Games Mafia Game 65 - Ao no Exoricist Edition - End Game

[Asako]

Role list:
GrySun>>>>Paranoid Spy
Seraph>>>>Sane Apprentice
JamesRye>>>>Vengeful Townie
Demonspeed>>>>Naive Doctor
Crescent Jinx>>>>Insane Apprentice
Takuan>>>Mafia Pirate
Belserion>>>>Serial Killer
Holt>>>>Sane Detective
Erinyes>>>>Pirate
SonOfDaws>>>>Hider
MarmaladeSky>>>>Mafia Escort
Vandred>>>>Freeman
Lambu>>>>Insane Doctor
Shinobi>>>>Sane Doctor
Zasz>>>>Mafia Poisoner
TSPanda>>>>Prostitute
goodboy_lawlett>>>Insane Detective
Kato756>>>>Unskilled Mafia Member
Gryffindor>>>>Sickly Townie
Finalbeta>>>Mafia Detective​

End of D1 / Start of N1
End of N1 / Start of D2
End of D2 / Start of N2
End of N2 / Start of D3
End of D3 / Start of N3
D4 SKIPPED / Start of N4
End of N4/Start of D5
End of D5/Start of N5
End of N5/Start of D6
End of D6/END GAME
​

 

[Lady pompom]

Okay, time for the action list:

Spoiler: Day and Night Actions List

Action List

DAY 1
James lynched -Take down Grysun

NIGHT 1 ACTIONS
Mafia Killing- zasz poisons lambu
Blocking-Marmalade blocks Demonspeed
Investigating-Finalbeta investigates TSPanda>>>success>>> TSPanda's role is ‘Prostitute’
Pirate Takuan- no action
Kato -no action

Panda - block crescent>>> succeeds
Demon - protect zasz >>>> get blocked by marmalade
Shinobi>>> protect Zasz
Lambu only when protecting>>>>>>flips coin>>>Protects Vandred
Goodboy_lawlett - investigate kato >>>> innocent
Holt - investigate >>>> no action
SonofDaws>>> no action
Gryffindor>>>>>>Infect Zasz
Crescent>>> Learn from Holt>>>>get blocked by panda >>>>failed
Seraph>>>>>Learn from Erinyes >>> successs

Belserion>>>>>Kills Lawlett

DAY 2 - No penalties
Zasz has a flu and cannot vote on Day 2


NIGHT 2 ACTIONS
Finalbeta- Investigates Demonspeed >>> Your target's role is Doctor
Marmaladesky >>>blocks crescentjinx
Kato>>> kill Vandred>>> flip fails
Takuan -steals from TSPanda>>> fails

Panda>>>Blocks Jinx
Demon >>> Protect Jinx>>>>>No effect
Shinobi>>> protects Lambu
Lambu >>> Protects Holt>>> flips coin, success
Holt >>> investigate Takuan >>> result is ‘guilty’
SonofDaws>>>> hides behind demon>>>>succeeds
Gryffindor>>>>>>infects Lambu
Crescent>>>Learns from Holt>>>>blocked, fails
Seraph>>> Learns from Erinyes>>> succeeds>>> Becomes Pirate
Erinyes>>> no action

Belserion>>>>> kill takuan >>>succeeds


DAY 3
Erin gets 3 penalty votes for not posting thrice and 1 penalty vote for not voting.

NIGHT 3 ACTIONS
Finalbeta – investigate Holt>>>>>>Learns role 'Detective'
Marmaladesky >>blocks shinobi
Kato>>> kill erin>>>flip coin>>>succeeds

Panda>>> Block Erinyes
Shinobi>>> Protect Holt>>>blocked by escort
Holt >>>investigates Panda>>> gets innocent
SonofDaws>>>> hides behind Belserion>>>succeeds
Gryffindor>>>>>> infect Vandred
Crescent>>> learn form bel>>>>succeeds>>> has the role stolen, becomes townie
Seraph>>> Steal/Pirate CrescentJinx>>> succeeds, becomes “insane Apprentice”
Erinyes>>> no action

Belserion>>>>> kill Vandred>>>succeeds

DAY 4 SKIPPED

NIGHT 4 ACTIONS
Marmaladesky >Blocks Panda>>>>>Coin flip>>>>>Succeeds
Kato>>> Kills Holt>>>>>coin flip succeeds
Finalbeta >>>>>>Investigates Belserion>>>>Learns Role 'Serial Killer'

Panda>>> Block Kato>>>coin flip fails, blocked by escort
Shinobi>>> no action
Holt >>>Investigates Kato>>>>>Result 'Guilty'
SonofDaws>>>>Hides behind Belserion>>>>Succeeds
Gryffindor>>>>>>infect holt
Seraph>>>Holt

Belserion>>>>> kill shinobi>>>succeeds

DAY 5
CrescentJinx gets 1 penalty vote for not voting

NIGHT 5 ACTIONS
Finalbeta >>> investigate daws>>> get blocked>>>fail
Marmaladesky >>>>> murder Seraph

Panda>>>block Finalbeta
SonofDaws>>>> hide behind seraph
Gryffindor>>>>>> infect bel>>>succeeds
Seraph>>>Learns from TSPanda

Belserion>>>>> kill Gryffindor>>>succeeds

DAY 6
Belserion has a flu and cannot vote

 

[Takuan]

Alright alright. I got it. @TSPanda @GrySun fine fine OKAY, i may be overreacting xD
Dont think im a sore loser or something though. I got eliminated very early so i wouldn't have considefed myself winning had mafia won. I guess i just wanted Marmalade to win so i'm disappoointed :P
I guess
It just goes to show how unpredictab.e mafia games can be. I'll get used to it dont worry...
But for me to get used to it, i need to play more games!! @TSPanda when is your game?

 

[Copy Panda]

hmm im going to meet hyung end of next week, so probably the week after that?

~3 weeks from now?

 

[Lady pompom]

You guys made a cointoss here, right? It's not written like for the other cases where you wrote it, but it also needs a cointoss.

We did flip a coin, Bel had luck and got rid of him efore he stole the role, a fast Killer

Oh thanks Bel that's really nice of you!
And wait what!? You were planning to use me for your Evil Scheme? Woah...you know had i somehow managed to stay alive and the game had gone on for 2 more days at least i could've/would've used my newly aquired Insane Apprentice Role and learn from you i could've brought an incredible Twist into the game...

We were cheering so much that the insane apprentice would steal SK

Also Gryff and his deadly flu.

Sickly townie was one of the best roles this game, we considered it could be a game changing role, but stealing Bel's vote at the end was really what decided the game, @Gryffindor , good job!

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 21, 2018 ---

And everyone was dying with a flu

 

[Copy Panda]

We were cheering so much that the insane apprentice would steal SK

 

[Lady pompom]

Learn*

 

[GrySun]

Alright alright. I got it. @TSPanda @GrySun fine fine OKAY, i may be overreacting xD
Dont think im a sore loser or something though. I got eliminated very early so i wouldn't have considefed myself winning had mafia won. I guess i just wanted Marmalade to win so i'm disappoointed :P
I guess
It just goes to show how unpredictab.e mafia games can be. I'll get used to it dont worry...
But for me to get used to it, i need to play more games!! @TSPanda when is your game?

Oh I‘m not even hiding it, I am a bad loser. Losing sucks. And I want to win But winning/losing shouldn‘t affect about what you complain, only your tone/composure.

Once you‘re more experienced with more games under your belt you‘ll know better which games are balanced and which aren‘t, or what the balance problem is. Though sometimes even veterans disagree so, some cases aren‘t quite clear

 

[Vandred]

Though with that being said, I don't think the playstyle was drastically different from the OPM game save a few trolls here and there and the end of D5.

I think your playstyle this time also stood out more than in the OPM game due to half the players playing the same way, or being even more "on the sidelines", which I think led you and the others to have less stuff to latch onto and work with.

In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a game where three (three) scums get to the final day without even having bothered to make up a role claim. Not even a role hint.

Which is also why I can't agree that the mafia or the SK "deserved" the win more than the town, because even if the night targets were chosen well, the core of Mafia Games (and where you need to put in more effort to be effective) is all in the day phases. Which were undeniably led by the town, whether in a bad way (see D3) or in a good way (see D2, D5 and D6), while the scum did nothing or little more than that - see what Gry said about going along with Pandaplan(TM) by killing Erin and not even trying to follow up with incriminating Cres, Seraph or Panda himself. You guys basically just left the town to do their thing hoping they'd hand you the win, and, well... They didn't

Alright, I had a whole night to stew over this....bizarre turn of events, so I don't think anymore needs to be said. But I will explain the choice of roles in the game since I think that's a due explanation
Paranoid Spy - I got the idea to try out this role since I remember Demonspeed claiming this last game (The One Punch Man one) when he was Mafia, so I wondered how the role would work in a game lay out Also, because the first game I co hosted with Lambu, we had a Spy, so it was only fair to try out the other side of the spectrum.
Freeman - This was because in RWBY there was a Mafia Burden, so again, trying out the alternate version of the role. But I have to admit it landing on Van was well.....an unfortunate turn of events. But the double night phase was a good experience.
Insane Apprentice - This role was honestly supposed to be the most versatile one in the game due to the capacity to mimick any role, and yes, it was included on the off chance that a second Serial Killer would be birthed (So that the game would be two third parties vs a Mafia group vs Townies). In all honesty I am kind of disappointed that the game did not end up a Serial Killer/ Third Party win, but I suppose we can't all have all that we want in life There was also the off chance that Insane Apprentice would learn from a Mafia Member or townie and assimilate their role, but that Pirate steal
Sane Apprentice - Townie benefit role, I don't think much needs to be said here.
Mafia Pirate and Townie Pirate - I included these because I was salty af over Hancock losing So all of you would realize what you missed out on voting on in the WW
Vengeful Townie - I made an unsuccessful claim with this role last time I claimed it, so I figured someone else would would put it to better use than me Which actually ended up happening, so one of the positives in this game is a Vengeful townie being lynched for the first time (Unless I'm talking out of my ass here )
Sickly Townie - Again, a role that couldn't be used well in the OPM game, so I decided to give it a second go this time round. Which actually ended up being a half success (The Sickly Townie living on till day 5), and half failure because only two people ended up catching the flu. Maybe he was an Insane Sickly Townie
After realizing the RWBY game only had one doctor and one detective, we decided to empower town a little more this game and increase the number of protective and investigative roles. Along with a few duds in between so that even in the offset these roles got eliminated, town wouldn't be too handicapped. For protection roles there was a Naive Doctor, an Insane one and a Sane one. The Naive one ended up being lynched but town didn't exactly lose too much, though the reactions were
Same case as with investigative roles, a Sane Detective, and Insane Detective and a Paranoid spy. Of course the Paranoid Spy's results would be questionable but again, even if they were killed off or died it wouldn't be too big a blow to town.
The Mafia roles are self explanatory, but we also wanted to see how different a game would be without a Janitor/Assassin. And surprisingly it was actually a lot of fun, so I think the Mafia roles don't have too much to them.
I think that should be all for the roles Unless there are more questions?

So... you were too preoccupied with whether you could put those roles in, that you didn't stop to think if you should? You explained why you wanted them in the game, but didn't explain why you think the role list is good the way it is, or what purpose many of the roles serve.

The biggest problem I have with the setup are easily the 2 Apprentices and 2 Pirates. Pirate is mainly a townie confirmation tool, while Apprentice is that + a huge wildcard throwing balance out the window depending on which role it copies, making everything highly unstable. The best and worst case for them all could've made the game unwinnable for either team by day 3. 11/19 possible targets for them were either bad roles or outright death. One of which is the funny situation of them targeting each other, which even happened with Seraph going in circles. What was the purpose of having so many of them? Was it just to have wildcards that can create chaos? Or just for fun of the hosts to spectate?

Then there's all these active roles. 3 Docs, one of each version, which is a fancy way of saying there's only 1 doc and 2 liabilities which will get each other lynched upon reveal. Same with the paranoid Spy. Was his purpose to troll whichever player ends up with it so he blames/lynches the wrong person? Or messes up the Apprentices or other claims? The only passive roles were a vengeful, who rarely gets lynched so it's likely town has no killing potential in this setup, and the Freeman who is there to either balance out whatever is destroyed by the Apprentices/bunch of active roles or to further ruin a bad situation.

And finally, it's extremely coin-toss heavy. Which turns it more into a game of luck. Same problem I had with the Umineko game iirc. You said you wanted to make town stronger than in RWBY, but in the end just made a lot of pitfalls in terms of troll-roles and randomness.

I mostly agree with what Gry said, so I'll keep the shots few and brief.

Spoiler: I say that, but it's obviously a wall.

I think it's fine that you wanted to include some roles you'd like to have "just because" like the two Pirates, but maybe it would have been better if you hadn't put all of them at once in one single game

From your thoughts, I also think that the impression you have about certain roles is different from the one I've made for myself (which, for all intents and purposes, might very well be just me talking out of my ass), or didn't take into account - in my opinion, at least - the probability of those roles being used in one way instead of the other causing an imbalance in a setup which, like Gry said, is heavily based on randomness.

For instance, the few good targets for the Sane Apprentice and the Insane one, on the other hand, being more likely to be an asset to the town (at the very least, by confirming another townie) than joining the mafia, while the chances to become a second SK are much, much lower on paper. There was double the chance to see one of the two Apprentices learn from the Freeman than getting a second SK, for instance

What's more, an Apprentice can only start to be useful from N3, if they get lucky and target a good role from the beginning, don't get blocked by one of the two roleblockers, or have to start over because their first target died or became untrustworthy. That means they're not reliable ways to buff the town as a "jolly" role, but more of a "could be great, could be bad, but most likely will either be average or not manage to do much at all". The latter result being what happened for both of them in this game.

Then, some roles being included just to screw with the townies is also something that I think could have been toned down a little. Three Docs means one of them is almost certainly going to get lynched. With only one of them being reliable and another being completely useless (Naive doesn't even get fake results to share like meme Dets and Spies do, he just sits there thinking he's important), that's nerfing the already scarce protection that the town had, while it also meant having bogus targets for the Apprentices and Pirates, since they look good but are not.

On that note, it's also weird to see a Paranoid Spy in the game without a Sane one and with only two Dets as the other investigative roles for the town, while the mafia was given the Mafia Det to find and pick the roles to steal and kill - the poor SK included.

Other than that, the town didn't have any offensive or "trap" role that the mafia or SK would have to look out for - no bombs, BPs, PGOs, daykillers. Yet despite that, which I think was an interesting change, there were more townie roles that could kill others or themselves (which even happened in two cases, with the VT and the Hider) than roles that could protect (Doc and Hider, who ended up never saving anyone). In proportion, the ratio of useful power roles between town and mafia was tipped quite in favour of the latter as well.


In conclusion, I think the setup had some nice ideas, but just too many incompatible ones being stuffed into the same game made it a bit of a mess to play. Or that's the impression I got from playing half of it and spectating the rest. A lot of unpredictability stemming from several elements (two Apprentices + two Pirates, three Docs, Insane Doc, meme Spy, Freeman, SK) means it's harder for townies to formulate strategies and follow a sensible plan, but that's never actually been a thing so you can disregard this point

But seriously, it makes the game more relying on going with the flow and the town mainly having to avoid the pitfalls from the unreliable townie roles themselves rather than chasing the scum. In fact, I'm almost sure that losing all the result-producing roles and not getting them learned or stolen in the process was instrumental to the town's victory

And I know I addressed only @Emperor Spriggan in this, but don't think I don't know who else is actually responsible for some questionable choices here

 

[Lady pompom]

And I know I addressed only @Emperor Spriggan in this, but don't think I don't know who else is actually responsible for some questionable choices here

I said it in the pad it was half-half work. Pirate was more a counterpart of Mafia Pirate, also it would make it harder for MP to claim Pirate. The Det and docs stuff, Spriggan explained when he said we wanted to increase the protective/investigative roles since having one det was a problem in our last game. For the more, apprentices were taken as possible tools that could either become useful for town or other party (which is why we had sane-insane). Indeed placing all those roles at once seems it made the game a mess (a fun mess, I hope), mafia had that unskilled to balance a bit more things (and the pirate that could also end up becoming a less prestigious role of town like freeman/burden).

Not having Day killing roles was something we wanted to test, thus we included VT and Insane doc that could kill and have some townies that could kill mafia/3rd party too. It would be a matter of luck, though (but some day roles like Badass Cowboy also rely on luck).

About the only 2 dets, apprentices were there to possibly learn those useful roles (which Cres almost got) but things could go very wrong in learning other roles, indeed. We will try toning down troll roles next , right? @Emperor Spriggan

wait for fun stuff, though (with more balanced setup if possible).

 

[Copy Panda]

well it all worked out in the end right

 

[Seraph]

We were cheering so much that the insane apprentice would steal SK

 

[Crescent Jinx]

 

[GB]

These walls tho

 

[shinobi]

Also anyone want to ask @shinobi why she did that hint out of all the hints

As I told you, I didn't want to give any hints at that time XD

I will forget my grudge against you, that was so sweet.
Shame that it was pointless in the end

But..... you were holding a grudge against me all this time!!!

 

[Farfalla]

Pleazzzzzzz, any combination of me, Bel, Farfalla, Marma, Pom, Magi, Asako, Juviii, shinobi, Erin would be deadly.

Me and Magi would be deadly indeed. Just please lemme be Assassin when that happens @.@

 

[Asako]

Is it possible to kill a teammate

 

[Lambu]

Well I also think hosts got a little crazy with the role set up in this game, too complicated and dependant on luck.
But we all knew what we were signing up for, Mafia Game hosted by Empi and Pompom, Trolls of the Relic? and Asako the Evil?

I would have taken one of the troll roles out and one of the apprentices, then add a Vigilante or something.
Town wasn't strong enough to deserve a Freeman... though not smart enough to not deserve it I guess... but you guys didn't know that!

Angelspeed

You could ask to make it your title or something

Oh that reminds me, I forgot to include Lambu

S-shuddup baka!

But..... you were holding a grudge against me all this time!!!

Nah, stay assured Im not a vengeful person, but I'll never forget that murder of yours.

 

[Farfalla]

Is it possible to kill a teammate

Rule-wise, yes

 

[GrySun]

You could ask to make it your title or something

@xi0 onegai?

Is it possible to kill a teammate

You could, but should you?

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Me and Magi would be deadly indeed. Just please lemme be Assassin when that happens @.@

Is it possible to kill a teammate

I think I see the connection here.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 22, 2018 ---

S-shuddup baka!

Don't mind me.........

 

[Asako]

You could, but should you?

You should know already why I asked that question