Hangout One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[Kiki]

Come join MangaHelpers' World Cup 2022 Pick 'em challenge before Sunday (11/20) and discuss the matches!

 

[Fox666]

I wouldn't call it a plot hole. The "plot hole" is purely based on his mustache or the lack of it.

King looks old enough to fit the timeline too.

Maybe Kaido wanted to try a new look and just didn't like how his face felt without a mustache, we don't know.

Seriously though, more likely than not, Oda's mustasche consistency game was off in regards to Kaido.

Kaido and King likely had that conversation between the time Roger became Pirate King and Oden's official return to Wano. Maybe it even took place during the 5 years of dancing Oden did. During Oden's flashback, you can even see Kaido had no mustache when he was fighting Oden in Orochi's palace.

Kaido and Orochi turned Wano into a weapon's factory under Higurashi's recommendation while Oden was gone, so that 3rd page likely happened before Roger even landed on Raftel.

It's not just the mustache, Kaido's hair also changed, and his expression

 

[electricmastro]

Yamato possibly hesitant to leave Wano out of fear of not living up to Oden's name.

 

[weixiaobao]

" Watsuki, apart from being one of Jump's most popular new creators, was somewhat more easygoing than Tokuhiro and allowed his assistants greater participation in his work; Oda in particular was credited with conceptualizing the crossdressing swordsman Honjō Kamatari. "

Hmmmmmmmmm, so this is when it all started hmmmm..... I didn't know the plot is this thick.

 

[kkck]

Something I wanted to comment on.... We have seen BB do two big moves recently: Attacking hancock and then his battle with the heart pirates. He showed up to the fight with hancock with two other commanders and aship iirc. Against law he showed up with a ship, some foot soldiers and 3 commanders. It kinda seems like the BB pirates are trying to handle big threats with relatively few resources? At least when jack went to zou he moved with a bunch of ships and access to substantial reinforcements. I wonder if BB's approach to this conflicts is fueled by arrogance or perhaps his crew simply not being up there with other yonko crews in terms of resources...

There's another issue to consider... BB has gotten directly involved in these conflicts. Meanwhile with past yonko it seemed relatively rare for the yonko captains to get directly involved in stuff. Crews in general form a pretty airtight barrier around their emperor. However BB didn't win against hancock, if anything this was a defeat for him, and him defeating law seems like a bad fit for the story... Basically BB is a yonko captain who is not winning. Could that lead to problems with his crew? His crew doesn't seem as tightly nit as other yonko crews, specially when it comes to the former impel down prisoners.

 

[Fox666]

Something I wanted to comment on.... We have seen BB do two big moves recently: Attacking hancock and then his battle with the heart pirates. He showed up to the fight with hancock with two other commanders and aship iirc. Against law he showed up with a ship, some foot soldiers and 3 commanders. It kinda seems like the BB pirates are trying to handle big threats with relatively few resources? At least when jack went to zou he moved with a bunch of ships and access to substantial reinforcements. I wonder if BB's approach to this conflicts is fueled by arrogance or perhaps his crew simply not being up there with other yonko crews in terms of resources...

There's another issue to consider... BB has gotten directly involved in these conflicts. Meanwhile with past yonko it seemed relatively rare for the yonko captains to get directly involved in stuff. Crews in general form a pretty airtight barrier around their emperor. However BB didn't win against hancock, if anything this was a defeat for him, and him defeating law seems like a bad fit for the story... Basically BB is a yonko captain who is not winning. Could that lead to problems with his crew? His crew doesn't seem as tightly nit as other yonko crews, specially when it comes to the former impel down prisoners.

I don't think the Emperors themselves didn't get directly involved with stuff

More like the author didn't wanted to the audience to see the Emperors in action

When it was time for the Emperors to show what they are capable of, they took the lead on anything their crew was doing


Regarding Blackbeard not using his entire crew, it makes sense against Hancock, he probably didn't expected so much trouble

I presume against Law it wasn't planned, I suspect it was Law who ambushed Teach

 

[kkck]

I don't think the Emperors themselves didn't get directly involved with stuff

More like the author didn't wanted to the audience to see the Emperors in action

When it was time for the Emperors to show what they are capable of, they took the lead on anything their crew was doing


Regarding Blackbeard not using his entire crew, it makes sense against Hancock, he probably didn't expected so much trouble

I presume against Law it wasn't planned, I suspect it was Law who ambushed Teach

Big mom and kaido seem to have spent most of their time in their respective homes though. I don't think they were completely inactive but with as big as their organizations were it was probably more of a rare sight to see them in action. Maybe the difference is that BB is more of an upstart even as a yonko.

Yeah, against BB he said he wasn't expecting that much trouble iirc. Though it still seems like a lackluster attempt compared to other stuff we saw from other yonko. With big mom there was the implication that if she didn't like your deal she'd send a fleet to destroy your island.

From the context it seems like it's BB who sought law. If not that, whichever supernova was closest to him.

 

[HereNThere]

Something I wanted to comment on.... We have seen BB do two big moves recently: Attacking hancock and then his battle with the heart pirates. He showed up to the fight with hancock with two other commanders and aship iirc. Against law he showed up with a ship, some foot soldiers and 3 commanders. It kinda seems like the BB pirates are trying to handle big threats with relatively few resources? At least when jack went to zou he moved with a bunch of ships and access to substantial reinforcements. I wonder if BB's approach to this conflicts is fueled by arrogance or perhaps his crew simply not being up there with other yonko crews in terms of resources...

There's another issue to consider... BB has gotten directly involved in these conflicts. Meanwhile with past yonko it seemed relatively rare for the yonko captains to get directly involved in stuff. Crews in general form a pretty airtight barrier around their emperor. However BB didn't win against hancock, if anything this was a defeat for him, and him defeating law seems like a bad fit for the story... Basically BB is a yonko captain who is not winning. Could that lead to problems with his crew? His crew doesn't seem as tightly nit as other yonko crews, specially when it comes to the former impel down prisoners.

Simply put, yes, it is just a lack of resources most likely. The other Yonkou have spent decades building their empires, making connections, and taking over the New World to set up the previous status quo. Blackbeard has only been at it for 2 years. He's built up a modest crew, but it's just not going to be on the level of the others at this point in time.

As for BB getting directly involved, it just shows that he's willing to get his hands dirty, not unlike Luffy. He's actively working towards his goals rather than sitting and consolidating power as Kaido and Big Mom did. And he can't really afford to not get involved since Luffy, Law, and Kid are both incredibly strong and are now, technically, the closest to finding One Piece. His Commanders wouldn't stand a chance against them.

I expect Blackbeard's crew to ditch him as Xebec's did, but not because he's not winning now. They've failed plenty of times in the past and they can afford to fail a couple more. He's not gotten every win he wanted, but he's still getting results. Blackbeard is equal parts smart and extremely lucky, so most of his failures tend to turn into benefits in the long run. He didn't get Hancock's fruit, but he got Koby, who seems to be extremely important for some reason. He's unlikely to win against Law, but it is highly likely that he'll still get the Road Ponegylph from him somehow or something equally advantageous down the road.

His crew will likely abandon him when he needs them most and when they are on the very cusp of having everything. And that will only be because he didn't inspire any sort of loyalty in them as Luffy and Roger did. He only picked them for their strength and nothing else.

 

[kkck]

Simply put, yes, it is just a lack of resources most likely. The other Yonkou have spent decades building their empires, making connections, and taking over the New World to set up the previous status quo. Blackbeard has only been at it for 2 years. He's built up a modest crew, but it's just not going to be on the level of the others at this point in time.

As for BB getting directly involved, it just shows that he's willing to get his hands dirty, not unlike Luffy. He's actively working towards his goals rather than sitting and consolidating power as Kaido and Big Mom did. And he can't really afford to not get involved since Luffy, Law, and Kid are both incredibly strong and are now, technically, the closest to finding One Piece. His Commanders wouldn't stand a chance against them.

I expect Blackbeard's crew to ditch him as Xebec's did, but not because he's not winning now. They've failed plenty of times in the past and they can afford to fail a couple more. He's not gotten every win he wanted, but he's still getting results. Blackbeard is equal parts smart and extremely lucky, so most of his failures tend to turn into benefits in the long run. He didn't get Hancock's fruit, but he got Koby, who seems to be extremely important for some reason. He's unlikely to win against Law, but it is highly likely that he'll still get the Road Ponegylph from him somehow or something equally advantageous down the road.

His crew will likely abandon him when he needs them most and when they are on the very cusp of having everything. And that will only be because he didn't inspire any sort of loyalty in them as Luffy and Roger did. He only picked them for their strength and nothing else.

I don't think it's fair to characterize BB's crew as modest at any point in time. Right out of marineford it was probably one of the strongest crews in the world. Two years later they took over at least over a significant portion of WB's territory.

Koby is probably important because he is famous. The optics of a popular marine hero getting kidnapped and captured by a yonko are not good for the WG.

So... a backstab by the end? I won't rule it out of course but we'd need context that doesn't make this immediately counterproductive for the backstabbers. As in, an scenario where such a thing is actually profitable and not merely shitting where they eat.

 

[HereNThere]

I don't think it's fair to characterize BB's crew as modest at any point in time. Right out of marineford it was probably one of the strongest crews in the world. Two years later they took over at least over a significant portion of WB's territory.

Koby is probably important because he is famous. The optics of a popular marine hero getting kidnapped and captured by a yonko are not good for the WG.

So... a backstab by the end? I won't rule it out of course but we'd need context that doesn't make this immediately counterproductive for the backstabbers. As in, an scenario where such a thing is actually profitable and not merely shitting where they eat.

I mean modest in terms of size, not quality. It doesn't look like he has the armies of underlings that Big Mom and Kaido had and can afford to send fleets after single individuals at a moments notice.

I don't know about that. Blackbeard doesn't usually do things that won't personally benefit him. Kidnapping Koby just to make the Marines look bad doesn't seem like something he'd do. I feel there's more to it.

Definitely by the end. I feel Blackbeard's crew is going to self-destruct at a key moment in the story, where everyone has the most to gain and lose. And, if that is the case, it could be something where some end up turning on Blackbeard to try and take all of the "treasure" for themselves, while others try jumping ship to save themselves if it looks like they'll die or be arrested.

 

[wing_gundam]

I know I've said this a few times but the wano anime is such garbage. The only way to make a terrible arc worse is to lengthen it with DBZ Namek style episodes with nothing but "aaaaaaaaghhhhhhhh".

I really want the anime to make the manga more exciting and complement the experience. But I always get left feeling its worse. I thought I'd skip for a while til the main tobi roppo fights but damn, they just drag it out to such bs territory.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I know I've said this a few times but the wano anime is such garbage. The only way to make a terrible arc worse is to lengthen it with DBZ Namek style episodes with nothing but "aaaaaaaaghhhhhhhh".

I really want the anime to make the manga more exciting and complement the experience. But I always get left feeling its worse. I thought I'd skip for a while til the main tobi roppo fights but damn, they just drag it out to such bs territory.

OnePace is the only way to go for OP anime fights these days.

 

[kkck]

Something I've had in my mind for a while...Vegapunk is a character whose influence can be felt through significant portions of the story. MADS only becomes more relevant by the day. Veganpunk has worked with a number of people who have had relevance in the story. All former MADS members we know have appeared in the story using unique technology, at the time, to give the strawhats trouble. In particular:

1.- First we have good old caesar clown. Caesar uses SAD to create artificial and inferior devil fruits. SAD was able to create said devil fruits from animal lineage factors.

2.- Then we have judge. There are two specific bits of technology that are relevant. His clones and his ability to modify humans. His clone technology is used to manufacture a loyal an relatively expendable clone army. In practice judge has one of the most capable militias in the planet. His human modification was used to alter his children's lineage factor and grant them inhuman abilities. The most obvious abilities are enhanced physical capacity, enhanced healing, resistance to damage and an exoskeleton. Then all of judge's kids have special abilities which are apparently unrelated but enhanced by their respective raid suits. Sparkling red, poison pink and such. Curiously some of these abilities actually resemble other abilities we have seen in the story. Light, electricity, explosions, poison... Some of those even from government affiliated folk (magellan, kizaru..). These abilities almost seem like paramecia abilities.

3.- Then we get to queen. Queen has shown he has capacity to create viruses and diseases on command. He has modified his body into being a cyborg. He also has all of judge's kids abilities. Viruses are interesting here because in real life viruses can potentially be used to deliver genetic material for medical treatments and such (My framing here might be off here, but the gist should be clear).

Essentially, the technology plot points in the story are all traceable to vegapunk. And funny enough, these 3 people claim to have surpassed vegapunk to some capacity. Funny because, welp, vegapunk left them in the dirt without even trying. I am talking of course of seraphines.

The 3 scientists before have used inferior versions of technology that have clearly come into play when developing seraphines. Just consider their characteristics:

1.- Pacifista are clones of the original shichibukai.
2.- Pacifista are cyborg.
3.- Pacifista have copied devil fruit abilities
4.- Pacifista have modified lineage factors (they all have lunarian physiology)

Essentialy, seraphines are the culmination and combination of most technology that has at some point or another been a major plot point in the story. Seraphines are something that oda has clearly spent a lot of time meticulously building up to.

 

[Erinyes]

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2022 ---

Odas message in jump Festa :

Translation :

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2022 ---

Ah most people theories are that this refers likely to Shanks vs Blackbeard fight.

 

[HereNThere]

Ah most people theories are that this refers likely to Shanks vs Blackbeard fight.

I think it's going to be Luffy vs. Shanks. A battle royale would make more sense if their two crews clashed. I feel like Luffy should meet Shanks before either gets a shot at Blackbeard.

 

[wing_gundam]

Something I've had in my mind for a while...Vegapunk is a character whose influence can be felt through significant portions of the story. MADS only becomes more relevant by the day. Veganpunk has worked with a number of people who have had relevance in the story. All former MADS members we know have appeared in the story using unique technology, at the time, to give the strawhats trouble. In particular:

1.- First we have good old caesar clown. Caesar uses SAD to create artificial and inferior devil fruits. SAD was able to create said devil fruits from animal lineage factors.

2.- Then we have judge. There are two specific bits of technology that are relevant. His clones and his ability to modify humans. His clone technology is used to manufacture a loyal an relatively expendable clone army. In practice judge has one of the most capable militias in the planet. His human modification was used to alter his children's lineage factor and grant them inhuman abilities. The most obvious abilities are enhanced physical capacity, enhanced healing, resistance to damage and an exoskeleton. Then all of judge's kids have special abilities which are apparently unrelated but enhanced by their respective raid suits. Sparkling red, poison pink and such. Curiously some of these abilities actually resemble other abilities we have seen in the story. Light, electricity, explosions, poison... Some of those even from government affiliated folk (magellan, kizaru..). These abilities almost seem like paramecia abilities.

3.- Then we get to queen. Queen has shown he has capacity to create viruses and diseases on command. He has modified his body into being a cyborg. He also has all of judge's kids abilities. Viruses are interesting here because in real life viruses can potentially be used to deliver genetic material for medical treatments and such (My framing here might be off here, but the gist should be clear).

Essentially, the technology plot points in the story are all traceable to vegapunk. And funny enough, these 3 people claim to have surpassed vegapunk to some capacity. Funny because, welp, vegapunk left them in the dirt without even trying. I am talking of course of seraphines.

The 3 scientists before have used inferior versions of technology that have clearly come into play when developing seraphines. Just consider their characteristics:

1.- Pacifista are clones of the original shichibukai.
2.- Pacifista are cyborg.
3.- Pacifista have copied devil fruit abilities
4.- Pacifista have modified lineage factors (they all have lunarian physiology)

Essentialy, seraphines are the culmination and combination of most technology that has at some point or another been a major plot point in the story. Seraphines are something that oda has clearly spent a lot of time meticulously building up to.

I mean MADS was run by a rich dark underworld ruler. And like every rich, dark underworld ruler they are interested in preserving their life and profit (weapons, drugs, loan sharks). All this goes hand in hand and not entirely surprising.

I wouldn't even be surprise if Oda throws as Du Feld as the final boss in some way or form. I mean do we really want this guy to be left alone and ignored after Luffy presumably eliminates the nobility of this world one day?

There is a link to the underworld and CP0 with Stussy, so who knows. Maybe he's get some daylight soon too.

 

[kkck]

I mean MADS was run by a rich dark underworld ruler. And like every rich, dark underworld ruler they are interested in preserving their life and profit (weapons, drugs, loan sharks). All this goes hand in hand and not entirely surprising.

I wouldn't even be surprise if Oda throws as Du Feld as the final boss in some way or form. I mean do we really want this guy to be left alone and ignored after Luffy presumably eliminates the nobility of this world one day?

There is a link to the underworld and CP0 with Stussy, so who knows. Maybe he's get some daylight soon too.

BUt... that's kinda besides my point? My post was about how tech relevant plot points across the new world are deeply connected to the seraphines.

The stussy bit seems more related to how the world government and perhaps more importantly the world nobles have their own ties and perhaps hand in the underworld. Stussy turned out to be a high ranking CP0 agent, morgans is a bit of a wild card but he has or at least had the world government on speed dial. Du Feld's connection to MADS is an unknown quantity, specially considering the implication of a connection to people like judge, queen, caesar and vegapunk. Add to this doflamingo's own criminal empire and his own connection to the world nobles... We also saw CP0 being used by the world government as a liaison to wano. All put together it actually looks like the world government is a major benefactor of the underworld. Perhaps through force and CP0 it's not that big a leap that big names in the underworld are to some capacity sanctioned by the world government. This wouldn't apply to yonko but otherwise it looks like the world government had enough of a hand in the underworld to suggest they were doing their very best to run it. And with morgans going rogue, doflamingo being taken out, buggy becoming a yonko (he mentioned doflamingo was his top competitor) and two yonko they previously influenced via said underworld being gone it looks like the world government might have lost its hold over it.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2022, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2022 ---

Bit of a weird point but looking at the timeline the time where the shimotsuki illegally left wano and when the rumba pirates were around sort of fits. I wonder if perhaps a younger brook ever met with the shimotsuki crew. It seemed weird that zoro's connection to wano was never directly addressed but perhaps brook will eventually share some insight regarding what the samura's great adventure was.

 

[weixiaobao]

People are surprised at this. Asia does consume a ton of Western stuffs including Oda's generation. Vicky the Viking is a German cartoon after all. When I lived in Asia I enjoyed a lot of Belgium comics (the usual classic). I was super surprise that Americans don't know about Lucky Luke. But stuffs that has a lot of non verbal humor, that can transcend cultures like Mr Bean or Tom & Jerry are well loved in Asia. At least in my generation, Tom and Jerry was as iconic as Journey to the West or Doreamon. Come to think of it, Tom and Jerry may have been my favorite cartoon when I was much much younger.


Also a Waikin preview for Water 7

 

[LadyVados]

Luffy is the biggest Nepo baby in fiction. CMV.

 

[Zehahaha]

I know I've said this a few times but the wano anime is such garbage. The only way to make a terrible arc worse is to lengthen it with DBZ Namek style episodes with nothing but "aaaaaaaaghhhhhhhh".

I really want the anime to make the manga more exciting and complement the experience. But I always get left feeling its worse. I thought I'd skip for a while til the main tobi roppo fights but damn, they just drag it out to such bs territory.

Personally stopped watching it. I am just waiting to see how they will animate Gear 5

I will say it: the era of an ongoing anime serie is over imo. You cannot consistently produce quality episodes under such schedule. That isn't to say that seasons style schedule yields better results (depends on the studio), but it is generally better. I am watching Bleach and Chainsaw Man at the moment, and the quality is just amazing.