I have already debunked this. Natsu oneshotting WarGod and Bluenote was done by Igneel's MP. So he was still using Igneel's magical reserves to defeat them. Which also explains why Natsu stated "Flame Dragon King Mode Destruction" against WarGod.
Natsu by his own power would not oneshot Bluenote and WarGod. So your argument is irrelevant.
He can't currently use Fire Dragon King mode until proven that he can.
How was Natsu oneshotting Bluenote and the War God done with Igneel's power? That power can only be used once; that was stated in the manga so why should it be any different?
Natsu defeated Bluenote with a Flame Dragon's Roar. There's no way he'd use Igneel's power for a casual roar like that.
Against the war god, Natsu used the technique 'Flame Dragon King's Demolition Fist', and thats what crunchyroll (the official place to get the chapter) has it listed as, so there's no way that move was a Flame Dragon King Mode. That being used with Igneel's power is ludicrous as the manga has stated FDKM was a one-off use, so for Natsu to be able to chip into the well like that is going against what we were told about the power. Plus, Zeref reacted in awe when Natsu activated Igneel's magic power; there was nothing of the sort in Avatar from mages that are far away from Zeref's level. That too points to the literal fact stated in the manga that FDKM was a one-time deal, and that means FDK moves are separate from that. Zeref only reacted to the power when Natsu removed the bandages, so until then he was using his own power. That should put it beyond doubt that Natsu's FDK moves are different from the power for FDKMode
Is it really Unbelievable That Natsu has surpassed 3 GOI.This Arc Potrays that Natsu is Spriggan Level atleast stronger than Ajeel.Can't say about Other Spriggan's until We see Natsu fight seriously.And as Sir Samuel and others and I said Natsu was using his own power not Igneel's.He clearly said,"I can only use this once".And That is against Zeref.He developed New Spells as we saw him Covering Domus Flau with a Flame which does not burn.So it is possible He developed a Spell and named it "FDK".
What's the confusion, I'm being pretty clear at this point.
Irrelevant, this logic doesn't apply to Fairy tail. Acnologia will always be ahead of a fully dragonized Natsu and so would the god of death Anksheram. Heck I doubt Natsu would be as powerful as his dragon father Igneel, or the first generation dragons. Haru who had the most potential was not shown to be the strongest in Hiro Mashima's previous work. Given how much Hiro loves to recycle ideas from his previous mangas, Natsu stands no chance to be the strongest. Now with Natsu knowing that Zeref's death will also equal his death, it means Natsu if he had any ounce of intelligence left would not strive to be stronger than Zeref. Laxus, Jellal, Gildartz have far better DC than Natsu, so false there. Heck GMG ISD Roar from Gajeel had far better potency than any of Natsu's attacks. Natsu doesn't have better hype than Gray and Gajeel. END Does, so Try again.
GOI are oneshotting Natsu based on hype and protrayal, because they are the strongest continental mages on the planet. Heck a former GOI would definitely oneshot Natsu in God Serena.
No he didn't, Gildartz two-three shotted Bluenote. Only reason why Gildartz received this much difficulty was becuase of Plot PIS, where Azuma interefered in their magic and diminished Gildartz's MP, once the play was in even field, Gildartz one punched him out.
At most Bluenote gave him a low-mid difficulty battle. Gildartz even mentioned he got tired quickly is becauase of his age. Except there is proof where Jura trained, while no word of mention is made of Bluenote training. Infact he became much weaker.
Indeed.
Natsu exhausted his magical reserves, and due to power of feelings was able to use DF. Igneel leaving his body isn't irrelevant, don't deny manga canon. There's a reason Natsu was able to use DF for the first time, and it's no coincidence it happens when Igneel leaves his body. Igneel also said he wanted to control Natsu's powers. In the movie canon, we saw Natsu being half dragonized arms, so clearly those antibodies had no effect.
No it wasn't, Silver only transferred his magic to Gray, not his magic level or anything of that sort. Cana received a tatoo because of a spell, while Gray received it because of a mode. For all we know that tatooo could've beeen sealed under Gray's des marks, and we can't see it because of the curse marks that are corroding half of Gray's body.
Irrelevant. Gray used a new power, which signifies that his power level is changing based on Makarov's reaction. He said his magic level isn't the same as it was a year ago, not his form of magic. There's a difference.
First of all you don't know how Silver froze the giant's village, so don't make any assumptions and speculation. Silver could've exhausted his whole magical reserves into freezing those giants which obviously would have more AOE, while Gray casually used Ice Make: Silver, with one hand. If Gray uses all out in using attacks then logically he would have better AOE than Silver's freezing giant feats. , Ofcourse Ajeel would break out of it, he's a spriggan 12 and was stomping Erza until plot came over. If Ajeel didn't break out of that, he would be fodder if he's that below the main characters in power.
It's not as clear as you think it means. He used Igneel's power against Zeref. It also means, there is a belief that he took on Igneel's MP level of power to bust up those atacks, which was why he was using flame dragon mode on the War God, so Igneel's MP obviously played a part in Natsu's DC. In a years of training it is illogical to believe Natsu is capable of oneshotting Bluenote, and a WarGod. Natsu at base has better feats than DF Natsu, so tell me how that is logical of Natsu not using Igneel's power to demonstrate those feats.
1)No it isn't. Plus that was Ice Make Gray, and Current Gray can low diff that version of Gray. I can play this card too: Technically there was nothing stopping Gray from using his iced clones, and oneshotting Silver when Silver was standing around. Yes it is a game changer against Natsu given how Silver blitzed past Natsu and has much better speed movement feats than him. He can freaking teleport ffs.
This was debunked by Axel regardless.
2. To clarify now, 2. Gray had Silver's magic, not his power. The MP he used in that battle is by far his own. He demonstrated to have torn up more of Marde's thorn compared to Natsu. Gray was somewhat nerfed in that battle so Natsu can be protrayed to fight even with him. The difference is huge when you look at their respective DC, along with level of durability and endurance which Gray shown to boost more than Natsu in that fight. If you flip them around, Base Gray would fare just as well as Base Natsu, since they have equal speed movement, and CQC (which was further illustrated in their battle in Avatar arc).
Base Natsu going out = LFD Natsu. So Base Natsu has gone all out multiple amount of times. Natsu used a metsur-ryo ogi against Tempesta, so clearly Natsu was going all out back then. There's no indication of Bluenote being in the same tier as Gildartz, someone who low-mid diffed Bluenote. Now you believe Base Natsu is capable of oneshotting Jura? Ridiculous overhyping of Natsu. Jura gave Tartaros Laxus a high diff fight, so essentially you're implying current Base Natsu is capable of oneshotting Tartaros Laxus with his own power and not Igneel's *faceplam
Playing the same card, Just because he had Igneel's power it means he was using it. He was saving Igneel's overall power against Zeref, it doesn't mean he didn't rely on Igneel's power to perform this feats specifically when he used flame dragon king mode prior to his battle with Zeref.
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Sure he was holding back, All of Silver's lethal attacks were either tanked or endured by Gray, so what he shown in the battle is his most powerful attacks. Silver did have the intention to seriously injure Gray, which is why he apologized to Gray because of it and said "How can I look you in the eyes when I hurted you so much"? Technically there was nothing stopping Gray from using his iced clones, and oneshotting Silver when Silver was standing around. Yes it is a game changer against Natsu given how Silver blitzed past Natsu and has much better speed movement feats than him. He can freaking teleport ffs.
It's relevant based on how the argument you are throtting out as it's the same level of examle here. It wasn't a legit win, it was a risk and can be considered an asspull. Makarov even mentioned Natsu would've died but instead he got lucky. and you know why he got lucky? Becuase of plot and being a MC. Makarov did next to nothing? I suggest you re-read the fight and become aware of the fact that Makarov held Zancrow back with his giant arm here:
Which gave Natsu enough time to empty his tank and absorb god flames ( an asspull strategy)
This falls in line with the whole "Silver holding back/Not using instant freeze" counter you surely like to use.
Not to mention, Fukurou oneshotted Natsu. A character Gray defeated. It must really mean Natsu is fodder then right?
Base Gray has the same level of speed movement and CQC as Base Nasu. there's nothing indicating that he didn't. They have always been protrayed to having the same movement speed and CQC as each other. Why deny this? To make your argument more credible? Base Gray wouldn't solo Marde because he wouldn't be able to use Demon Slaying magic. False. Des Gray has shown to have better CQC and speed movement than Base Natsu as he crushed more thorns with his punches, and was shown to move faster and plan quicker than Natsu. DF Natsu simply caught Marde off guard, and during their exchanges, Marde got the upperhand on DF Natsu and tanked his attacks.
No one said Gray was close to beating Natsu in the avatar arc. However Gray had the advantage with support from his avatar comrades. The OVA was made and endorsed by Mashima which explains why Natsu got the scar, hence it's canon that Gray defeated Natsu when they were children. and now Natsu doesn't have the luxury of using Igneel's power anymore. So what he does now is his own feats. Using the daphne filler arc as a main level of counter is laughable and made me chuckle, it was debunked regardless.
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I have already debunked this. Natsu oneshotting WarGod and Bluenote was done by Igneel's MP. So he was still using Igneel's magical reserves to defeat them. Which also explains why Natsu stated "Flame Dragon King Mode Destruction" against WarGod.
Natsu by his own power would not oneshot Bluenote and WarGod. So your argument is irrelevant.
He can't currently use Fire Dragon King mode until proven that he can.
Natsu is The Counterpart of Rave Situation Then He looks like Elie and Lucy looks like Haru.Elie became the Strongest at the End and Gained Etherion.So There is a Chance that Natsu will come in The Top 3 Strongest Characters.
How was Natsu oneshotting Bluenote and the War God done with Igneel's power? That power can only be used once; that was stated in the manga so why should it be any different?
Natsu defeated Bluenote with a Flame Dragon's Roar. There's no way he'd use Igneel's power for a casual roar like that.
Against the war god, Natsu used the technique 'Flame Dragon King's Demolition Fist', and thats what crunchyroll (the official place to get the chapter) has it listed as, so there's no way that move was a Flame Dragon King Mode. That being used with Igneel's power is ludicrous as the manga has stated FDKM was a one-off use, so for Natsu to be able to chip into the well like that is going against what we were told about the power. Plus, Zeref reacted in awe when Natsu activated Igneel's magic power; there was nothing of the sort in Avatar from mages that are far away from Zeref's level. That too points to the literal fact stated in the manga that FDKM was a one-time deal, and that means FDK moves are separate from that. Zeref only reacted to the power when Natsu removed the bandages, so until then he was using his own power. That should put it beyond doubt that Natsu's FDK moves are different from the power for FDKMode
Then explain to me, how Natsu was able to use a new mode? (with no foreshadowing. and more importantly use a mode that describes Igneel's character)
Simple answer: Natsu still resorted to using Igneel's magical reserves to deliver those feats in oneshotting Bluenote/WarGod.
Explain to me how is it logical for Base Natsu to outclass his DF feats in a mere one year's time.
Simple answer: It's not logical.
Is it really Unbelievable That Natsu has surpassed 3 GOI.This Arc Potrays that Natsu is Spriggan Level atleast stronger than Ajeel.Can't say about Other Spriggan's until We see Natsu fight seriously.And as Sir Samuel and others and I said Natsu was using his own power not Igneel's.He clearly said,"I can only use this once".And That is against Zeref.He developed New Spells as we saw him Covering Domus Flau with a Flame which does not burn.So it is possible He developed a Spell and named it "FDK".
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Natsu is The Counterpart of Rave Situation Then He looks like Elie and Lucy looks like Haru.Elie became the Strongest at the End and Gained Etherion.So There is a Chance that Natsu will come in The Top 3 Strongest Characters.
No, Natsu is the counterpart of Haru. Mashima drew both side by side plenty of times.
Lucy doesn't look like Haru -_- she looks like a short haired Ellie.
Chances doesn't equate to facts.
Juvia>Lucy
Current Lucy is also featless. All she did is defeat fodder and had a tough time with Mary.
Then explain to me, how Natsu was able to use a new mode? (with no foreshadowing. and more importantly use a mode that describes Igneel's character)
Simple answer: Natsu still resorted to using Igneel's magical reserves to deliver those feats in oneshotting Bluenote/WarGod.
Explain to me how is it logical for Base Natsu to outclass his DF feats in a mere one year's time.
Simple answer: It's not logical.
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No, Natsu is the counterpart of Haru. Mashima drew both side by side plenty of times.
Lucy doesn't look like Haru -_- she looks like a short haired Ellie.
Chances doesn't equate to facts.
Natsu clearly said,"I Can only Use This Once".He kept it only for Zeref.After The Dragons left He got a huge boost and One Year Training.Moreover He used Only Fire Dragon Roar in a casual Way against Bluenote.How Can You Think it is FDKM when Natsu clearly said that He can use it only once and He has kept only for Zeref.
@Axel Stone
I love how you're trying to use Natsu's status as the MC against him being the strongest character by the end of series. Doesn't matter what Rave Master did. Is Lucy a carbon copy of Elie? For the sake of argument, let's say Lucy would become stronger than Natsu by the end of the series. You know what? Lucy is not Gray, and in this particular fight Lucy is fighting with Natsu. You know who Gray would be equivalent of in Fairy Tail? Musica. Now in Fairy Tail, Natsu is being set up as having the potential to be the strongest. He was Zeref's ultimate creation, and he was trained by Igneel. Who cares if Ankhseram might be stronger than him? I doubt Ankhseram will ever show up and fight as an actual character. Also, it's great that you should mention Acnologia. Who do you think is going to end up beating Acnologia?
Gildarts had a hard time with Bluenote. It was even stated that they went toe to toe. Gildarts had trouble with Bluenote because Bluenote was on his level. Complain about plot all you want, that doesn't change what happened. Natsu oneshotted Bluenote. He did better. I don't see how this is even debatable. The whole reason Bluenote was even brought back was because Mashima wanted to show Natsu oneshotting an opponent that was once on the level of Bluenote. The Ishgar Saints are not oneshotting Natsu. They don't have any impressive combat feats whatsoever. They don't even have the hype of being capable of oneshotting Jura, let alone Natsu.
Natsu dedicated an entire year to training. We all saw the result of Laxus' training. He went from struggling with Jura to being able to handle a Spriggan. It was obvious that Natsu became more powerful from the moment he showed up to the GMG. It was even more obvious when he oneshotted Bluenote. By the way, Natsu oneshotted Bluenote with his own power. Also, what's all this about having seen base Natsu go all out? Why are you trying to say that just because we've seen base Natsu use LFD in Tartarus that we've seen current Natsu go all out? Never mind the obvious fact that you're trying to compare current Natsu to Tartarus Natsu. The fact still remains Natsu going all out a year ago would be him using dragon force. Current base Natsu is stronger than his Tartarus arc dragon force. The fact that Natsu had to train his body to be able to handle Igneel's magic alone suggests that he became powerful. Think about how much power etherion has. Spriggans like Wahl can cast etherion. Etherion cannon needs to be powered by Fairy Heart to be able to take down Acnologia, and indeed Acnologia can oneshot Spriggans. Igneel was on the level of Acnologia. This alone tells us how much power Natsu had to handle.
Natsu himself stated that he can only use Igneel's power once. That simply wouldn't be true if he was using it all the time. You not believing Natsu could grow to be strong is not a real reason why he was using Igneel's power. For all this criticism about assumptions, saying that FDK spells were all done with Igneel's power is just that - an assumption. It's an assumption that fails to account for why people like Happy would make a remark on how Natsu was willing to use Igneel's power so soon against Zeref, despite having witnessed an FDK roar against the Alvarez troops. It fails to account for why Zeref would be unimpressed by the damage caused by FDK roar, yet immediately take notice of the power coming from Natsu as soon as he takes off the bandages.
Igneel leaving had nothing to do with Natsu using Dragon Force. Natsu used dragon force because he was emotional. Sure. However, it was 100% his own power. You can't even argue against that because you're saying Igneel was suppressing Natsu's power, and honestly there's no proof of that as it is. Natsu figured out how to enter DF on his own power. DF Natsu was done on Natsu's own power, and was superior to anything Gray could have done without a power-up. It's really that simple. Even if you don't accept DF Natsu as his own power, LFD certainly was and LFD was already superior to Gray's ice-make across the board. Base Gray simply wasn't on the level of Tartarus Natsu. Speaking of Gray. Of course Gray received a power up from Silver. It's the most obvious thing ever. Gray received power from Silver the exact same way Natsu recieved power from Igneel, or Cana from Fairy Glitter. Mard Geer even said Gray was using Silver's power multiple times. Are you seriously going to try and tell me Igneel leaving Natsu's body gave him a power-up, but Silver gave Gray no magical power at all?
Makarov never saw Gray with Silver's power. That's why when he says his power was completely different from a year ago, you can't say he was comparing it to Silver-powered Gray. Makarov was comparing current Gray to the previous version of Gray he knew, one that only had ice-make magic. Of course he would deem Gray to be more powerful. It's been over a year, and he learned a stronger type of magic. You keep saying I'm making assumptions, but all the assumptions thus far are coming from you. What proof is there that Gray would freeze over an entire village with all his power? What proof is there that Silver used all his power to freeze the village? The truth of the matter is that we don't know either of these answers, and that Silver's feat is larger (far larger). Silver could have kept going as long as Keith was around. Again, he held back against Gray. There was nothing stopping Silver from trying to freeze Gray after he was shot. He simply didn't want to. Also, Gray didn't know Silver was a Slayer when they first fought. Even if he tried using clones, Silver would be immune to their attacks until Gray figured out Silver's weakness. If Silver kept his mouth shut, and actually fought Gray with intent to win....Gray would have just gotten insta-frozen. Silver could have ended the fight at any moment. Gray couldn't. How does this not obviously tell us about Silver and Gray's power levels?
How much damage did Makarov do to Zancrow? How much damage did Makarov prevent Zancrow from dealing to Natsu? Zancrow would have done everything he did to Natsu with or without Makarov, and Natsu would have done everything the same as well. Makarov's assistance was minimal.
Then explain to me, how Natsu was able to use a new mode? (with no foreshadowing. and more importantly use a mode that describes Igneel's character)
Simple answer: Natsu still resorted to using Igneel's magical reserves to deliver those feats in oneshotting Bluenote/WarGod.
Explain to me how is it logical for Base Natsu to outclass his DF feats in a mere one year's time.
Simple answer: It's not logical.
Natsu was away training for a year, and he said he spent a lot of that time training to be able to use Igneel's power (aka Flame Dragon King Mode). Now he wouldn't of just trained to tap into a reserve of magical power left by a dragon, and the training he did do would've also benefited his own strength separate from Igneel's power. By becoming more powerful, he enabled himself to use FDK spells with his own power. And it goes without saying that out of all the characters from Fairy Tail, Natsu definitely did the most training as its been portrayed that way, with Laxus being second, so its not really that unbelievable he could've become a hell of a lot stronger.
Where is the proof Igneel's power was used to deliver the attacks against the War God, and especially against Bluenote? The roar Natsu used against Bluenote was nothing compared to the Flame Dragon King's Roar he used against the Alvarez soldiers, so even if you were arguing FDK moves were done with Igneel's power there's nothing to suggest something of such a small scale would be done using power from one of the strongest characters in the manga.
Natsu may of used those attacks and thrown in the 'Flame Dragon King' as a tribute to Igneel. But 'Flame Dragon King' doesn't have to necessarily relate to Igneel anymore. Why? Igneel was the Flame Dragon King, and Natsu was his adoptive son, making him the Flame Dragon Prince. With the King being dead, the Prince becomes the King. So in that regard the Flame Dragon King spells could really be referring to Natsu now being the Flame Dragon King.
I have always seen natsu above gray too , but I can't really says much becoz gray didn't shown that much feats after the time skip and I wonder what his secret magic that he tell juvia about .
But still natsu win this for now .
As for Lucy and Juvia , I wonder how people could even said that juvia is above Lucy? Lol even without CSK , Lucy is above Juvia . She can even be Juvia if she want to . And maybe someone even stronger than Juvia .
Natsu and Lucy are just too strong to be taken out by the likes of Juvia and Gray.
Juvia is a non factor as either of the 3 could take her out without much trouble.
Natsu's Aura would pretty much evaporate her.
Gray would pretty much freeze.
Energy arrows would due tremendous damage to her.
So it would pretty much be Natsu and Lucy vs Gray.
Natsu alone could take out Gray without much trouble as his fire has already shown to be able to melt Gray's Ice. Also Natsu is way better in Hand to Hand combat. So it wouldn't take Natsu no more than Mid difficulty to take Gray out. I know people keep talking about his Ace to take out Zeref but since we haven't seen it nor do w know if it will work it is irrelevant in this battle. We can speculate on what it is all day.
Also as far as Gray vs Lucy is concerned unless Gray has more magical power than Lucy, which feat wise don't seem likely, Lucy could take Gray out Mid-high difficulty. It would basically come down to Gray(Lucy)+Gray(Gemini) vs Gray.
Also as far as Gray vs Lucy is concerned unless Gray has more magical power than Lucy, which feat wise don't seem likely, Lucy could take Gray out Mid-high difficulty. It would basically come down to Gray(Lucy)+Gray(Gemini) vs Gray.
Now that is going way too far... Explain how "feat-wise", it is unlikely that Gray has more magical power than Lucy. She hasn't demonstrated anything to match Gray's MP. So not only does Lucy lose to Gray in magical power, but her celestial spirits like Gemini won't be able to copy Gray. Thus, Gray would handily beat her in a fight.
Aside from feats (which Gray still has the upper-hand in), let's use logic here. It should be obvious that Gray > Lucy in Tartaros. Using the information that Gray trained for a solid 6 months, while Lucy was spending her time getting a job as a reporter, I don't see how she surpasses him. Even using Makarov's statement that they both improved, Gray would still be ahead of Lucy.
Now that is going way too far... Explain how "feat-wise", it is unlikely that Gray has more magical power than Lucy. She hasn't demonstrated anything to match Gray's MP. So not only does Lucy lose to Gray in magical power, but her celestial spirits like Gemini won't be able to copy Gray. Thus, Gray would handily beat her in a fight.
Aside from feats (which Gray still has the upper-hand in), let's use logic here. It should be obvious that Gray > Lucy in Tartaros. Using the information that Gray trained for a solid 6 months, while Lucy was spending her time getting a job as a reporter, I don't see how she surpasses him. Even using Makarov's statement that they both improved, Gray would still be ahead of Lucy.
Feats wise , In term of mp . Lucy summon and sustain over ten spirit in less than a few hours without a rest and we all knows that in order to summon the spirit Lucy use a high amount of mp and the same goes to sustaining them in the real world . And she even force close the gate .
Summon three spirit at once which is IMO almost the same amount of using nakagami armor . For example if using nakagami armor is 4/4 then summon three spirit might be 2/4 or 3/4 and I count sustaining them as well .
After that she Summon the Celestial Spirit King which took much more than summoning three spirit . And even sustaining him for quite a long time .
Cast Urano Metroia which we all know took a lots of MP to cast . And now she even have Star dress which increase her mp .
IMO in tartaros arc Lucy surpassed team natsu but of course maybe the like of natsu surpass her back after the time skip .
Gray didn't do nothing much in term of mp and he just mid diff mard just becoz of the nature of his magic to slay the demon .
Lucy said that she trained so many times after the time skip and I don't remember her saying that she busy finding work whatsoever . She just work becoz she somehow need to support herself .
I'm not saying that gray win against Lucy (and vice versa ) becoz there's always the pros and cons but in term of mp , Lucy beats gray . And not to mention if Gemini turn into Lucy they could combine their power and maybe cast something much more powerful.
Feats wise , In term of mp . Lucy summon and sustain over ten spirit in less than a few hours without a rest and we all knows that in order to summon the spirit Lucy use a high amount of mp and the same goes to sustaining them in the real world . And she even force close the gate .
Summon three spirit at once which is IMO almost the same amount of using nakagami armor . For example if using nakagami armor is 4/4 then summon three spirit might be 2/4 or 3/4 and I count sustaining them as well .
I disagree. Nakagami Armor was widely said to be so powerful that many wizards have tried to unlock it but failed because of the amount of MP it required.
On the other hand, summoning 3 spirits was never hyped to be as exhausting as that. In fact, it was explicitly stated that Lucy couldn't handle that, hinting that maybe her MP is lacking or she isn't quite at that level yet.
One thing you have to keep in mind is that Urano Metria was not casted solely from her own power. Most of it was Aquarius' MP which is why we saw Lucy unable to move before she received the star-dress.
This leads me to my next point. Lucy didn't will the power of her celestial spirits by herself in the Tartaros Arc. It was outright handed to Lucy by the Celestial Spirit King.
Only after the timeskip did Lucy learn how to use the star dresses by herself.
I don't think so. Summoning is not as tiring as we're making it out to be. Arlock was able to summon Ikusa-Tsunagi. Should he have higher MP than Team Natsu? Even Minerva who can summon a weaker god doesn't have MP anywhere close to the main characters. Let's keep in mind that Natsu used Dragon Force and was still able to stand afterwards which should be more taxing in terms of MP.
I would also like to add that Lucy only opened all three gates (Leo, Aquarius, and Virgo) for a short period of time. The Celestial Spirit King was also being consumed through Aquarius' MP. Unlike other mages, Lucy's spells gradually drain her energy. So after she summons CSK, then her MP decreases at a constant rate. But someone like Natsu or Gray, would immediately lose a lot of MP after casting one powerful attack.
The more MP you put into the spells, the stronger it becomes. Now using that logic, every single one of Gray's attacks (especially Devil Slaying Magic) were stronger than Lucy's. In other words, he burned through a lot more MP than Lucy and was still able to fight in the end. Whereas, Lucy was on the verge of collapsing. That alone should automatically tell us that his magic power is higher.
Lucy said that she trained so many times after the time skip and I don't remember her saying that she busy finding work whatsoever . She just work becoz she somehow need to support herself .
I know she said she secretly trained during the timeskip but she also spent a lot of her time trying to find work which is exactly my point. Lucy at most only trained for half a year which is exactly how much Gray trained for. You don't have to read any of this but just skim through them.
I'm not saying that gray win against Lucy (and vice versa ) becoz there's always the pros and cons but in term of mp , Lucy beats gray . And not to mention if Gemini turn into Lucy they could combine their power and maybe cast something much more powerful.
I honestly don't see how Lucy would beat Gray in terms of MP. Of course, you're free to believe whatever you want but I would need a lot more convincing to agree. In my opinion, Gray beats her in Attack Power, Defense, Speed, and Magic Power. They are quite similar in Intelligence. The only stat that I might give Lucy an advantage in is Versatility.
NaLu wins this with mid diff at best. Natsu needs one Demolition Fist to demolish Gray. Lucy needs to summon Taurus, Virgo and Loke and Juvia is roasted.
Hyping Gray to the absolute max would put him equal to Natsu, but he doesn't have the feats to match Natsu. Unless Natsu has a demon body now or something I don't see how Gray can beat Natsu currently. Lucy and Juvia are non-factors in this fight but I'd say that Lucy is slightly stronger.
Natsu wins.
Natsu and Lucy are just too strong to be taken out by the likes of Juvia and Gray.
Juvia is a non factor as either of the 3 could take her out without much trouble.
Natsu's Aura would pretty much evaporate her.
Gray would pretty much freeze.
Energy arrows would due tremendous damage to her.
So it would pretty much be Natsu and Lucy vs Gray.
Natsu alone could take out Gray without much trouble as his fire has already shown to be able to melt Gray's Ice. Also Natsu is way better in Hand to Hand combat. So it wouldn't take Natsu no more than Mid difficulty to take Gray out. I know people keep talking about his Ace to take out Zeref but since we haven't seen it nor do w know if it will work it is irrelevant in this battle. We can speculate on what it is all day.
Also as far as Gray vs Lucy is concerned unless Gray has more magical power than Lucy, which feat wise don't seem likely, Lucy could take Gray out Mid-high difficulty. It would basically come down to Gray(Lucy)+Gray(Gemini) vs Gray.
You can't be serious....Not only are you completely underrating the Gruvia duo but you reached to a point that Lucy (who is tiers below Gray) can take Gray out? Lol please. Gray would easily low-mid diff Lucy. She's a non-factor against Gray, and Gemini is overrated, all the spirit is going to stall some time, where Gray takes out Lucy easily.
What ice did Natsu melt? Casual ice? Please.
Juvia is capable of taking out Lucy atleast at a high diff battle.
As for Natsu and Gray, based on portrayal, he can give Base Natsu a high diff fight atleast. and he hasn't shown to tiers above in CQC.
How can anyone bother to like that post?
Feat-wise, Gray is so above Lucy that it's not even funny. Heck, the DeS Spell used against Ur would likely oneshot her.
NaLu wins this with mid diff at best. Natsu needs one Demolition Fist to demolish Gray. Lucy needs to summon Taurus, Virgo and Loke and Juvia is roasted.
Feats wise , In term of mp . Lucy summon and sustain over ten spirit in less than a few hours without a rest and we all knows that in order to summon the spirit Lucy use a high amount of mp and the same goes to sustaining them in the real world . And she even force close the gate .
Summon three spirit at once which is IMO almost the same amount of using nakagami armor . For example if using nakagami armor is 4/4 then summon three spirit might be 2/4 or 3/4 and I count sustaining them as well .
After that she Summon the Celestial Spirit King which took much more than summoning three spirit . And even sustaining him for quite a long time .
Cast Urano Metroia which we all know took a lots of MP to cast . And now she even have Star dress which increase her mp .
IMO in tartaros arc Lucy surpassed team natsu but of course maybe the like of natsu surpass her back after the time skip .
Gray didn't do nothing much in term of mp and he just mid diff mard just becoz of the nature of his magic to slay the demon .
Lucy said that she trained so many times after the time skip and I don't remember her saying that she busy finding work whatsoever . She just work becoz she somehow need to support herself .
I'm not saying that gray win against Lucy (and vice versa ) becoz there's always the pros and cons but in term of mp , Lucy beats gray . And not to mention if Gemini turn into Lucy they could combine their power and maybe cast something much more powerful.
Gray is far above Lucy in nearly every stat of the measure including MP. He was able to disperse a scrape of a mountain with his magical power.
You should be saying Gray wins against Lucy, because it's logical.
Gray is simply much stronger than Lucy. He's tiers above her, has always been much superior and has garnered far superior feats and has shown to be a fighter at a much earlier age. What is gemini going to do? get oneshotted?
Lucy is better off against Juvia because she's a non-factor against Gray.
Feat-wise, when did Lucy summon over ten celestial spirits?
I disagree. Nakagami Armor was widely said to be so powerful that many wizards have tried to unlock it but failed because of the amount of MP it required.
On the other hand, summoning 3 spirits was never hyped to be as exhausting as that. In fact, it was explicitly stated that Lucy couldn't handle that, hinting that maybe her MP is lacking or she isn't quite at that level yet.
One thing you have to keep in mind is that Urano Metria was not casted solely from her own power. Most of it was Aquarius' MP which is why we saw Lucy unable to move before she received the star-dress.
This leads me to my next point. Lucy didn't will the power of her celestial spirits by herself in the Tartaros Arc. It was outright handed to Lucy by the Celestial Spirit King.
Only after the timeskip did Lucy learn how to use the star dresses by herself.
I don't think so. Summoning is not as tiring as we're making it out to be. Arlock was able to summon Ikusa-Tsunagi. Should he have higher MP than Team Natsu? Even Minerva who can summon a weaker god doesn't have MP anywhere close to the main characters. Let's keep in mind that Natsu used Dragon Force and was still able to stand afterwards which should be more taxing in terms of MP.
I would also like to add that Lucy only opened all three gates (Leo, Aquarius, and Virgo) for a short period of time. The Celestial Spirit King was also being consumed through Aquarius' MP. Unlike other mages, Lucy's spells gradually drain her energy. So after she summons CSK, then her MP decreases at a constant rate. But someone like Natsu or Gray, would immediately lose a lot of MP after casting one powerful attack.
The more MP you put into the spells, the stronger it becomes. Now using that logic, every single one of Gray's attacks (especially Devil Slaying Magic) were stronger than Lucy's. In other words, he burned through a lot more MP than Lucy and was still able to fight in the end. Whereas, Lucy was on the verge of collapsing. That alone should automatically tell us that his magic power is higher.
I know she said she secretly trained during the timeskip but she also spent a lot of her time trying to find work which is exactly my point. Lucy at most only trained for half a year which is exactly how much Gray trained for. You don't have to read any of this but just skim through them.
I honestly don't see how Lucy would beat Gray in terms of MP. Of course, you're free to believe whatever you want but I would need a lot more convincing to agree. In my opinion, Gray beats her in Attack Power, Defense, Speed, and Magic Power. They are quite similar in Intelligence. The only stat that I might give Lucy an advantage in is Versatility.
1. What I meant is of course not at once but simultaneous summoning but still that is impressive .
2.I did not said that to open three gates at once is the same as using the nakagami armor... did I? Its close to and it is said to be a taboo techniques and could kill her which is a point that summonings and sustaining three spirit at once consume a lots of MP .
3.Well , Lucy summon csk even before she gets Aquarius star dress and just summoning required a huge chunk of MP and to consider that her star dress MP + is enough for her to casted a spell that require a huge amount of mp is still impressive . That still puts her above gray on term of mp .
4.The Gold keys spirit required a lots of mp to summon , no matter how much you disagree , it's stated that to summon one spirit required a lots of MP.
How do you know that arlock doesn't have a high amount of mp? His wall of defense is impressive IMO .
Like I said just summonings already used up a lots of mp , it doesn't matter even if it just for a short while .
And your point about Lucy draining mp to sustain the spirit , didn't you just agree that Lucy have much more mp than gray? Lol
5.Disagree , it's never stated that gray need a high amount of mp to use any of his attack and how can you compare two people that used different kind of magic? Gray used a lots of attack becoz the nature of his magic while Lucy....like I said summoning and sustaining required s lots of mp.
6.she still trains and by FEATS wise she had higher mp then gray.
7. Yeah we could stick to our opinion but I love both characters and I need to disagree that gray have higher mp than Lucy.
1. What I meant is of course not at once but simultaneous summoning but still that is impressive .
2.I did not said that to open three gates at once is the same as using the nakagami armor... did I? Its close to and it is said to be a taboo techniques and could kill her which is a point that summonings and sustaining three spirit at once consume a lots of MP .
3.Well , Lucy summon csk even before she gets Aquarius star dress and just summoning required a huge chunk of MP and to consider that her star dress MP + is enough for her to casted a spell that require a huge amount of mp is still impressive . That still puts her above gray on term of mp .
4.The Gold keys spirit required a lots of mp to summon , no matter how much you disagree , it's stated that to summon one spirit required a lots of MP.
How do you know that arlock doesn't have a high amount of mp? His wall of defense is impressive IMO .
Like I said just summonings already used up a lots of mp , it doesn't matter even if it just for a short while .
And your point about Lucy draining mp to sustain the spirit , didn't you just agree that Lucy have much more mp than gray? Lol
5.Disagree , it's never stated that gray need a high amount of mp to use any of his attack and how can you compare two people that used different kind of magic? Gray used a lots of attack becoz the nature of his magic while Lucy....like I said summoning and sustaining required s lots of mp.
6.she still trains and by FEATS wise she had higher mp then gray.
7. Yeah we could stick to our opinion but I love both characters and I need to disagree that gray have higher mp than Lucy.
You can't simply quantify how much MP Lucy has with assumptions and then all of a sudden put it greater than Gray's. Gray has atleast Gajeel level magical power at the very least. There are several attacks where Gray uses sufficient and taxing MP, just look at Rampart on how it exhausted him, it was a very big magical barrier. Gray with his MP dispersed the scrape of the mountain where Atlas Flame's spirit was residing. So yeah, Gray has much better MP than Lucy does.
Hyping Gray to the absolute max would put him equal to Natsu, but he doesn't have the feats to match Natsu. Unless Natsu has a demon body now or something I don't see how Gray can beat Natsu currently. Lucy and Juvia are non-factors in this fight but I'd say that Lucy is slightly stronger.
Natsu wins.
Gray insta freezes Lucy,there's nothing in her spells that would remove her from being covered in ice...
Then Gray and Juvia team up on Natsu for a two on one..
Gruvia wins this
Gray insta freezes Lucy,there's nothing in her spells that would remove her from being covered in ice...
Then Gray and Juvia team up on Natsu for a two on one..
Gruvia wins this
I don't really see how from current feats Gray and Juvia could beat Natsu. Juvia's water would be evaporated by the heat of something like FDKM and Gray hasn't shown anything power-wise to suggest he could roll with Natsu's power so I think its pretty clear Natsu and Lucy would win this.
I don't really see how from current feats Gray and Juvia could beat Natsu. Juvia's water would be evaporated by the heat of something like FDKM and Gray hasn't shown anything power-wise to suggest he could roll with Natsu's power so I think its pretty clear Natsu and Lucy would win this.
Natsu can't evaporate water from other magic users,that was made clear in his recent scuffle with God Serena...
Considering the fact that Juvia was able to hit one of the Thunder Palace's lacrima and not get vaporized already shows she wouldn't get evaporated by mere heat...
Even if Natsu is faster than Gray,Gray can always switch with Ice Clones then use Zeroth Long Sword or Destruction Bow on Natsu and KO him...
Natsu can't evaporate water from other magic users,that was made clear in his recent scuffle with God Serena...
Considering the fact that Juvia was able to hit one of the Thunder Palace's lacrima and not get vaporized already shows she wouldn't get evaporated by mere heat...
Even if Natsu is faster than Gray,Gray can always switch with Ice Clones then use Zeroth Long Sword or Destruction Bow on Natsu and KO him...
He didn't try to evaporate the water so I don't think you can rule out the possibility that he could evaporate the water, and anyway, Juvia is weaker than God Serena so if anything Natsu would have an easier time evaporating it than Serena's water. And I said Juvia's magic, not Juvia herself would get evaporated. There is a difference between the two.
As for Natsu vs Gray, Natsu has smell etc. to tell exactly where Gray is so Ice Clones aren't going to work and Gray's power output with those spells is nowhere near enough to defeat Natsu from what we've seen. Gray would need to do a whole lot better than that to even have a chance of beating him, plus just a few of Natsu's attacks (especially in FDKM or DF) would be able to take Gray out from what we've seen of Gray's durability so far. He hasn't taken anything at that level of power, so its silly to think he'd still be standing after a few of those attacks imo.
