Discussion Natsu Dragneel/E.N.D Thread

[Holt]

Do you have an opinion on where Natsu's END power may be ranked?

It should be his strongest mode. It's received a fair hit of hype so in guessing it's his strongest or well, it would be his strongest.

 

[DemonKing888]

It should be his strongest mode. It's received a fair hit of hype so in guessing it's his strongest or well, it would be his strongest.

Maybe his Demon Mode well have both strengths and weaknesses making it on par with Dragon Force with maybe a final Demon Dragon Force Mode being his final power-up when he accepts his past and forgives his brother.

The reason why I think it would be equal to Dragon Force is because Natsu should be able to use both King's Flame with Dragon Force at the same time. That alone is godly.

With END's power being Curse magic which is fueled by negative emotion based on what Jackal said. Feelings of friendship and love could weaken END which could explain how Igneel beat him without killing him. This theory is why I change my view on it being his strongest powerup.

Natsu will most likely find a new form of magic combining everything he knows with positive emotions changing Curse magic into something more pure.

Maybe Natsu will learn One Magic.

 

[Axiomus]

END was only created to kill Zeref, and there seems to be a fair gap between Zeref and Acnologia. Natsu's Dragon Force has the potential to make him as strong as Igneel at his prime, which is much closer to Acnologia. Plus in a manga where love means everything, a power based on hate is pretty much raising the "doomed to fail from the start" flag.

 

[Holt]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

Moderator Notice:
Edited the thread title to now generally accommodate topics related to E.N.D~ Holt

 

[Brandish μ]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

As far as I am concerned Gray will be the one to fight END with the use of Devil Slayer Magic, he might not do it alone but should be the main person to oppose END. The rest of Team Natsu should play a role too because they are close to Natsu. The rest of the guild have potential to get involved too. Gildarts is someone who has a special bond to Natsu. Gajeel has a rivalry of sorts with Natsu. So there's people who can play side roles for Gray.

 

[Arjuna]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

Before I state my opinion, I just want to say that I am not underestimating Jellal nor am I disagreeing with you. Your point may be a possibility but I personally think it is highly unlikely. I hype E.N.D to be extremely powerful, to the point current Gildarts would have a lot of trouble defeating him alone if at all. Yes, I understand Gildarts has not even appeared yet for me to determine his true power but I still hype him to be strong as he is the "Ace of Fairy Tail". For Jellal to go against E.N.D must mean either he is very strong or asking for a death wish. I do, however, believe Jellal may be a little stronger than Laxus but even Laxus himself probably won't stand a chance against E.N.D alone.

Yes you are right no character alone can fight with Master END.Even Acnologia is afraid of him.But I Think Natsu has surpassed Tenrou gildarts.

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------

As far as I am concerned Gray will be the one to fight END with the use of Devil Slayer Magic, he might not do it alone but should be the main person to oppose END. The rest of Team Natsu should play a role too because they are close to Natsu. The rest of the guild have potential to get involved too. Gildarts is someone who has a special bond to Natsu. Gajeel has a rivalry of sorts with Natsu. So there's people who can play side roles for Gray.

gray may give the best fight To Master END but he should not be able to defeat him.It is Lucy's Love for Natsu which will bring him back.

 

[SirSamuel016]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

If END is strong enough to have Acnologia scared, then I doubt someone like Gray could do much to him. It isn't even confirmed if END is an evil deity that needs to be fought, he's only been referred to as vile (because of how he was made). If END is evil and needs to be fought, it will ultimately be an internal conflict between the hate of the Etherious powers and the love of the true Natsu. No one would realistically be able to fight END and defeat him apart from someone like Acnologia imo.

 

[Arjuna]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

If END is strong enough to have Acnologia scared, then I doubt someone like Gray could do much to him. It isn't even confirmed if END is an evil deity that needs to be fought, he's only been referred to as vile (because of how he was made). If END is evil and needs to be fought, it will ultimately be an internal conflict between the hate of the Etherious powers and the love of the true Natsu. No one would realistically be able to fight END and defeat him apart from someone like Acnologia imo.

Gray will fight because of his Ice Devil Slayer Magic.Master END was the vilest Demon.He was the leader of tartaros a guild of evil demons.He created curses out of negative emotions.Igneel tried to destroy to destroy if his only rebirth was vile then Igneel would not have bothered to try to destroy him.

 

[Dranzer]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

Gray will fight because of his Ice Devil Slayer Magic.Master END was the vilest Demon.He was the leader of tartaros a guild of evil demons.He created curses out of negative emotions.Igneel tried to destroy to destroy if his only rebirth was vile then Igneel would not have bothered to try to destroy him.

Just because Gray has Devil Slayer Magic doesn't mean he has the power to fight the strongest demons from them all. He is still relatively new to the magic and still isn't experienced. Comparing Gray to END would be like comparing Base-Natsu to Acnologia.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

Yes you are right no character alone can fight with Master END.Even Acnologia is afraid of him.But I Think Natsu has surpassed Tenrou gildarts.

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------



gray may give the best fight To Master END but he should not be able to defeat him.It is Lucy's Love for Natsu which will bring him back.

Yeah, as far as I am concerned, Natsu is now stronger than Tenrou Gildarts but not even lose to the current Gildarts in Alvarez who I hype to be really powerful. Unlike others, I can agree with you that a possible enemy of E.N.D would be Gray. I'm not entirely convinced that Ice Devil Slayer Gray can beat E.N.D but its definitely possible that he'll take on E.N.D no matter what. He may even die in that battle for all we know and then E.N.D could face another opponent whether it is Zeref, Acnologia, or Ankhseram. Of course this is just what I want to happen but my hope is that E.N.D would either return back to the Natsu we know right now or die which would probably be the end of Fairy Tail. However, I am more convinced of the first option because knowing Hiro Mashima, Fairy Tail will have a good ending. Therefore, Gray will mostly not die and E.N.D will somehow defeat his enemies whether it is just him or all of Fairy Tail, Ishgar, Alvarez, etc.

In response to others, I can see your guys' points on how Gray may not be effective against E.N.D due to his raw power alone compared to E.N.D. I don't deny the fact that Gray is most likely weaker than E.N.D but that shouldn't really prevent Gray from trying. We know Gray has Ice Devil Slaying Magic which may help him to fight against E.N.D; however, at the same time, I am not saying that Gray will defeat E.N.D because of that. All I am saying is Gray is a possible opponent for E.N.D but of course he'll need help which that remains to be unknown as to who has enough power to go against E.N.D himself when the time comes.

 

[Brandish μ]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

If END is strong enough to have Acnologia scared, then I doubt someone like Gray could do much to him.

Just because Gray has Devil Slayer Magic doesn't mean he has the power to fight the strongest demons from them all. He is still relatively new to the magic and still isn't experienced. Comparing Gray to END would be like comparing Base-Natsu to Acnologia.

You guys are looking at it from a pure power perspective but ignoring how damaging devil slayer magic is against demons.

Gray took down Mard Geer in Etherious form. Gray was using Silvers' magic at the time but the power level of Gray at that moment was no stronger than Natsu (and I believe Natsu was still stronger power wise). So for this instance, someone as powerful as Gray was (or Natsu) was able to take down Etherious form Mard Geer who was extremely powerful. The difference between Mard and Gray/Natsu on power alone is significant. Even in Dragon Force Natsu was not able to do heavy damage despite delivering a secret technique.

So the battle against Mard Geer shows how efficient Devil Slayer Magic is against demons (the Tempesta one-shot can also be cited). END is superior to Mard Geer. The current Gray is superior to the Tartarus Gray. Gray has had time to control the magic (improve) or at least that is what we are made to believe right now. So going by this I don't see why Gray would be discounted from the fight with END. It is very likely imo that Gray should have slayer spells that dish out significant damage to END. To deny this would be to disregard everything about devil slayer magic as presented in Tartarus arc.

To be clear this is NOT a comparison of power, I am not saying Gray's power right now is similar to END; I am saying that Gray's magic is so efficient against demons he has the weapons to take on END. Gray will still not be powerful enough to solo END. Just like against Etherious form Mard Geer; the speed and power of Mard was too much for Gray to take him on alone, Gray needed Natsu alongside him so that he could actually hit Mard. So in a fight against END I imagine Gray being the main fighter as he's the most suited to deal out damage, while others assist to give Gray opportunities.

It isn't even confirmed if END is an evil deity that needs to be fought, he's only been referred to as vile (because of how he was made). If END is evil and needs to be fought, it will ultimately be an internal conflict between the hate of the Etherious powers and the love of the true Natsu.

I think this emotional fight you explain is very possible, just as an actual fight. I don't like to speculate how Hiro wants to solve this because he already has Acnologia and Alvarez on his plate and those 2 things alone are going to take a lot of work with hopefully as few plot holes as possible.

Gray thinking about END hints that there will be a fight, but this is just a character saying it so there is no proof in the words. It could easily be turned into 'Natsu is END??' type thing and Gray struggling with that emotionally etc etc.

 

[SirSamuel016]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

You guys are looking at it from a pure power perspective but ignoring how damaging devil slayer magic is against demons.

Even though its Devil Slayer magic, there's still a big issue for Gray which means his magic won't do much to E.N.D, and that is that its ice. E.N.D has been noted as a flame demon, and if you put Natsu's Flame Dragon magic with that, you have two types of Fire END can use. Ice also has a bad match-up against Fire, as Gray acknowledged when Wahl's weakness Robot attacked him with fire. Just because its devil slayer magic doesn't mean it will have much of an effect against END.

 

[Brandish μ]

It is definitely possible that the element weakness will reduce Gray's effect. Whether the element weakness trumps slayer weakness is up for debate, I would definitely side with devil slaying magic having greater impact on demons than fire having negative impact on ice. This is because devil slaying magic has shown to be effective against demons; while I don't know if a fire curse can negate ice devil slaying magic just because it is fire. If it does turn out that the fire can mitigate devil slaying ice I would say others that are helping out in the fight try and give Gray opportunities to hit END with a slayer spell, because the etherious body should still be vulnerable (unless he's got a fire body like Atlas flame).

To be honest before Wahl I never got the impression that ice was weak against fire, or at least there are times where it doesn't seem weak. For instance Silver sought out ice devil slaying magic because END was a fire demon. Or that the sun village (eternal flame) was sealed off by ice. Element weakness has been a minor theme in the manga as far as I know. Only time I can really remember it (pre-Wahl) was when Laxus was fighting Atlas Flame and comments were made that it was a poor match up, and a water dragon slayer would be most efficient.

I'd be very surprised if Gray is not the most important fighter against END if there is an actual fight. Unless other devil slayers show up. Gray has more tricks up his sleeve that he hyped in the prelude to the current war, which likely trump the slayer spells he showed against Tartarus.

 

[Holt]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

Even though its Devil Slayer magic, there's still a big issue for Gray which means his magic won't do much to E.N.D, and that is that its ice. E.N.D has been noted as a flame demon, and if you put Natsu's Flame Dragon magic with that, you have two types of Fire END can use. Ice also has a bad match-up against Fire, as Gray acknowledged when Wahl's weakness Robot attacked him with fire. Just because its devil slayer magic doesn't mean it will have much of an effect against END.

In all fairness, one can't really say ice is weak against fire any more than fire is weak against ice. It would come down to potency of the attacks used and magic power behind it. E.N.D should best Gray in that regard but Gray has the advantage of devil slayer magic which is very effective against demons. The thing is that Gray doesn't have to be as strong as E.N.D for his magic to be dangerous to him. It's just like how gray's power normally is anywhere near Natsu's dragon force and yet he could perform at the same level or higher against Mard Geer.
Now gray having the raw power to fight E.N.D is something else entirely and that remains to be seen.

 

[Vasgoko]

Re: Fairy Tail 461 Discussion/ 462 Predictions

Just because Gray has Devil Slayer Magic doesn't mean he has the power to fight the strongest demons from them all. He is still relatively new to the magic and still isn't experienced. Comparing Gray to END would be like comparing Base-Natsu to Acnologia.

No, not really. What other Devil Slayers do you have in mind that could fight END? Silver? He's a lifeless corpse now. As far as we know, Gray is the only Devil Slayer. Gray's has had that magic for 1 year now in the current timeline, so he isn't "new". Proof is when he was able to control his transformation (the black marks). Plus, Gray is one of FT's strongest, the most well known guild all throughout Fiore. So he isn't just some shame to the name or a newly sprouted Devil Slayer.

Next, you are matching up END with his very first rival since they were kids. Who is better to fight END than the person who used to spar with him as a kid and learned every single fighting style and technique and tricks that he has up his sleeve. Gray has been experienced in fighting Natsu for well over 10+ years. It may seem hilarious that they fight every single day, but imagine how much experience Gray has now. Not only is Gray effective, but he knows a way to counter Natsu worse comes to worse.

Gray has the better mind than Natsu even if Natsu has matured and used logic in battle. Gray has the advantage over that and knows Natsu pretty well. Like his emotion and personality and things he would dare and would not dare to do.

 

[Arjuna]

gray might give the best fight.But he should not be able to defeat Master END as his energy is huge as we believe.Being a slayer alone doesn't mean you can kill your Slayer type.In GMG none of The Dragon Slayers was able to kill a Dragon.

 

[Vasgoko]

Yeah, I have no problem with what you said. But if that is the case, I will accept nothing of the sort about Gray being super powerful in Tartaros because he is a slayer. I'm willing to agree with anybody about slaying magic not being the cause for victory, but the same treatment will be given to Natsu as it is to Gray as it is to any other character.

Otherwise, if anybody disagree then nobody should be complaining if END is beaten by Gray himself.

 

[dark123]

You can be god slayer or demon slayer or dragon slayer or whatever but as natsulucy said you cannot defeat being that is too strong for you. Natsu is absolute, perfect being. He is perfect form of Mavis. Perfect magic nuke. We should already know that since Tartaros arc Mashima changed a bit his plans for END. He showed us that he was created after Tartaros demons had been created and he was created from pure Ether and as his name says he is light which devours all darkness because Etherious comes from Aether, god of light and air. Well there is possibility that in his fight against last enemy he will be consumed by power because his power is so huge that to master it he for sure will need time and there will come Lucy. Fairy Tail is almost copy of Rave master

 

[jumaru7]

You can be god slayer or demon slayer or dragon slayer or whatever but as natsulucy said you cannot defeat being that is too strong for you. Natsu is absolute, perfect being. He is perfect form of Mavis. Perfect magic nuke. We should already know that since Tartaros arc Mashima changed a bit his plans for END. He showed us that he was created after Tartaros demons had been created and he was created from pure Ether and as his name says he is light which devours all darkness because Etherious comes from Aether, god of light and air. Well there is possibility that in his fight against last enemy he will be consumed by power because his power is so huge that to master it he for sure will need time and there will come Lucy. Fairy Tail is almost copy of Rave master

You are so right about it with a major detail being lucy going "daisuki desu" at the end.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

gray might give the best fight.But he should not be able to defeat Master END as his energy is huge as we believe.Being a slayer alone doesn't mean you can kill your Slayer type.In GMG none of The Dragon Slayers was able to kill a Dragon.

Nobody said Gray will 1v1 E.N.D and come out victorious. We're just saying with Gray will probably be the one to defeat E.N.D with the help of others. If you don't think so, then we'll just leave it as that. It is a matter of opinion and we shouldn't state these predictions as a fact.

You can be god slayer or demon slayer or dragon slayer or whatever but as natsulucy said you cannot defeat being that is too strong for you. Natsu is absolute, perfect being. He is perfect form of Mavis. Perfect magic nuke. We should already know that since Tartaros arc Mashima changed a bit his plans for END. He showed us that he was created after Tartaros demons had been created and he was created from pure Ether and as his name says he is light which devours all darkness because Etherious comes from Aether, god of light and air. Well there is possibility that in his fight against last enemy he will be consumed by power because his power is so huge that to master it he for sure will need time and there will come Lucy. Fairy Tail is almost copy of Rave master

You are wrong when you say you cannot defeat a being that is stronger than you. There are too many factors to name such as the level of intelligence of each character which Erza and Gray has proved in their fights many time and the condition of the battle like the terrain/place, distance, etc. You may or may not be able to 1v1 them. That depends on which exact battle we are talking about like Acnologia vs Natsu, Zeref vs Gray, Ankhseram vs Gildarts. Those are unrealistic and Natsu, Gray, along with Gildarts will lose. However, a weaker person can surely beat someone that is stronger than them otherwise, each fight would be too predictable.