Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

Who will be Sanji's main opponent during the Raid on Onigashima?


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Franz

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You can call it stupid all you want, it's your opinion, but you can't deny the fact that Sanji was one of the MVPs who saved the Straw Hats, as well as countless of others.
And to do so he condemned the Vinsmoke and the Pirates of the Sun. Cool.

Nah, just you missing a lot of points if you didn't see their development out of the arc at all especially when they WILLING (Emphasizing, not yelling) choose to come back to help out when they could have just been gone and leave them all to die. No way they are one-dimensional like your saying especially Reiju XD.
Reiju is the only one to be characterized, although in the end it is not all this masterpiece.

The others merely make sense of their essence by helping Sanji, but nothing changes at all, Sanji continues to be a failure for them, as evidenced by the fact that they dissing him because slow or the gift of the suit (more thing that Oda should never have done).

For the rest, they continue to be flat and one-dimensional.

The cake fulfilled it's purpose
No. Textual words "He had to make her faint." And it did not happen. So he failed.

Fortunately actually. You really need to stop taking this so seriously
And who is tanking so seriously ?


Why is that farfetched? Oda plans long term, you don't think he has shown that many times?
He actually declared himself to improvise a lot of things .....
Where he got the love of cooking?
From Zeff
There were holes and it was filled.
No.


So how did he got across? Why didn't Sanji never mention his background more at all?
Because Oda did not have the Vinsmoke in mind at the time, of course.



Sorry your too simple-minded to understand that ;P.
You do not need to be smart.
Just have a minimum of critical spirit.
And knowledge of the manga.
Lol, then talk that on Youtube
Ohhhhhhhhhh, the youtubers. Already, excellent source ....

There is no need to defend Oda by the sword, eh.

Like all human beings makes mistakes.

If you liked Sanji's management of WCI and the VInsmoke well, but many did not like it, and I would say they have good reasons for doing so.

I've read the manga for more than ten years, so I'll have the right to criticize when something does not work for me?

Or is it a little bit too difficult to understand?

If you then bring up how good and insuperable Oda is, then let's try the absurd. Shonen is good at the average of the authors, but he also has his flaws, he admits that for him the consistency is not important and that often inseriesce in the manga what he has in mind at the moment .......
 

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And to do so he condemned the Vinsmoke and the Pirates of the Sun. Cool.


Reiju is the only one to be characterized, although in the end it is not all this masterpiece.

The others merely make sense of their essence by helping Sanji, but nothing changes at all, Sanji continues to be a failure for them, as evidenced by the fact that they dissing him because slow or the gift of the suit (more thing that Oda should never have done).

For the rest, they continue to be flat and one-dimensional.


No. Textual words "He had to make her faint." And it did not happen. So he failed.


And who is tanking so seriously ?



He actually declared himself to improvise a lot of things .....

From Zeff

No.



Because Oda did not have the Vinsmoke in mind at the time, of course.




You do not need to be smart.
Just have a minimum of critical spirit.
And knowledge of the manga.

Ohhhhhhhhhh, the youtubers. Already, excellent source ....

There is no need to defend Oda by the sword, eh.

Like all human beings makes mistakes.

If you liked Sanji's management of WCI and the VInsmoke well, but many did not like it, and I would say they have good reasons for doing so.

I've read the manga for more than ten years, so I'll have the right to criticize when something does not work for me?

Or is it a little bit too difficult to understand?

If you then bring up how good and insuperable Oda is, then let's try the absurd. Shonen is good at the average of the authors, but he also has his flaws, he admits that for him the consistency is not important and that often inseriesce in the manga what he has in mind at the moment .......
So you admit that if you help someone in real life, but they go back still despite not needing their help or nothing you can do to stop it by their own will, it's your fault? If so, I guess your at fault for a lot of things of helping others, but didn't work to stop them. Stop blindly not understanding and reread the arc on what was it for them on why they came back.

I get that, but the others still got characterized and will return, so won't be the end of the Vinsmokes coming back in the future. Also the 'slow' thing was just Niji messing with him, we all know he is faster than he looks and he was more concern looking at Luffy's well-being than his own. That doesn't make him slow. That's like saying the same thing as others pointed out on how Zoro even with Haki was slowed to dodged the nails, but use 'excuse' he need to tank for Luffy and O-tama when Luffy would be find blocking it and Zoro could use Haki about it since he is facing one opponent compare to Sanji facing a whole group of high tier fighters around.

Trust, me, they aren't as they seem especially Reiju and they will return for more their character later on.

Yeah, it did make her faint. Did you not see the dream sequence and her with love hearts in her eyes similar to Capone? It did knock her out for few hours, but it won't put her down forever, so your wrong again in that argument.

Kinda you as you continue to debate your right on your arguments when so far you haven't prove things on your side.

In small moments, but not long-term plans as he has many long-term plans. Also where he said he does that in improvise?

I was being rhetorical, but yeah and also from his Mother too as those are along with Reiju (secretly) to support his dreams, so it been that way for him since the beginning.

Yes it was. The holes been filled man. Can't countered this.

He kinda did as Sanji threw hints about being from another Blue early, so pretty sure he got the family thing thought out for some time and soon waiting patiently to use it in an arc.

You don't have much knowledge though as you been ignoring the factual stuff in our talks along with others. So you need to work on that and reread OP on our facts.

I never said Oda was perfection. I am sure he had mistakes, but this one is stretching and minor with others not getting the full depth of the arc and judging more of wanting more fights and such.

Also "Many didn't like it". There is no many. Only minority of you guys with DBZ fighting logic thinking what Sanji did was pointless without fighting despite his situation was the more logical situation of all. It's more your's and others's for judging merely for that and also his character on how he was working.

You have the right to criticize, but we also have the right to counter your statement if it's judging the wrong reasons and wanting it more your way though. Not hard for me and others to understand, but what about you?

I understand certain and rare moments certain things doesn't make sense. Don't get me wrong, but they are very minor and your stretching for this one. He made the Reverie Arc afterwards and that was the most hype arc around and writing, so to say he going down in writing is ignorant than factual. Which is why I said check on Joy Boy's, Mr. Morj's, and Craftsdwarf's channels on this subject and they will explain to you why it make sense instead thinking things should be more your way and thoughts which few/some of you failed to understand the WCI arc over it.
 

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And to do so he condemned the Vinsmoke and the Pirates of the Sun. Cool.
Without Sanji, the Vinsmokes would have already been dead. Without Sanji, the Sun Pirates would have likely been dead too trying to save Jinbei, Nami, and others, who surely would have been dead. Why not blame LUffy for forcing others to wait for him instead of getting away?
 

Franz

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Without Sanji, the Vinsmokes would have already been dead
And here we are at absurd levels, as Sanji agrees to the savvy who has always treated him as a dregs endangering himself and others ....

But all the mess made to save them, does it leave them again to certain death?

What a useless arc ....
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
So you admit that if you help someone in real life, but they go back still despite not needing their help or nothing you can do to stop it by their own will, it's your fault?
Certainly it's his fault for putting Big Mom back into force .....


I get that, but the others still got characterized and will return, so won't be the end of the Vinsmokes coming back in the future.
But I hope not at this point.


Yeah, it did make her faint. Did you not see the dream sequence and her with love hearts in her eyes similar to Capone?
I do not think she fainted, indeed it was all perky to sing while the crew risked the massacre ....

Kinda you as you continue to debate your right on your arguments when so far you haven't prove things on your side.
Er, yes, just read the manga and the interviews.

Also where he said he does that in improvise?
Bibi was created as an antagonist and then made good during construction (and therefore the whole Alabasta subplot was clearly invented as well). the supernovae invented at the moment on the advice of the editor ..... should I continue?

I was being rhetorical, but yeah and also from his Mother too as those are along with Reiju (secretly) to support his dreams, so it been that way for him since the beginning.
Actually, Sanji's love for the kitchen was originally due to his fasting experience with Zeff .....

He kinda did as Sanji threw hints about being from another Blue early, so pretty sure he got the family thing thought out for some time and soon waiting patiently to use it in an arc.
Where ?
 

King Moe

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And here we are at absurd levels, as Sanji agrees to the savvy who has always treated him as a dregs endangering himself and others ....

But all the mess made to save them, does it leave them again to certain death?

What a useless arc ....
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Certainly it's his fault for putting Big Mom back into force .....



But I hope not at this point.



I do not think she fainted, indeed it was all perky to sing while the crew risked the massacre ....


Er, yes, just read the manga and the interviews.


Bibi was created as an antagonist and then made good during construction (and therefore the whole Alabasta subplot was clearly invented as well). the supernovae invented at the moment on the advice of the editor ..... should I continue?


Actually, Sanji's love for the kitchen was originally due to his fasting experience with Zeff .....


Where ?
It's to prove the character development of them as they came back for Sanji who saved them. Sanji didn't want them come back and do these things, but he did them for him. He didn't lead anyone to his death, they choose to come back and stay behind and they are hardly going to die off anyway from this.

She was still a force already. Didn't you see her about to kill of the Strawhats if the cake didn't arrived? This was the better outcome than having Big Mom active 24/7 on killing them and using the cake to divert her methods until they escape. You can't counter this part dude.

What do you mean hope not? It's obvious they are returning as you know Oda with this type of outcomes. They be develop more and purpose with them. Oda isn't one to waste characters.

She did dream dude. You saw next chapter on how Perospero commenting Big Mom is awake or not while she continue to lay down and dream.

We have, but your taking out words from context and not using legit facts.

Oda said he planned Alabasta the way it was and while I do agree an advisor did tell him to insert Warlords, he still make them apart of the story perfectly that no one had a issue with at all. Oda is the type to make things make sense on stuff he adds to them and use them for future plot points, so not really a big issue your putting there. Your trying hard to say Oda has bad writing and planning when clearly he doesn't.

And also with his mother and learning how to cook for her sake since no one care for her except for him and Reiju (secretly).

You just prove my point you missed stuff in OP. Look back on Sanji's debut and upward. He put out hints along the way especially during the Nolan in Jaya and Skypia Arc. You have to look for hints carefully as they can mean something later on down the line. Get me?
 

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If they were truly captured or killed by Big Mom, then why wasn't that reported or shared? Makes no sense as Big Mom could lure Luffy back to save Jinbei since he was willing to endanger his life for Sanji, and she would actually be prepared this time.

Most of the complaints about Sanji have made no sense and just sounded like general whining due to dislike. Sanji's cake saved the crew and allowed them to get away, but somehow "iT dIdN'T kNoCk OuT bIg MoM lIkE hE pRoMiSeD!" Hell, no one is blaming Bege for not poisoning the cake when he had every chance to after Sanji got back on the Sunny. Or when Luffy decided to help Sanji rescue his family instead of leaving him or knocking him out so they could escape.

But then again, there actually were readers who thought Luffy stood a chance against Big Mom, so that says it all.
 

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This is still going on? I dropped out of it after realizing Ice King just has a different concept of Sanji than what's in the Manga. I mean, for example he thinks Sanji's love for cooking comes from his fasting experience with Zeff despite the fact that Sanji worked in a kitchen before and was dreaming about the holy grail of all cooks, the All Blue.

To maybe end this, from vol 90 SBS:


Reader :Next time when Big Mom want a wedding cake and Streußen is ill (again and Sanji not there), what will they do? They can't make the cake like that...

Oda :That's right! I worry about them too, maybe they can try running away? Though the New World is dangerous... The family and citizens do depend on the name "Big Mom" for protection, so even though things could get way worse (if BM loses it), they stay with her. Maybe that's just how things go if you live among "powerful people"!
So yeah, Oda confirms Sanji's cake was the real shit. If they can't replicate it, they are fucked.

Oda also helped some readers with realizing how Caesar is trash in the vol 89 SBS. Seems like we will get this on a regular basis now since there are so many people that fail to grasp certain characters.

With Sanji, I can somewhat guess where that is coming from. Back in the day, when we were kids, we all liked Luffy the most so on the school playground the topic was "Zoro or Sanji" because these were the most appealing characters to young boys - Nami is a woman and Usopp is a coward and the others didn't even exist back then (well, Chopper and Robin did for japanese people)

We were also pre-socialized by Dragon Ball, which in the end is all about power, no matter if it's the soft Gohan or the proud Vegeta, all that matters is power to defeat foe xy. So we had our DBZ glasses on and viewed both Zoro and Sanji as these cool fighter type characters that mainly matter for their fighting power, which is somewhat true for Zoro but never has been for Sanji. As Sanji said himself he is a cook and pirate. Not a fighter and a pirate.

This makes room for a vastly different character - Sanji is kind and emotional, somewhat atypical in certain aspects from the other male characters. The themes going on in WCI have been going on since the early days of One Piece. Sanji having an adopted father was key during Baratie arc and Sanji wasn't partnered vs Mr 2 and with the Okama later for no reason either.

The comparison between Zoro and Sanji is there but that is because their characters are contrary to each other, not because they are rivaling in fighting strenght.

I believe this is also how the whole idea of a monster trio came from - Simply because those that have been with the series from the start had these ideas of a DBZ style strenght triumvirate.

So now Sanji needs to be this and Sanji needs to be that. He essentially proved that he is the best cook in the world and people still don't like him because he doesn't "kick ass".

In my opinion, he doesn't need anything. Let Sanji be Sanji because he is a great Sanji.
 

Franz

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And also with his mother and learning how to cook for her sake since no one care for her except for him and Reiju (secretly).
Addition not necessary and if you allow me, pathetic over every way.

A bit like the whole VInsmoke thing.
 

King Moe

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This is still going on? I dropped out of it after realizing Ice King just has a different concept of Sanji than what's in the Manga. I mean, for example he thinks Sanji's love for cooking comes from his fasting experience with Zeff despite the fact that Sanji worked in a kitchen before and was dreaming about the holy grail of all cooks, the All Blue.

To maybe end this, from vol 90 SBS:




So yeah, Oda confirms Sanji's cake was the real shit. If they can't replicate it, they are fucked.

Oda also helped some readers with realizing how Caesar is trash in the vol 89 SBS. Seems like we will get this on a regular basis now since there are so many people that fail to grasp certain characters.

With Sanji, I can somewhat guess where that is coming from. Back in the day, when we were kids, we all liked Luffy the most so on the school playground the topic was "Zoro or Sanji" because these were the most appealing characters to young boys - Nami is a woman and Usopp is a coward and the others didn't even exist back then (well, Chopper and Robin did for japanese people)

We were also pre-socialized by Dragon Ball, which in the end is all about power, no matter if it's the soft Gohan or the proud Vegeta, all that matters is power to defeat foe xy. So we had our DBZ glasses on and viewed both Zoro and Sanji as these cool fighter type characters that mainly matter for their fighting power, which is somewhat true for Zoro but never has been for Sanji. As Sanji said himself he is a cook and pirate. Not a fighter and a pirate.

This makes room for a vastly different character - Sanji is kind and emotional, somewhat atypical in certain aspects from the other male characters. The themes going on in WCI have been going on since the early days of One Piece. Sanji having an adopted father was key during Baratie arc and Sanji wasn't partnered vs Mr 2 and with the Okama later for no reason either.

The comparison between Zoro and Sanji is there but that is because their characters are contrary to each other, not because they are rivaling in fighting strenght.

I believe this is also how the whole idea of a monster trio came from - Simply because those that have been with the series from the start had these ideas of a DBZ style strenght triumvirate.

So now Sanji needs to be this and Sanji needs to be that. He essentially proved that he is the best cook in the world and people still don't like him because he doesn't "kick ass".

In my opinion, he doesn't need anything. Let Sanji be Sanji because he is a great Sanji.
True, fighting is secondary for him, not main purpose, but he will still keep his fighting skills apparent while achieving his dream especially the ongoing rivalry with Zoro with the latest cover Chapter. Hope to see some more combat feats in Wano since it seems to be all out war around.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Addition not necessary and if you allow me, pathetic over every way.

A bit like the whole VInsmoke thing.
I don't get what your saying. Are you saying it didn't derived his love of cooking from there cause it truly did.
 

Franz

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True, fighting is secondary for him, not main purpose, but he will still keep his fighting skills apparent while achieving his dream especially the ongoing rivalry with Zoro with the latest cover Chapter. Hope to see some more combat feats in Wano since it seems to be all out war around.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


I don't get what your saying. Are you saying it didn't derived his love of cooking from there cause it truly did.
But exactly how does Sanji's mother affect the character? We see the training experience of Sanji in volume 7, period.

There was no need to add another that adds nothing to the character.

But then, with the flashback of Sanji 2.0 I had the impression that Oda tried to create something sad, moving ..... but without success.

With the other One Piece flashbacks never happened to me, this is the only one who left me nothing ... it seems almost written by someone who imitates Oda's style.

For the cake, Sanji had textually said that the cake would stretch Big Mom and save his friends. He did not stretch out Big Mom (which was regenerated after two minutes) and did not save his friends (Jimbe and co are still there), so Sanji also failed as a cook. And I refuse to think that in the 100 recipes it is not there is a powerful sweet tranquilizer (what's going on, try to gorge yourself with sweet food and you'll see what a sleep that comes)

The way he saves his friends, diverting Big Mom's attention. It is an indirect rescue, and therefore less important than a, chennesò, Zoro and Sanji who are fighting in front of Kuma. Because no one has ever told Chichi that he saved the Earth from Cell just because he gave birth to Gohan, although it is actually an indispensable prerequisite.

What is missing is the merit of Sanji in the removal, because a cake of earth with the scent of Wedding Cake would have obtained the same result. And when it got to that, Big Mom that eats, it failed as mentioned above.
 

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But exactly how does Sanji's mother affect the character? We see the training experience of Sanji in volume 7, period.

There was no need to add another that adds nothing to the character.

But then, with the flashback of Sanji 2.0 I had the impression that Oda tried to create something sad, moving ..... but without success.

With the other One Piece flashbacks never happened to me, this is the only one who left me nothing ... it seems almost written by someone who imitates Oda's style.

For the cake, Sanji had textually said that the cake would stretch Big Mom and save his friends. He did not stretch out Big Mom (which was regenerated after two minutes) and did not save his friends (Jimbe and co are still there), so Sanji also failed as a cook. And I refuse to think that in the 100 recipes it is not there is a powerful sweet tranquilizer (what's going on, try to gorge yourself with sweet food and you'll see what a sleep that comes)

The way he saves his friends, diverting Big Mom's attention. It is an indirect rescue, and therefore less important than a, chennesò, Zoro and Sanji who are fighting in front of Kuma. Because no one has ever told Chichi that he saved the Earth from Cell just because he gave birth to Gohan, although it is actually an indispensable prerequisite.

What is missing is the merit of Sanji in the removal, because a cake of earth with the scent of Wedding Cake would have obtained the same result. And when it got to that, Big Mom that eats, it failed as mentioned above.
Dude, it put more layers on it that increase him working harder and it does affect him as shown with the backstory. That time, Oda didn't want to give out everything cause he is making it for later on down the line. You should really know what is foreshadowing or saving things for later really.

It does. Again, Ice, your losing this fight the backstory and arc have major importance. I told you again, read the listed Youtubers who did review of the arc fully to help you better understand. If your refusing to check them out, then your not judging them fairly at all. More thinking in your own desires on how it should be written and think it's 'bad'.

Nah, judging by the community, it was a success as everyone is feeling it and feel for Sanji more after having two sad backstories. Just you alone are hating about it and refuse ot listen to others on their POV even when explaining to you right now. Again, learn to understand instead of acting out like this thinking it was 'all bad' or 'no one likes it'. That's all in your head, not the community especially on the majority side.

Maybe because your refusing to understand it out of your own ideals and issues that you think are 'good', but aren't good ideas. Again check the listed Youtubers I mention and check out their videos. It's not that hard and they make you understand why the arc was like that and why it is actually one of the best arcs in NW Saga.

It did stretch. Reread the chapters as she was out cold for a few hours. He never said it be forever she be out cold just enough to keep her away from them. He succeeded as a cook and will you stop saying "Oh, but Big Mom still came back in the end and doom the others'. Just because BM is out cold, her crew aren't. There are still high commanders especially Smoothe and Snack as Sweet Commanders (Former on the latter) in the Strawhats way. Jimbei, New Fishman Pirates, and Germa had to stay behind cause they wouldn't stop and give room for the Strawhats to escape. They CHOOSE (Emphasizing, not yelling) to stay behind, did Luffy, Sanji, and the others make them do that? No, they didn't. Your trying to put this on Sanji's fault when it's not. We seen allies before in many arcs risk their lives for the Strawhats even when they said not to or don't need it especially in that arc.

Big Mom coming at the end was bound to happen as the Cake wouldn't knock her out while they were still fighting and eventuality come in the end. They still wasn't worry even as she arrived as they know how to escape out of this, so this doesn't endanger them in the slightest and we will see them again as your trying to say they all die for nothing and by Strawhat's (especially Sanji's) fault when that isn't it at all. You got to reread the arc again or check the videos to understand this more.

Also the one with Sanji and Zoro vs Kuma along with DBZ excuse, doesn't apply to this especially to each other as that is your problem. DB works things differently with fighiting as the main answer while OP does it with not just fighting, but other answers as well. Your making this worse in your own mind by doing that, not Oda's or series' fault and this was actually a great arc.

If you think that, then you never understand Big Mom either in this arc. No ordinary cake just with similar or same scent will work. It will actually anger her more if the cake proves to be false as shown before how she is with food. She is VERY PICKY (Emphasizing, not yelling) and thus there is a reason why Sanji made it exactly how it is to subdue Big Mom. Also this been said by Oda in one of the SBS that the cake was very important and that if Sanji didn't do what he did, everyone would suffer, not just Strawhats alone.
 

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Dude, it put more layers on it that increase him working harder and it does affect him as shown with the backstory. That time, Oda didn't want to give out everything cause he is making it for later on down the line. You should really know what is foreshadowing or saving things for later really.
So you think you had in mind all the backstory of Sanji since volume 7? Wow ...........

It still does not answer the question. In what mood does the mother of Sanji or the family affect him ?
It does. Again, Ice, your losing this fight the backstory and arc have major importance. I told you again, read the listed Youtubers who did review of the arc fully to help you better understand. If your refusing to check them out, then your not judging them fairly at all. More thinking in your own desires on how it should be written and think it's 'bad'.
I do not see why I should be influenced by youtuber honestly ...
Nah, judging by the community, it was a success as everyone is feeling it and feel for Sanji more after having two sad backstories. Just you alone are hating about it and refuse ot listen to others on their POV even when explaining to you right now. Again, learn to understand instead of acting out like this thinking it was 'all bad' or 'no one likes it'. That's all in your head, not the community especially on the majority side.
Actually on many other forums and on reddit many agree with me, but hey if they say the youtuber ....

Maybe because your refusing to understand it out of your own ideals and issues that you think are 'good', but aren't good ideas. Again check the listed Youtubers I mention and check out their videos. It's not that hard and they make you understand why the arc was like that and why it is actually one of the best arcs in NW Saga.
Again with these youtubers. But who says they are the absolute reason?

Bah....

For the cake, I quote myself:


Sanji had textually said that the cake would stretch Big Mom and save his friends. He did not stretch out Big Mom (which was regenerated after two minutes) and did not save his friends (Jimbe and co are still there), so Sanji also failed as a cook. And I refuse to think that in the 100 recipes it is not there is a powerful sweet tranquilizer (what's going on, try to gorge yourself with sweet food and you'll see what a sleep that comes)

The way he saves his friends, diverting Big Mom's attention. It is an indirect rescue, and therefore less important than a Zoro and Sanji who are fighting in front of Kuma. Because no one has ever told Chichi that he saved the Earth from Cell just because he gave birth to Gohan, although it is actually an indispensable prerequisite.

What is missing is the merit of Sanji in the removal, because a cake of earth with the scent of Wedding Cake would have obtained the same result. And when it got to that, Big Mom that eats, it failed as mentioned above.
 

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What Sanji said may not have been 100% true, but the fact is that he did save the Straw Hats. Big Mom went from attacking the Sunny to chasing after Bege and the cake, and if it weren't for Sanji, the ship would have been destroyed, and the Straw Hats would likely have not survived.

Now, all we have to go by are assumptions, especially Jinbei and others being there or losing to Big Mom. And if I recall, Big Mom appeared way after the end, she didn't partake in the battle, but I could be wrong.
 

King Moe

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So you think you had in mind all the backstory of Sanji since volume 7? Wow ...........

It still does not answer the question. In what mood does the mother of Sanji or the family affect him ?

I do not see why I should be influenced by youtuber honestly ...

Actually on many other forums and on reddit many agree with me, but hey if they say the youtuber ....


Again with these youtubers. But who says they are the absolute reason?

Bah....

For the cake, I quote myself:
Oda plans thing for long term and been shown many times. You still don't get that? Have you been reading the series well?

It build more of his love of cooking and apart of it and how it got started was due to his mother who he cook for before she died.

Not really, but these Youtubers are fair critics and OP community agree with them especially majority, so there is a reason for it.

Many? Who? I seen those who agree that have likes from 1000-3000 or more. No one hated the arc as much as you said or didn't make sense as that just minority of you guys who I seen have double digit of likes at best and comments, but the comments are against you guys more. A lot of websites are against you guys for real.

Why spend more time about me saying that than actually go see them and judge for yourself, you know? Again your being real biased about it right now.

Also again, it took her out for a few hours as shown in the manga, your missing it on purpose. Never Sanji said she be out forever. Your acting the failure in not understanding as Sanji's cake serve it's purpose and gave them time. Also once more, your not making sense about Zoro and Sanji situation especially on Kuma and with DBZ comparison as DB has a different formula, your thinking it wrong like others do. Stop trying to win a argument you know your wrong on and just admit faults on your side.
 

nik87

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Not really, but these Youtubers are fair critics and OP community agree with them especially majority, so there is a reason for it.
Some are fair, some unfair critics. Some things they guess right, some things they guess wrong. Same thing like we have here in the forum.
Its not as easy as "majority agrees with them". If a Sanji fan makes a Sanji video, then its expected that community that watches such content is majorly made of Sanji fans. Zoro fans or Luffy fans or fans of any other character will rarely watch such content and then you get a false information about the feedback, as it appears that everyone agrees while the opposition either doesnt watch such content or doesnt bother to oppose it.

I seen those who agree that have likes from 1000-3000 or more. No one hated the arc as much as you said or didn't make sense as that just minority of you guys who I seen have double digit of likes at best and comments, but the comments are against you guys more. A lot of websites are against you guys for real.
It doesnt work like that, dont get blinded by the likes. If you want more likes check a forum with more traffic, you will easily find a triple-digit number of likes if thats what you value, which you shouldnt. Another thing, YouTube is one major platform where everyone gathers, there is barely any competition for YouTube while there are several OP forums and each forum takes a piece of those likes for itself, again, if thats what you are counting. All likes gathered at YouTube vs likes spread across several forums, you cant compare it like that.

Again your being real biased about it right now.
If you mean the opposition to Sanji having CoC, i think the critics are being fair because there is no information backing up that theory.
 

King Moe

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Some are fair, some unfair critics. Some things they guess right, some things they guess wrong. Same thing like we have here in the forum.
Its not as easy as "majority agrees with them". If a Sanji fan makes a Sanji video, then its expected that community that watches such content is majorly made of Sanji fans. Zoro fans or Luffy fans or fans of any other character will rarely watch such content and then you get a false information about the feedback, as it appears that everyone agrees while the opposition either doesnt watch such content or doesnt bother to oppose it.


It doesnt work like that, dont get blinded by the likes. If you want more likes check a forum with more traffic, you will easily find a triple-digit number of likes if thats what you value, which you shouldnt. Another thing, YouTube is one major platform where everyone gathers, there is barely any competition for YouTube while there are several OP forums and each forum takes a piece of those likes for itself, again, if thats what you are counting. All likes gathered at YouTube vs likes spread across several forums, you cant compare it like that.


If you mean the opposition to Sanji having CoC, i think the critics are being fair because there is no information backing up that theory.
Except the guys aren't really hardcore fans of Sanji. They are Dan's, but they are Dan's for others just the same. They are fair with their critic as it's not like they see him as perfection compare to Zoro fans who take it another lol. Like or not, the majority agree on the statements compare to the negative ones who cares more about fighting if anything as the issue for Sanji. I get his fights been lacking, but doesn't mean he gotten weaker or he at his limit which as shown as WCI, hardly likely at all.

Kinda does. Likes are with majority each time. So how can you tell a fandom like it or not if not by likes on many different websites along with comments? You disapprove it either.

What opposition of COC? We talking about something else here? Also again you ignoring other theories suggest otherwise by OP Youtubers. Don't say "Sanji fans only". It's more than that as other fans do see him having it too, so don't think that way base more by others assumption when majority kinda discuss it.
 

nik87

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Except the guys aren't really hardcore fans of Sanji.
That may be true but who do you think such videos attract? Mostly Sanji's fanbase, because they want to watch such content and feedback on such videos is always supportive. As I said, you will barely find any opposition to such ideas, no matter what they speak of.

I get his fights been lacking, but doesn't mean he gotten weaker or he at his limit which as shown as WCI, hardly likely at all.
I dont think that Sanji is weak, on the contrary, but Oda made him look so bad during WCI and ever since they left Sabaody. In fact, no Strawhat member had a good fight in New World except for Luffy.

Kinda does. Likes are with majority each time. So how can you tell a fandom like it or not if not by likes on many different websites along with comments? You disapprove it either.
It doesnt work like that. You think that those YouTubers who have 3000 likes on Youtube would have 3000 likes here on MangaHelpers? Has any post ever in the history of MangaHelpers had 3000 likes? Do you understand what i mean? You cant compare the likes from different platforms.


What opposition of COC? We talking about something else here? Also again you ignoring other theories suggest otherwise by OP Youtubers. Don't say "Sanji fans only". It's more than that as other fans do see him having it too, so don't think that way base more by others assumption when majority kinda discuss it.
Yeah, my bad, i didnt read the posts before so wasnt sure what you discussed and thats why i started with "If", my bad.
Can you name those YouTubers that you watch? I can tell you which YouTubers seem as fair critics to me. The most realistic and fair critic imo is Sawyer7mage and his chapter reviews are quite decent. BlackLeg Vinsmoke has some interesting theories, KingofLightning has entertaining live reactions and from what i saw he can guess some power levels right but hes so much off in some. All of them sometimes get things wrong, obvious things that already happened so no matter how much famous they are and how many likes they collect you have to take what they say with a grain of salt and do your own research.
If you want a fair criticism regarding Zoro and Sanji having CoC then watch Sawyer7mage's video about it, explains it better than me and you value YouTubers' opinions more anyway.
 
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shadow22

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sanji vs queen because of queen being an okama with technology (a mechanical arm ) as revealed in one piece 925 and sanjis history on okama island and him having a raid suit

and this would mean that zoro would face the king calamity who is a fire swordsman and zoro showed an interest in cutting fire

and the king calamity and queens relationship have been compared to sanji and zoros


or

sanji vs king calamity who wears all black and uses fire and is called the wildfire/fire and sanji uses fire in his attacks in fact you could say he is a fire specialist

maybe the king calamitys df is three legged Crow from East Asian Myth, known as the Sun Crow or YataGarasu. The myth says that once the Sun Crows almost set the Earth on fire

and sanji has multiple connections to the sun

https://megashadowdragon . tumblr . com/post/173809840152/sanji-will-use-the-raid-suit-after-he-gets

In it Kamen Rider Black RX is a cyborg whose motif is a black grasshopper, which mirrors Sanji’s own epithet as Black Leg. Grasshoppers are known for their incredible spring like leg muscles that allow them to jump incredible heights which allow them to launch themselves in the air to fly. However he also has another motif and that is based on the sun. Kamen Rider Black RX is a photosynthetic warrior who is powered by the sun.

Since Kamen Rider is powered by the sun, he can set his legs and fists on fire to increase the lethality of his kicks and punches, which is basically what Sanji’s Diable Jambe does


both sanjis experience as a child and duval was a reference to the man in the iron mask .

Though based on a real prisoner in the late 1600’s who Louis XIV forced to always wear a velvet mask to hide his identity and who was made to serve other prisoners, one of the most popular versions of the story is that of Alexandre Dumas, translated into a film in 1998. The prisoner, now shown wearing an iron mask, was Louis XIV’s twin brother

sanji had encountered the same fate as written in Alexandre DUMAS book (The Vicomte of Bragelonne: Ten Years Later). Declared dead for the country but condemned to wear a mask and to spend all his life in an horrible prison

and louis XIV was known as the sun king and kamen rider black rx is solar powered


and sanjis and zoros rivalry parallels inuarashi and nekomamushis rivalry ( and inuarashi is called the ruler of the day and has a group under him that reference the three musketeers by alexander dumas (a french story ) and sanji was dressed up as a musketeer and oda said in an sbs that sanji in the real world would be french




https://porche-chan.tumblr.com/post…is-an-imposing-figure?is_related_post=1#notes


both nekomamushi and inuarashi (zoro and sanjis counterparts) losing the precise limb that could incapacitate zoro and sanjis respective fighting styles

about inuarashis similarities to sanji I have to point out that inuarashi has a group that operates under his command called the
Inuarashi Musketeer Squad Among them are three minks known as the “Three Inuarashi Musketeers”,

The name of the squad is a reference to the novel The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas.

a french story and oda stated in an sbs that sanji would be french in the real world

plus the king calamity probably can fly and sanji specializes in aerial fights/strikes


and if sanji faces the king calamity zoro will fight the shogun who will be stronger than the king calamity

or king ate the tengu df
 

GodOfDestruction

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Marco will facr King if he comes to Wano. King loves torturing people and in Japanese folklore their are giant crows who love to kidnap and torture children. So kings DF may be a Crow Zoan. Add that with his Wildfire epitaph and we get two flaming birds going toe to toe with each other.

Marcos armament haki on his legs should protect him from kings sword.
 

shadow22

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ODa was an assistant to the author of rurouni kenshin .
The author was Nobuhiro Watsuki and one of his assistant was Eichiiro Oda.
Sometimes it goes unnoticed but Oda takes inspiration from Kenshin almost just as much as from Draonball, still Kenshin is a much lesser known manga, thus many little things goes unnoticed.
Near the beginning of the Jinchuu Arc of Rurouni Kenshin, Enishi tells Kenshin that he has ten large battleships (of the type deployed by Shishio in the previous arc) and threatens to use them to burn Tokyo to the ground if Kenshin backs out of their upcoming confrontation.


Now compare this with the infamous Buster Call

from One Piece, which is virtually the same thing.


It’s also entirely possible that this was intentional since Eiichiro Oda, author of One Piece, used to be Watsuki’s assistant before starting his own series.

rurouni kenshin took place during the meiji restoration which kenshins actions worked towards etc. and one of the things that led to the meiji restoration was opening japans borders and odens wish was to open the borders of wano country which represents japan(

The name is a pun, as “Wa no Kuni (和の国? literally meaning “Country of Harmony”)“ is used as a name for Japan.The fact that the swordsmen in this country are called "samurai” and its closed-door policy are also a reference to Japan in their Feudal era.)


opforum.net/threads/some-potential-insights-about-a-wano-arc.54085/


The Edo Period’s transition into the Meiji.

Without going into too much historical detail, here’s the jist of things. For hundreds (if not over a thousand) years Japan had remained completely isolated from the world, purposely. It defended its borders against the Chinese and the Mongols on a couple occasions, and became the isolated country that Oda seems to have alluded to within the One Piece world. There was a distinct pride about retaining Japanese as separate from the world.

For roughly 200 years Japan was within the “Edo Period” which was ruled by the Shoguns. Specifically, the Tokugawa Shogunate. Shoguns were de facto military leaders that ruled over thedaimyo (or feudal lords) and had power that was more material than the Emperor, who was just a figure head essentially. At the end of the era, there became a wave of change between the Shogunate and the Imperialists. The Imperialists were those who wanted to establish a new government, do away with the Feudal System, open its borders, and begin to interact with the world.

Thus the period of the Bakumatsu began. It was a war between the shogun’s army and the Imperialist Army. This civil war ended with the fall of the Shogun, and the Meiji Period then began. This new Meiji Era would be led by a single Emperor and the nation itself opened its ports to trade, commerce, and outside influence that would change the technology, habits, clothing, and lifestyle of the Japanese themselves.

The Isshin Shishi were the forces that fought to open the borders
As for the Imperials that helped to overthrow the Shogun, they were called the Imperialists and had a group known as the Ishin Shishi under them. Kenshin served the Ishin Shishi (and fought against the Shinsengumi, whom Saito was a member of, ). “
kenshin.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Ishin_Shishi
and kenshin himura was part of the ishin shishi
opforum.net/threads/chapter…iction-of-how-wanos-arc-might-be-setup.48759/

Meiji Restoration Period in Japan:
The Meiji Restoration (明治維新 Meiji Ishin?), was a chain of events that restored practical imperial rule to Japan in 1868 under Emperor Meiji. The foundation of this was through an "Alliance” between two leaders( from Chōshū and Satsuma domains) and this alliance happened because of an historical figure called…wait for it….Ryōma often regarded as the “father of the Imperial Japanese Navy” (I do know our guy is called Ryūma but there must be some implication here by Oda, right?).“


and the bakumatsu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakumatsu
it was basically a fight between the shogun side and the emperors side and the enemy in wano includes the shogun momonosuke means peach emperor


zoro has repeatedly stated in the series that he has wanted a fire sword and then kinemon has shown up with the fire sword technique and ability to cut fire
in rurouni kenshin shishio had a sword that was made in such a way that it could be called a fire sword and use fire techniques like combining a cut and flame or a fire tornado etc so the character who was based on shishio would also be able to use fire sword techniques and cut fire and be a better



and the futae no kiwami from kenshin sounds like one pieces hasshoken

kenshin.wikia.com/wiki/Futae_no_Kiwami

The Futae no Kiwami is a technique that focuses on allowing the full use of one’s strength and power to be fully utilized at its maximum output. Though its utilization can be used with all of the body, the use of it through extremities, especially the fist, is often the first part to start with when to be studied and mastered.

The Futae no Kiwami’s principle aspects come from understanding that all matter bears a level of resistance, and that a single blow’s impact is wasted upon meeting this resistance. From this, two blows are to be acted to fully transfer this impact. With the fist, the first blow, using the proximal interphalangeal joints of the hand, meets to absorb the object’s initial resistance. Then, with folding the hand immediately to switch over to the proximal phalanx knuckles, delivers the final strike to the weakened object; in addition, the two hits are to be delivered at nearly the same time, with a few milliseconds interval. The result is the complete destruction of the object, which has no more resistance to sustain itself and collapses into dust.

the futae no kiwami is a vibration attack which can produce shock waves from the double hit. just like how hasshoken is a vibration attack

onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Hasshoken

this fighting style allows the user to control vibrations around their limbs to generate shock waves . This shockwave is powerful enough to destroy a metal shield or defeat a strong man easily. Sai also claimed that these attacks are unblockable and reverberating, causing defenses to shatter

and given that sai knows it its quite possible that sanji can learn hasshoken in a reference to how sanosuke one of kenshins main group learn futae no kiwami ( and he can only do it in his arms ( well arm in his case) and is mainly a fist fighter sanji will only use hasshoken in his legs

and sanji had a habit of facing off against opponents with high defensive capabilities/defensive oriented fighters (or martial artists ) like pearl, jabura with his Tekkai Kenpo, a technique which allows him to move while using Tekkai, and throw powerful punches at his enemies while maintaining his defense, wanze with his ramen kenpo, and absalom with his modified body they all boasted of his awesomeness of their defensive capability but sanji broke through, and I am sure that oda would want his martial artist crew to become the ultimate defensive breaker in crew so it fits for Sanji to learn Hasshoken, another technique with vibrations that is used to penetrate defenses and armour and what not.

and he can combine hasshoken with diable jambe to form an even stronger attack and more fire
 
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