One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

You're actually wrong, lol.
As I said, they only know the results/conclusion. Not the full details.
It's not a double-standard, you're just uninformed, lol.
Usopp is no different, they only know he played a huge role, thus the bounty. They most of the time never know the details buddy.

It is a double standard. Here are some of your statements regarding this.
"Lol, no, Usopp didn't defeat anyone. "
"Usopp gaining a 170m bounty increase despite defeating no one."
And in your last reply you say they only know the result. Then in your previous reply regarding this you say they dont know it was Usopp while plenty of people saw him but they do know it was Zoro who took out mr 1 even tho nobody saw him.
Flawless system, in your dreams.

Wrong, Blackbeard was doing it on behalf if the WG to become a Shichibukai.
To say otherwise is a lie, lol.

He was not a Schichibukai, he was not doing it on behalf on WG. Lafitte bought him time to get the seat. Facts, buddy.

Nope, wrong again.
Law became a Shichibukai for delivering a 100 hears, not Rocky Ports.
Do your research buddy, lol.
You can't even get these simple facts right, then what exactly do you have worth responding to?

Well, buddy, if you did your research and if you took my advice to re-read since you are forgetting things, you would know that Rocky Port incident is the incident when Law delivered 100 hearts.

Lol that wasn't an incident, that was merely escaping.

It was an incident, the Marines lost two Pacifistas. They were merely escaping from WCI as well and took out two commanders. Another contradiction.

Completely false, lol.
This is something you're making up, but this is the best you can do.
Bounties only go up with incidents, lol. Katakuri couldn't have gotten a 1 billion bounty for doing nothing.

Nothing is false here, its all facts. Prove me otherwise.
Katakuri wasnt involved with War of the best, fact. Prove me otherwise.
Katakuri wasnt involved with Impel Down, fact. Prove me otherwise.
Katakuri didnt destroy Enies Lobby, fact. Prove me otherwise.
Snack and Cracker dealing with all intruders, fact. Prove me otherwise.
While i have facts buddy you only have a word Wrong and you are swinging it around and thinking it matters.

Nope, wrong again as per, lol.
The SH crew were involved in an incident, therefore, since they were seen and recognised, they got bounties.
Ace was responsible for nothing in Alabasta, therefore, no Bounty increase. He did nothing notable in Alabsta. Not like he went to disturb the Shichibukai system.

He was involved, he stopped a marine captain(or whatever rank Smoker had at that time) from catching the pirates. That is more notable than what the other half of Strawhats did in Dressrosa.

Good attempt though, lol. You're literally the only person who thinks the WG actually know who Chopper is, lol.

If they know who took out mr 1 while they cant possibly know it, due to facts showing that no one saw them fighting, then they for sure know who Chopper is since their elite combatant Kumadori who fought him, literally saw him transform.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It is a double standard. Here are some of your statements regarding this.
"Lol, no, Usopp didn't defeat anyone. "
"Usopp gaining a 170m bounty increase despite defeating no one."
And in your last reply you say they only know the result. Then in your previous reply regarding this you say they dont know it was Usopp while plenty of people saw him but they do know it was Zoro who took out mr 1 even tho nobody saw him.
Flawless system, in your dreams.

Lol, they only know Usopp was involved, that's a fact and yet he received a 170m increase. Nothing to do with strength.

He was not a Schichibukai, he was not doing it on behalf on WG. Lafitte bought him time to get the seat. Facts, buddy.

And you were wrong about Law getting a bounty for Rocky ports, lol.

Blackbeard is doing no different than Law did here, no bounty increases bud.

It was an incident, the Marines lost two Pacifistas. They were merely escaping from WCI as well and took out two commanders. Another contradiction.

Nope, wrong, lol.

Bounty increase take a day.

It took over 4 days before they got a bounty increase.

They only got one for Dressrosa, not Sabaody, lol.

It's a fallacy to say otherwise.

Nothing is false here, its all facts. Prove me otherwise.
Katakuri wasnt involved with War of the best, fact. Prove me otherwise.
Katakuri wasnt involved with Impel Down, fact. Prove me otherwise.
Katakuri didnt destroy Enies Lobby, fact. Prove me otherwise.
Snack and Cracker dealing with all intruders, fact. Prove me otherwise.
While i have facts buddy you only have a word Wrong and you are swinging it around and thinking it matters.

There are ,many things that can be considered incidents.

Robin didn't partake in the war of the best and got a bounty, lol.

Many things Katakur could have done to earn a bounty.

Robin didn't even get a bounty update until she was involved in an incident 20 years later.

Like I said, you can name any character with a bounty and there's not one that hasn't been involved in incidents, lol. You're clearly wrong in this regard buddy.

He was involved, he stopped a marine captain(or whatever rank Smoker had at that time) from catching the pirates. That is more notable than what the other half of Strawhats did in Dressrosa.

Nope, it's no different to Sanji and Zoro who received no bounties. They were running away. That isn't an incident. lol.

If they know who took out mr 1 while they cant possibly know it, due to facts showing that no one saw them fighting, then they for sure know who Chopper is since their elite combatant Kumadori who fought him, literally saw him transform.

Ye, keep telling yourself that, lol. Known elite combatant with 50 beri. However, pretty sure it indicates that Bounty is really about strength, lol.

 

[M3J]

Hasn't it been made obvious that the bounties received aren't mostly about strength, but the danger they pose, as long as there's a good excuse for it (like Robin blowing up ships rather than being able to decipher Poneglyphs)?

 

[Shasha23]

Hasn't it been made obvious that the bounties received aren't mostly about strength, but the danger they pose, as long as there's a good excuse for it (like Robin blowing up ships rather than being able to decipher Poneglyphs)?

Robin never blew up any ships, that story was just a cover of why they gave her a bounty

 

[nik87]

As the Strawhats journey progressed they met stronger and stronger opponents and each with a higher bounty than the previous. It is funny to claim that bounty doesn't represent strength, all other factors included ofc, which are a minor part for the majority of characters. Just because we follow the story of 10 Strawhats and see everything they do and get involved in, it doesn't mean all other characters did the same and have the bounty for the same thing for what Strawhats have. As I said earlier, prove me otherwise, prove me that Katakuri did one single thing which Strawhats did on their journey. Not just Katakuri but tons of others characters.

Let's go chronologically. Alvida - 5mil bounty. Jango - 9mil bounty. Buggy - 15mil bounty. Kuro - 16mil bounty. Krieg - 17mil bounty. Arlong - 20mil bounty. Mr 2 - 32mil bounty. Sarquiss - 38mil bounty. Bellamy - 55mil bounty. Crocodile - 81mil bounty. Kuma - 296mil bounty. Moriah - 320mil bounty. Doflamingo - 340mil. Jack - 1bil bounty. Snack - 600mil bounty. Perospero - 700mil bounty. Cracker - 860mil bounty. Smoothie - 932mil bounty. Katakuri - 1.57bil bounty.
Maybe I didn't get the order right and there are 2 exceptions, Kuma being stronger than Moriah and Doflamingo stronger than Snack and Perospero but its normal since their bounties are frozen.

Anyway, bounties are spot on strength wise. They are all seasoned, established characters. Did a single one of them disappoint? Even majority of unestablished characters will fit here perfectly, there are exceptions of course but majority fits without problems.
How many of these characters were involved with anything that Strawhats were involved in, to get their bounties? The answer is 0.

 

[M3J]

Robin never blew up any ships, that story was just a cover of why they gave her a bounty

Er, that's just what I said.

As the Strawhats journey progressed they met stronger and stronger opponents and each with a higher bounty than the previous. It is funny to claim that bounty doesn't represent strength, all other factors included ofc, which are a minor part for the majority of characters. Just because we follow the story of 10 Strawhats and see everything they do and get involved in, it doesn't mean all other characters did the same and have the bounty for the same thing for what Strawhats have. As I said earlier, prove me otherwise, prove me that Katakuri did one single thing which Strawhats did on their journey. Not just Katakuri but tons of others characters.

Let's go chronologically. Alvida - 5mil bounty. Jango - 9mil bounty. Buggy - 15mil bounty. Kuro - 16mil bounty. Krieg - 17mil bounty. Arlong - 20mil bounty. Mr 2 - 32mil bounty. Sarquiss - 38mil bounty. Bellamy - 55mil bounty. Crocodile - 81mil bounty. Kuma - 296mil bounty. Moriah - 320mil bounty. Doflamingo - 340mil. Jack - 1bil bounty. Snack - 600mil bounty. Perospero - 700mil bounty. Cracker - 860mil bounty. Smoothie - 932mil bounty. Katakuri - 1.57bil bounty.
Maybe I didn't get the order right and there are 2 exceptions, Kuma being stronger than Moriah and Doflamingo stronger than Snack and Perospero but its normal since their bounties are frozen.

Anyway, bounties are spot on strength wise. They are all seasoned, established characters. Did a single one of them disappoint? Even majority of unestablished characters will fit here perfectly, there are exceptions of course but majority fits without problems.
How many of these characters were involved with anything that Strawhats were involved in, to get their bounties? The answer is 0.

Bounty only looks like it mainly represents strength because in most cases, strength is needed to accomplish something that got the person their bounty. Luffy didn't need strength to beat Nezumi when he first got his bounty, and he didn't need strength to get his bounty to 1.5 billion. All he needed for the latter was to cause havoc and get off the territory alive, which he did. He could have escaped from Katakuri without beating him, and the Big Mom pirates would still think he beat Katakuri as escaping otherwise would have been impossible. Luffy also didn't have to technically be strong to beat Lucci, he could have used underhanded ways to win despite being weak and still get his bounty up significantly because he broke into Enies Lobby and took back a criminal.

What if one of the characters were weak when they got their last bounty, but it was high because of the damage they caused and the amount of people they hurt or killed? Someone with similar power to Crocodile could be very weak but still get a high bounty because their ability could cause destruction and hurt so many people in one go.

Bellamy was disappointing. Despite having higher bounty than Luffy (who had 30 million at the right, right?), Luffy beat him with ONE punch, easily.

 

[nik87]

@M3J Despite all i wrote and all characters i listed, you stick to unestablished main character.

What if one of the characters were weak when they got their last bounty, but it was high because of the damage they caused and the amount of people they hurt or killed?

What if this, what if that... Of all those i listed, can you provide any what if scenario?
Crocodile's strength at the moment of his introduction is spot on in that list. Stronger than all previous ones and weaker than all those after.

Bellamy was disappointing. Despite having a higher bounty than Luffy (who had 30 million at the right, right?), Luffy beat him with ONE punch, easily.

Bellamy's strength is spot on as well. He is stronger than all the previous ones and weaker than those after him. Again you compare him with MC, still spot on. Luffy had 100mil at that moment.

You are roleplaying, positioning yourself as a character in a world like if One Piece would be for real and you overthink it. You are a reader from the real world and bounties are information for you so you can know what strength you can expect from those characters. As I said before, none of them disappointed, spot on.
You will never know real-world-OP reasons for their bounties, you only get to know their strength.

 

[M3J]

@M3J Despite all i wrote and all characters i listed, you stick to unestablished main character.


What if this, what if that... Of all those i listed, can you provide any what if scenario?
Crocodile's strength at the moment of his introduction is spot on in that list. Stronger than all previous ones and weaker than all those after.

Bellamy's strength is spot on as well. He is stronger than all the previous ones and weaker than those after him. Again you compare him with MC, still spot on. Luffy had 100mil at that moment.

You are roleplaying, positioning yourself as a character in a world like if One Piece would be for real and you overthink it. You are a reader from the real world and bounties are information for you so you can know what strength you can expect from those characters. As I said before, none of them disappointed, spot on.
You will never know real-world-OP reasons for their bounties, you only get to know their strength.

Unestablished main character? How are the Straw Hats unestablished?

I can provide what-if scenarios, but there's no point. All we know is that they have bounties for one reason or another. We have no idea if Crocodile was weaker than the enemies who came after him, especially with his sand sand abilities.

Bellamy does not seem to be that much stronger than the previous ones. Pretty sure Crocodile could beat him, as well as even Kuro and Krieg. Bellamy's bounty is too much, especially when Luffy's previous enemies put up more of a challenge.

Bounties are information from which I can gather how dangerous the criminals are, not necessarily their strength. At least, not anymore since Luffy one-shot Bellamy, Kidd's bounty being higher than Luffy's was said due to the destruction he caused wherever he went. Some of the bounties have been disappointing.

 

[nik87]

Unestablished main character? How are the Straw Hats unestablished?

C'mon, work with me here, we are reading the same thing. How are these fresh wannabe pirates established? They just were sailing for less than a year when they reached Sabaody while the opponents they met underway are on the scene for decades. They haven't tested their strength against the world. Their bounty constantly changes unlike for the other characters they meet. They are constantly pulling power-ups. They cannot be used as examples to gauge the strength.
We only know their limits for short periods and at certain times. Limit before water 7, boom a power-up, limit just increased. Limit at Sabaody, boom a time skip, limit just increased. Limit at Dressrosa, boom a new gear, limit just increased...

Bellamy does not seem to be that much stronger than the previous ones. Pretty sure Crocodile could beat him,

Bellamy's and Crocodile's bounty is a good gauge of strength, even tho Bellamy came after in the timeline. Accurate on spot. Crocodile at moment of his introduction has a proper bounty and did not put a better fight than those who came after him with higher bounties.

I can see that we cant get to an agreement here. To each his own. Everyone can decide for themselves what bounty represents.

 

[BigBadDogg]

C'mon, work with me here, we are reading the same thing. How are these fresh wannabe pirates established? They just were sailing for less than a year when they reached Sabaody while the opponents they met underway are on the scene for decades. They haven't tested their strength against the world. Their bounty constantly changes unlike for the other characters they meet. They are constantly pulling power-ups. They cannot be used as examples to gauge the strength.
We only know their limits for short periods and at certain times. Limit before water 7, boom a power-up, limit just increased. Limit at Sabaody, boom a time skip, limit just increased. Limit at Dressrosa, boom a new gear, limit just increased...


Bellamy's and Crocodile's bounty is a good gauge of strength, even tho Bellamy came after in the timeline. Accurate on spot. Crocodile at moment of his introduction has a proper bounty and did not put a better fight than those who came after him with higher bounties.

I can see that we cant get to an agreement here. To each his own. Everyone can decide for themselves what bounty represents.

I am pretty sure that Crocodile can beat Moriah and Arlong could beat Bellamy. It's the danger that they pose, not mainly their strength that decides their bounties. For instance, if Luffy was known to be Draagon's son as soon as he set sail, what bounty do you think he would have had? I am pretty sure it would have been closer to Robin's at age 8, not because of his current strength, but his relation to Dragon and the potential power he could achieve.

 

[nik87]

I am pretty sure that Crocodile can beat Moriah and Arlong could beat Bellamy.

You know that Luffy was fighting Moriah with his gear 2 and gear 3 while he had none of those against Crocodile? Moriah by far put a better fight. Bellamy vs Arlong could be debatable, just because Luffy took Bellamy out with 1 punch doesn't make him weaker than Arlong. In the end, Arlong was taken out by 1 strong hit as well.
I listed plenty of seasoned, established characters chronologically for which the bounty is an accurate measurement of strength. Some may not see it that way, obviously, too each his own.

 

[M3J]

C'mon, work with me here, we are reading the same thing. How are these fresh wannabe pirates established? They just were sailing for less than a year when they reached Sabaody while the opponents they met underway are on the scene for decades. They haven't tested their strength against the world. Their bounty constantly changes unlike for the other characters they meet. They are constantly pulling power-ups. They cannot be used as examples to gauge the strength.
We only know their limits for short periods and at certain times. Limit before water 7, boom a power-up, limit just increased. Limit at Sabaody, boom a time skip, limit just increased. Limit at Dressrosa, boom a new gear, limit just increased...


Bellamy's and Crocodile's bounty is a good gauge of strength, even tho Bellamy came after in the timeline. Accurate on spot. Crocodile at moment of his introduction has a proper bounty and did not put a better fight than those who came after him with higher bounties.

I can see that we cant get to an agreement here. To each his own. Everyone can decide for themselves what bounty represents.

Kidd, Law, Bege, and etc are established for one reason or another. We know why Kidd's bounty was higher than the other Supernovas. We don't know how low-key the other pirates were, or almost anything else about them. Bege was part of a mafia for a while until he decided to become a pirate. And I don't really remember others' backgrounds, except for Law's.

Unless you're talking about the Straw Hats as fresh wannabe pirates.


No, Bellamy and Crocodile's bounties are not good gauges of strength. Bellamy's bounty seems to be too high while Crocodile's bounty seems to be too low and weird that he became a shichibukai at such low bounty... unless he did something drastic to prove himself a worthy shichibukai like Blackbeard and Law did. Crocodile put on a better fight than Bellamy, arguably better than Enel, and close to Moriah's. Crocodile was also the only one who managed to beat Luffy twice and nearly killed him on the first try.

But to be honest, perhaps Crocodile's bounty would have been way higher if he didn't become a shichibukai.

You know that Luffy was fighting Moriah with his gear 2 and gear 3 while he had none of those against Crocodile? Moriah by far put a better fight. Bellamy vs Arlong could be debatable, just because Luffy took Bellamy out with 1 punch doesn't make him weaker than Arlong. In the end, Arlong was taken out by 1 strong hit as well.
I listed plenty of seasoned, established characters chronologically for which the bounty is an accurate measurement of strength. Some may not see it that way, obviously, too each his own.

Luffy had to use water/blood to beat Crocodile, otherwise Crocodile beat him twice. Luffy was lucky enough that a drop of water landed in his mouth and revived him. Also seems that while Crocodile didn't lose to Doflamingo when they fought, Moriah was being walloped by Doflamingo after the war.

Arlong took multiple hits, Bellamy only took one. not comparable.

 

[nik87]

Kidd, Law, Bege, and etc are established for one reason or another. We know why Kidd's bounty was higher than the other Supernovas. We don't know how low-key the other pirates were, or almost anything else about them. Bege was part of a mafia for a while until he decided to become a pirate. And I don't really remember others' backgrounds, except for Law's.
Unless you're talking about the Straw Hats as fresh wannabe pirates.

They are all rookies, fresh pirates who just reached Sabaody. There are exceptions but still many will fit into the measurement of strength by the bounty.

No, Bellamy and Crocodile's bounties are not good gauges of strength. Bellamy's bounty seems to be too high while Crocodile's bounty seems to be too low and weird that he became a shichibukai at such low bounty... unless he did something drastic to prove himself a worthy shichibukai like Blackbeard and Law did. Crocodile put on a better fight than Bellamy, arguably better than Enel, and close to Moriah's. Crocodile was also the only one who managed to beat Luffy twice and nearly killed him on the first try.

I think the bounties here are just fine. Bellamy has a lower bounty than Crocodile and is weaker than him. Does Croc deserve higher bounty? Absolutely. I already said that Shichibukais have frozen bounties and they would deserve more. Still, its accurate measurement compared to opponents with higher bounties who came after Croc. Both Croc and Enel relied a lot on their logia fruits when Luffy fought them and Enel's is far more dangerous, he was just unlucky to fight a rubber man on who his logia fruit has no effect whatsoever. I would'nt put Crocodile from Alabasta above Enel, not even close.
Alabasta Crocodile close to Moriah? Gear 2 and gear 3 Luffy is worlds away from Alabasta Luffy. Moriah put a far better fight.

Luffy had to use water/blood to beat Crocodile, otherwise Crocodile beat him twice. Luffy was lucky enough that a drop of water landed in his mouth and revived him. Also seems that while Crocodile didn't lose to Doflamingo when they fought, Moriah was being walloped by Doflamingo after the war.
Arlong took multiple hits, Bellamy only took one. not comparable.

That's correct and its obvious that Marineford Croc is quite stronger than Alabasta Croc. I am comparing their bounties when they first met Luffy. Next time we see Croc he will be stronger than Marineford Croc. Bounty is not updated but its spot on in Alabasta when you compare it with those after with higher bounties.
Just because Luffy took out Bellamy in one hit, it doesnt make him weaker than Arlong. Luffy took out post-time-skip Bellamy in one hit as well and its obvious how much stronger he is than Arlong.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Arlong - 20mil bounty.

Lol.

Nami had a bounty of 16m and now a bounty of 66m.

She's nowhere as powerful as Arlong even with a bounty 3x higher than Arlong's.

Hell, Zoro with a bounty of 60m was powerful enough to defeat Daz Bones and lift a building.

Nami with a 66m Bounty is apparently stronger than Zoro pre-skip? She wouldn't be able to even defeat the opponents Zoro did nor would she be able to replicate his feats of strength at that time.

What a farce buddy.

 

[nik87]

Nami had a bounty of 16m and now a bounty of 66m.

You forgot your others straws - Robin, Chopper, Usopp, Urogue...

Nami with a 66m Bounty is apparently stronger than Zoro pre-skip? She wouldn't be able to even defeat the opponents Zoro did nor would she be able to replicate his feats of strength at that time.

Your logic amazes me.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You forgot your others straws - Robin, Chopper, Usopp, Urogue...


Your logic amazes me.

As does yours, truly astounding.

By your absurd logic, Sanji is only as strong as Luffy was pre-skip since he has a 300m bounty which Luffy had before the time-skip despite lacking Haki and all that training which Sanji currently has now.

 

[nik87]

By your absurd logic

My logic is just fine, its not my problem you dont understand it and single things out.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

My logic is just fine, its not my problem you dont understand it and single things out.

You say Bounty = Strength Level.

1. That suggests that Nami with a Bounty of 66 Million is stronger than Zoro when he fought Daz Bones and lifted buildings casually.
2. That suggests that Zoro and Sanji are only slightly stronger than Luffy was pre-skip when he had a 300m Bounty.
3. That suggests that Robin who originally had a bounty of 79m at the age of 8 years old had been at the same level of strength for 20 years; incredible logic really.
4. That suggests that Sanji who had a bounty of 77m was weaker than Robin who had a bounty of 79m at the age of 8; an 8 year old Robin is stronger than Sanji apparently.

Indeed, your logic here is as accurate as ever.

 

[nik87]

Indeed, your logic here is as accurate as ever.

My logic also says that there are exceptions, that I don't use unestablished characters and minorities as a rule for the entire world.
My logic is perfectly fine, you are the one whos failing to understand it and single things out without taking other parts into consideration. My logic doesnt compare apples and oranges like you do.
The world of One Piece isnt all black and white if you didnt notice so far. Flawless systems exists only in your opinion.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Lol.

Nami had a bounty of 16m and now a bounty of 66m.

She's nowhere as powerful as Arlong even with a bounty 3x higher than Arlong's.

Hell, Zoro with a bounty of 60m was powerful enough to defeat Daz Bones and lift a building.

Nami with a 66m Bounty is apparently stronger than Zoro pre-skip? She wouldn't be able to even defeat the opponents Zoro did nor would she be able to replicate his feats of strength at that time.

What a farce buddy.

Huh, maybe Nami beating Arabasta Daz Bones is debateable, but she can certainly fry the likes of Ohm and burn away Zombie Ryuma.