Discussion Spriggan 12 General Thread

[Brandish μ]

I am not sure if alegria counts as a technique for mard geer. That was the actual base wasn't it? Momento mori is definitely dangerous if it outright ends your existence.

I am not sure if he would be hard. Take erza for example. We saw her fight good old ajir. Even when she got her powers back when she fought on her own she ended up with a somewhat ever disadvantage even after using swords which specifically took advantage of sand's weaknesses. And erza is nothing to scoff at, specially if her power increase over the timeskip was comparable to natsu's. If she grew as much as suggested then even the actual gildarts from 2 years ago would be nothing to her right now. Just look at how badly natsu beat bluenote. Once way or the other bluenote took what seems to be one of gildarts stronger moves to defeat. In turn natsu beat bluenote with a dragon roar. And in her base form erza has regularly been stronger than natsu. And then we have erza vs ajir... Ajir bested her at every turn. It took a jupiter shot and her strongest armor to barely do the trick. If natsu can defeat bluenote with ease, I can easily see the springans doing that plus some more to mard geer.

I think Alegria is Mard's technique but he does need the cube to exist for it.

I believe Erza was outclassed when Ajeel fought seriously. But I still put EF Mard's capabilities as better than Erza's. She'd probably compare to him in attack power and maybe is better in this regard, I still got Mard ahead on speed/agility/durability/endurance even though Erza is pretty good in those stats. Basically he'd be harder to kill than someone like Erza but I do get what you're saying that the overwhelming power of a Spriggan shouldn't make it necessarily hard for them to beat Mard.

I don't equate Erza's growth by using Natsu. Erza has feats to show how much she improved, she has in fact showed the limits to her powers while the other Fairy Tail members aside from Raijinshuu so far haven't they've not been pushed into serious battle. To me she's about the level Laxus or Jura were before the time-skip which is still considerable improvement - she might be up to Gildarts level I can't tell for sure just guessing. Using Natsu's improvement is pointless because Natsu has his own set of reasons/conditions that allowed him to improve so much AND we have feats for Erza (I would understand if there weren't feats and you were using Natsu as a basis like you might do with Gajeel for example). Not everyone is going to improve the same just because Natsu has, I think Mashima has gone out of his way to portray the growth of Natsu, and has portrayed how Natsu trained so hard. Not saying anything bad about Erza here just my opinion that she's not improved as much as Natsu (through my interpretation of feats).

 

[iDooom]

I think Alegria is Mard's technique but he does need the cube to exist for it.

I believe Erza was outclassed when Ajeel fought seriously. But I still put EF Mard's capabilities as better than Erza's. She'd probably compare to him in attack power and maybe is better in this regard, I still got Mard ahead on speed/agility/durability/endurance even though Erza is pretty good in those stats. Basically he'd be harder to kill than someone like Erza but I do get what you're saying that the overwhelming power of a Spriggan shouldn't make it necessarily hard for them to beat Mard.

I don't equate Erza's growth by using Natsu. Erza has feats to show how much she improved, she has in fact showed the limits to her powers while the other Fairy Tail members aside from Raijinshuu so far haven't they've not been pushed into serious battle. To me she's about the level Laxus or Jura were before the time-skip which is still considerable improvement - she might be up to Gildarts level I can't tell for sure just guessing. Using Natsu's improvement is pointless because Natsu has his own set of reasons/conditions that allowed him to improve so much AND we have feats for Erza (I would understand if there weren't feats and you were using Natsu as a basis like you might do with Gajeel for example). Not everyone is going to improve the same just because Natsu has, I think Mashima has gone out of his way to portray the growth of Natsu, and has portrayed how Natsu trained so hard. Not saying anything bad about Erza here just my opinion that she's not improved as much as Natsu (through my interpretation of feats).

EF Mard Geer is pretty much the strongest character that has feats and that we can compare the Spriggans to.

Actually, GMG/Tartaros Erza was close to Jura's level. In Alvarez arc she should be about ishgar god level.

Spoiler

Pre-time skip Erza ~ weaker WS (Jose, Jellal, Jura), also shown in Pandemonium. If you multiply this by 2, should get in ballpark of mid-level WS (Makarov, GMG Jura).

Also consider that Minerva casually blocked Natsu's LFD punch: http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/283/14. Yagdo Rigora was strong enough to surprise Jura: http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/312/17, but Kagura and non-SO Erza tanked it with no problem.

There is no reason to believe that Ajeel is one of the weakest Spriggans. His MP was stated to be on the same level as Brandish, and usually the first enemy to be defeated in each arc is mid-low tier.

 

[Mirage]

Hades w/heart > EF Mard.

 

[Brandish μ]

EF Mard Geer is pretty much the strongest character that has feats and that we can compare the Spriggans to.

Actually, GMG/Tartaros Erza was close to Jura's level. In Alvarez arc she should be about ishgar god level.

Spoiler

Pre-time skip Erza ~ weaker WS (Jose, Jellal, Jura), also shown in Pandemonium. If you multiply this by 2, should get in ballpark of mid-level WS (Makarov, GMG Jura).

Also consider that Minerva casually blocked Natsu's LFD punch: http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/283/14. Yagdo Rigora was strong enough to surprise Jura: http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/312/17, but Kagura and non-SO Erza tanked it with no problem.

There is no reason to believe that Ajeel is one of the weakest Spriggans. His MP was stated to be on the same level as Brandish, and usually the first enemy to be defeated in each arc is mid-low tier.

There is only Hades that comes close pre-TS to Mard Geer. Hades has better attacks and similar endurance/durability but Mard is has better speed and agility. I'd actually say Gildarts is close here too.

I believe Erza was close to Jura, in the sense that she's closer than most other characters in the series. But her capabilities in combat are clearly a level below in my view. I put Jura in a similar level with Jellal, while Erza is in a similar level with the nine demon gates.

Spoiler

I don't really get why you multiply that by 2, Erza is not at that level of Jose/Jellal at the beginning of series, and I doubt she is even by Tartarus arc.

Minerva's magic allowed her to avoid LFD hammer from Natsu, it's not a durability thing. Acknowledging the power of someone's attack doesn't mean they can't tank it, all this proves is the power of Yagdo Rigora as not being able to put down Kagura and Erza; nothing to do with Jura.

Ajeel is the only one with feats that show his full power. The only one with hype greater than him is August. To say any other spriggan is above or below Ajeel is a guess at this stage but soon we will see for sure who is better than who.

 

[iDooom]

I don't really get why you multiply that by 2, Erza is not at that level of Jose/Jellal at the beginning of series, and I doubt she is even by Tartarus arc.

Minerva's magic allowed her to avoid LFD hammer from Natsu, it's not a durability thing. Acknowledging the power of someone's attack doesn't mean they can't tank it, all this proves is the power of Yagdo Rigora as not being able to put down Kagura and Erza; nothing to do with Jura.

Isn't SO pretty much a 2x increase in MP? Also, Erza could put up a fight against Jose/Jellal while injured and was acknowledged as WS level by both WS...

LFD hammer still caused damage to the building. Are you saying she warped away Natsu's attack or something?

Orga's lightning attack, which measured ~1/2 of Jura's attack on the MPF, failed to surprise Jura. This means Yagdo Rigora is probably at least 1/2 as strong as Jura's attack.

 

[Mirage]

She could put up a fight against Jellal, she's not winning though.

 

[Brandish μ]

Isn't SO pretty much a 2x increase in MP? Also, Erza could put up a fight against Jose/Jellal while injured and was acknowledged as WS level by both WS...

LFD hammer still caused damage to the building. Are you saying she warped away Natsu's attack or something?

Orga's lightning attack, which measured ~1/2 of Jura's attack on the MPF, failed to surprise Jura. This means Yagdo Rigora is probably at least 1/2 as strong as Jura's attack.

Off topic so I enclosed post.

Spoiler

Okay I see where the 2x comes from. I am not sure if it gives 2x power but it is definitely a power up. SO is equivalent to around 3 months training if Gajeel/Natsu comparison is acceptable, we that is for someone of Natsu/Gajeel's power might be different for Erza.

Erza can fight against Jose/Jellal but she is not their level. Jose remarked on Erza's ability and endurance but I can't remember him ever getting damaged. Jellal's power wasn't full when he got a slash from Erza only when Seig/Jellal merged did we get Jellal at full power. Even without the merger he was still a good fight for Erza.

Minerva put herself between Jiemma and Natsu and used her spatial magic there so that is where the warping will take effect I presume.

I don't disagree that Yagdo Rigora is stronger than Orga's cannon attack. I don't equate it with the 1/2 measures like you but it makes sense. I think the punch that one-shotted Orga is more damaging than Yagdo Rigora though.

 

[Holt]

This is a spriggan thread, please don't deviate from the topic.

 

[Coné]

Ajeel is the only one with feats that show his full power. The only one with hype greater than him is August. To say any other spriggan is above or below Ajeel is a guess at this stage but soon we will see for sure who is better than who.

Not exactly true, because we have both Wahl and Brandish with feats, and IIRC both their feats were calced above Ajeel's. I agree that his speed feats should be scaled to the other Shields for now though.

 

[Brandish μ]

Not exactly true, because we have both Wahl and Brandish with feats, and IIRC both their feats were calced above Ajeel's. I agree that his speed feats should be scaled to the other Shields for now though.

In terms of pure AoE Wahl has Ajeel covered but is it really fair to say he's above? I mean we got Warrod casually casting a 2000km tree. I couldn't put him above Ajeel. I don't necessarily agree with calcs because it doesn't equate MP, because Mashima hasn't given us the rules for that. Like is causing 1 tonne of sand to appear the same as 1 tonne of ice to appear? Comparing AoE with feats is best suited for the same spell, imo.

 

[Coné]

In terms of pure AoE Wahl has Ajeel covered but is it really fair to say he's above? I mean we got Warrod casually casting a 2000km tree. I couldn't put him above Ajeel. I don't necessarily agree with calcs because it doesn't equate MP, because Mashima hasn't given us the rules for that. Like is causing 1 tonne of sand to appear the same as 1 tonne of ice to appear? Comparing AoE with feats is best suited for the same spell, imo.

Warrod casting the 2000km tree wasn't an offensive spell. I think they calculate energy and not AoE and thus they can compare different spells. Calcs aren't 100% reliable though, because Hiro obviously doesn't write this with a calculator

 

[Arjuna]

High Tier Spriggan's:-
1)August
2)Wahl Icht
3)God Serena
4)Jacob Lessio
5)Invel
Mid Tier Spriggan's:-
1)Brandish
2)Dimaria
Low Tier Spriggan:-
1)Ajeel

 

[Dranzer]

High Tier Spriggan's:-
1)August
2)Wahl Icht
3)God Serena
4)Jacob Lessio
5)Invel
Mid Tier Spriggan's:-
1)Brandish
2)Dimaria
Low Tier Spriggan:-
1)Ajeel

Tbh I almost completely agree although I'm not denouncing your opinion because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. First of all, I don't think at the given point of the manga you can really say things like Dimaria > Ajeel (an example) when Ajeel has displayed immense strength in putting Erza (one of the strongest characters in the manga) on death's door while also being forced to deal with the Jupiter Canon. I can understand why you say August, God Serena and Invel are high-tier Spriggans mainly because their reputations seem to have left a mark, but otherwise I don't really think the order is quite accurate.

 

[Arjuna]

Tbh I almost completely agree although I'm not denouncing your opinion because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. First of all, I don't think at the given point of the manga you can really say things like Dimaria > Ajeel (an example) when Ajeel has displayed immense strength in putting Erza (one of the strongest characters in the manga) on death's door while also being forced to deal with the Jupiter Canon. I can understand why you say August, God Serena and Invel are high-tier Spriggans mainly because their reputations seem to have left a mark, but otherwise I don't really think the order is quite accurate.

You have your opinion but I Will like To Point out:-
1)Wahl Icht is a high tier Spriggan.Reson Brandish and marin respects him.He must be of High Tier or else he would not garner this respect.
2)Jacob is one of The Spriggans given in charge of The One Million Army.Naturally an experienced and Strong Spriggan will be given in charge of The One Million Army.Jacob should be a High Tier Spriggan unless proved otherwise.

 

[BluePegasus]

High Tier Spriggans:
- August >
- Neinhart >
- Bradman >
- Invel

Mid Tier Spriggans:
- Jacob >
- Wahl >
- God Serena >
- Di Maria >
- Brandish

Low Tier Spriggans:
- Ajeel

 

[Brandish μ]

Revised ranks going purely off hype and guessing.

Spriggan top tiers
1. God Serena
2. God Serena's manager, August
3. God Serena's butler, Jacob
4. Unnamed Spriggan #1

Spriggan mid tiers
5. Wahl
6. Neinhart
7. Brandish (7th the FT number)
8. Invel
9. Di Maria
10. Ajeel

Spriggan low tiers
11. Unnamed Spriggan #2
12. Bradman (he is Keith of Spriggans)

One of the unnamed will be female.

 

[Coné]

Revised ranks going purely off hype and guessing.

Spriggan top tiers
1. God Serena
2. God Serena's manager, August
3. God Serena's butler, Jacob
4. Unnamed Spriggan #1

Spriggan mid tiers
5. Wahl
6. Neinhart
7. Brandish (7th the FT number)
8. Invel
9. Di Maria
10. Ajeel

Spriggan low tiers
11. Unnamed Spriggan #2
12. Bradman (he is Keith of Spriggans)

One of the unnamed will be female.

I don't see why August would be weaker than God Serena when we've had Makarov say that he's the strongest Spriggan. I could agree on Bradman, but I think these unnamed Spriggan and Bradman (finally expecting a haxed villain to work out) and Nienhart are stronger than Brandish, Ajeel, Wahl and Dimaria purely going by their introduction order. I would currently say:

1. August - more or less confirmed
2. Unnamed Spriggan #1 - random guess
3. Invel - Zeref's secretary
4. Nienhart - I'm just hyped because he refused to attend to the reunion
5. Unnamed Spriggan #2 - random guess
6. Bradman - random guess
7. God Serena - I think he's a middle-ranked Spriggan because he's the benchmark we have for their strength
8. Wahl - feared by Marin and potentially Brandish
9. Jacob - random guess
10. Dimaria - random guess
11. Ajeel - clearly below 1st GoI level
12. Brandish - despite having great hax, it might be that she doesn't have good physical stats and her last name (μ) is the 12th letter of the greek alphabet.

I did this more or less by their character statements, by their introduction order, character designs and the hype they have.

 

[Brandish μ]

I just put God Serena #1 because his trio (team Serena) he is the leader, August is no.2 and Jacob no.3

But that's just me giving hype to Serena without using character statements, clearly Warrod/Makarov put August above Serena. Really any list without August at no.1 is making a guess. The rest can be ranked any way you want.

I believe Neinhart gets the most hype because he doesn't listen. Maybe he is just anti-social and a brat. Or his appearance would actually give something away maybe he is Ivan Dreyar.

 

[Coné]

I just put God Serena #1 because his trio (team Serena) he is the leader, August is no.2 and Jacob no.3

But that's just me giving hype to Serena without using character statements, clearly Warrod/Makarov put August above Serena. Really any list without August at no.1 is making a guess. The rest can be ranked any way you want.

I believe Neinhart gets the most hype because he doesn't listen. Maybe he is just anti-social and a brat. Or his appearance would actually give something away maybe he is Ivan Dreyar.

I wouldn't say he was the leader. He was probably just "leading" because he was the one who knew the Wizard Saints well, and thus he did the talking.

I'd say that August at #1 and Ajeel as a lower-ranked Spriggan are the only confirmed choices right now.

There has even been some speculation that Nienhart is Gildarts, but nah. I think he's a brand new character.

 

[Brandish μ]

Yea I just hype God Serena really high for fun, he is Yury and has God Ankhseram curse too like Mavis. He is the leader because he knows Isghal better.

Ajeel is probably low end because he got beat already and was the cocky weaker one of the group. Still the evidence is lacking to confirm him being bottom tier but agree it's more likely.

Gildarts? No way Cana tracked him down in the timeskip and Natsu found him too. Would be too much shock for FT.