MangaHelpers

Trip_LLL said:

I think this is a reasonable take, though I think i might have minor disagreement with the framing of the second paragraph. Regardless, laregly alligned.

I would only add that I think that fundamentally, this is "better" than how Diable Jambe and Asura came about. I think in a world where those two supernatural abilities came out of nowhere, this progression is just significantly better. And I will still maintain that Sanji learning a generic power that he had the capacity for is significantly less outrageous than him developing a unique power. Same for Zoro growing two heads.

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Very true and logical comment. I think the main issue here with a lot of us is the timing with CoC. When diable jambe first started it was a WOW moment. When CoC for Sanji is finally confirmed then subsequently "shown", it is only a wow moment. It didn't have as big of an excitement factor but I will admit, it is still a wow moment. I really enjoyed seeing Killingham getting his face smashed in. It took some time but I'm good with the way Oda is moving along with this. The pacing of everything is good too. We got so many chapters of Imu, these Zoro and Sanji interlude chapters is a nice change. We all hate Killingham and Sommers so much it is awesome to see them getting fucked up.

DeadlyBeast said:

This chapter was really great both in execution and art. I'm definitely in the camp of wow the speed at which Sanji went from nothing to aCoC is pretty insane I think some of the explanations proviced in this thread make a lot of sense.

Another perspective I think about is using real life human achievements and how once someone does something extraordinary the knowledge its possible collapses the time it takes for a second, third, fourth person to achieve it. This happens a lot in both physical achievements e.g. Olympic records and technological feats e.g. achieving flight.

I think the main obstacle for both Zoro and Sanji was to be aware they had CoC and once that happens the actual gap to aCoC is small since they know its a thing. Luffy's journey to achieve things will always be the hardest since he is usually the first to do something within the group bringing that knowledge to the rest of the SHs making it much easier for them to do it since they know what's possible.

I'm hopeful this ends up beng same path to other members starting to use regular haki, if and when they are ready.

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Yeah man I had a different perspective but I can get behind this sentiment. The world of OP is huge. People level up different skills at all sorts of pacing, including Sanji. Sanji can aCoC but could he consciously blast shockwaves to KO fodder? Can Zoro? Only subconsciously.

I think it is time to redirect our phrases such as 'advanced' because sure, Kaido did say that few people can clad CoC and that statement remains true. What he did not say is the statistic of people who learn that first or second. It looks like some people manifest their first CoC powers by overpowering others with their willpower as we saw with Doflamingo or Luffy with Duval's rhino or whatever that animal was. Zoro and Sanji didn't "skip" this step because it almost seems like they started here and I think this is a notion that, for many people, is very hard to accept. Myself included and this is why so many of us disliked the way Sanji gained CoC but Oda paints a clear picture: people grow in different ways. ACoC isn't really Advanced CoC. It is just the way CoC is used. I'd expect Zoro and Sanji to consciously do some CoC blasts soon, that will be their "ACoC" lol but honestly it shouldn't be framed that way. It should just be known as a different way to use CoC.

If we're forcing comparisons, Sasuke isn't exactly original either, he's just an alternate child take on Vegeta.

Battle shounen have been chasing the sometimes antagonistic sometimes friendly rival to copy the success of Vegeta ever since then. If anything, Yuno's actually pretty different from them since he's never antagonistic at any point.

Banned for al the Naruto talk!

Laboon said:

all of them

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Mirajane ate all of them besides its impossible as Mard got already killed by Zeref.It still makes no sense

What if Lancelot did this ?