s class, we know how that turned. Dont you get the idea of credible source. And of course what were you expecting jose to say, i mean what was he supposed to say after knowing gajeel was the only one standing. By feats blinded aria stomped natsu. Aria is stronger still. Gajeel wasnt that above natsu. And erza one shotted aria with a mid tier attack when she was wrecked. So how much natsu is improving by just being angry
Why cant erza one shot him with a slightly stronger attack when she is hundred present?
Yes,sting made fun natsu for aconologia event in gmg arc.
So i will believe gajeel hype over aria feats after you belive sting hype over aconologia feat.

So you think s class trail will have to be changed just because one team up,just lol

Yes it does, just like elemental four lost their hype, like nine demon gates lost their hype and as we see springgan losing their hype. Same goes for jura. Especially since laxus hasn't ever proven himself to be above erza in the first place. SO erza didnt even make an appearance and kagura was said to be stronger than erza when people were watching the fight. So yeah that hype is completely wrong

wind > fire :teehee
Yep that is why silver is a wind demon slayer, o wait

Raven tail were never hyped,they were more like background noise
Gray statements are wrong thats the fact. Both of them.
I like how you ignored the jupiter cannon in jose vs erza thing :derp

There is no portrayal of laxus above erza that just fans dreams.
Laxus did better than erza and co because they were wrecked but again skip over important information you have to do that i understand
Jura < kagura + minerva.
Laxus was so strong he cant be written in fight easily. Lol. i guess we know now start of series laxus >>>>>>> aconologia
Ajeel laughed it off and then proceed to attack ishigar on a flying ship
But thats no problem. Natsu fist is pretty high up there, can one shot a springgan too. But the end mode thing even more stronger and along with stronger gray. Both their fist should be there if not above laxus attacks
Too bad latest spoiler doesnt follow your laxus protayal of being so above erza :zomg
But i am sure you will square the circles Somehow:)

I never said koyoka > mard
I was making a point that if laxus ass pull is legimate strength feat then so was erza ass pull in tartarus

Look we already know you are seriously biased so lets ignore that talk about important stuffs
1) you said jura wasnt a glass canon, but all he tanked was laxus punches. The same punches were tanked pre ts by non blood lusted natsu face in ff arc
2) we saw magic happening afterwards not before, its only your interpretation that it happened before yet there is no indication of that. We saw magic actually happening afterwards. The explanation was given afterwards. So i am gonna go with that
Since this is not that gray, he is even more blood lusted and df form so gray mid diffs laxus
And by PoF Gray beng stronger, do you mean that as soon as Gray loses that PoF boost and mellows out he goes back to being far below Erza? Or do you think he can achieve that level of power whenever he wants?

In other words i've debunked all your points and now you are complaining about it.
I didnt say Mard had much more MP, i said Mard had much more HP, which he does, several times more.
Everything else i already explained last comment, if Erza wants to beat Mard she would have to beat Kyoka 30 times in a row without taking a break, considering she crumpled to the ground after doing it just once i think it is safe to say that even doing it twice is impossible.
Erza didnt do any better against Kyoka with her sight and hearing intact, so it makes no difference in a fight with Mard.
Meh, her ass pulls are usually understandable imo, though i'll admit being able to fight while deaf and blind doesnt really make sense.

Sorry pal, Jose said it clear as day, Gajeel was Phantoms strongest member, your opinion on the matter is not relevant
You can argue it all you want, but the words in this image are not going to change.
As for why blinded Aria was winning, that is easily explained, Natsu had untapped potential that he wasnt using on Aria, Erza was able to help him unleash it for Gajeel.
Simple as that.

No, but i believe that if the S class trial had Natsu team with Gajeel Erza gets low-mid diffed.

No, Jura's hype stands neither Erza nor Mira proved themselves capable of defeating a wizard of that caliber, Laxus beating him simply means Laxus takes his place as strongest wizard competing, with Jura demoted to second, nothing else.
Gray already made clear how much stronger Laxus was than Erza when he separated him and Gildarts in the "monster" class.

Why would i include Jupiter?

Laxus has not only been portrayed above Erza, he has been portrayed as significantly above Erza, and in the current arc he has reached the point where one shotting her isnt out of the question.
Yep, did better than Erza and co, undeniable proof that Laxus is stronger than Erza, she herself was even astonished at his strength.
Sure, Gray was injured, however Erza, Natsu, Lucy and Wendy all had time to recover, Lucy even stated herself that she had regained almost all her magical energy, which means it isnt out of the question that Laxus could solo a heakthy Erza, Natsu, Lucy and Wendy all at the same time.
Besides, no matter how you slice it 5 injured wizards including injured Erza, is still better than a healthy Erza, not only that but Hades was fighting harder against Laxus than he was against Erza and co, so yeah.

Dont blame me, Mashima was the one who said it. Your arguments cant disprove what the author himself claimed. Laxus>Erza was made canon the moment he said it.

Sure with an army and another spriggan joining joining his campaign, Azir also displayed sheer terror as the nuke was falling on him, plus August word>Azir's words, he also felt the need to put a barrier around Azir. More undeniable proof Laxus>>>Erza, at this point he low diffs her.

Sure it does, lastet spoiler hasnt increased Erza's strength in the slightest.

Yeah you tried to use Erza's fight with Kyoka as justification for why Erza could beat Mard(this claim in itself is completely ridiculous and perfectly displaying how bias you are)
And why is an asspull Erza made pre skip relevant to an asspull Laxus made this arc? I never said Erza is weaker than Kyoka.

We already knew you were biased from the start(pretty much everyone did) yes.
1)Tanking Laxus' punches is what proves Jura isnt a glass cannon, not that he is, cause you know, Laxus>>Erza
2)Except magic breaking it is the only thing that makes sense, there was no impact, thus physical power couldnt be what shattered it. Laxus mid diffs Gray.
 
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