Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

Are you satisfied with Sanji as a fighter/character in the new world?

  • He is still the best/my favourite character no need for him to change

  • yes he is well written and interesting for the story

  • Yes but he should get more satisfying fights in the future

  • yeah he is alright I dont mind him

  • He is meh...

  • He is a huge dissapointement and needs lots of training/character developpement

  • He is a pain and prevents you from fully enjoying the manga


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Pea

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He did the right thing, yes, nothing wrong with it but we cant say that Sanji is stronger than P1 because of that. That would be stupid, no?
Man. OK. I think I misunderstood. Surely none of aforementioned arguments prove Sanji is stronger.

I'm inclined to believe that Sanji is stronger due to portrayal mostly, but some of the aspects of the fight make me think that even without the suit Sanji could probably win. But it's just my opinion.

I respect yours! So yeah... :3
 

Hannibal Psyche

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disagree. Sanji didn't plan it out like that, it was unintentional therefore fair. If anything we should call the circumstances unfair...
You don't need to plan out an attack for it to be unfair. Someone could be right behind you and spontaneously decide they wanted to hit the back of your head for whatever reason. Pretty sure that's called a sucker punch and it's unfair. If they were fair, they'd let you know to get ready to fight.

For a fight to be fair, both characters must know they're engaging the other. Sanji attacked Page One whilst he was looking for clues regarding where Sanji was.
  • This is why in any sports or fighting sports, they make sure both fighters are ready at the same time to make it fair.
Attacking whilst someone isn't aware of their opponent initially is a cheap-shot and unfair. This is why no combat sporting events allow the other opponent to attack another until a sign has been given to initiate in combat.

None of Sanji's attacks against Page One reflected:
  • His skill to land an attack whether it was from being skilful or from being intimidating or from being a better fighter.
It was simply because he was invisible.

Nothing wrong with that, but if we're going to say Sanji is as strong or as fast as Page One, we can't say it when the reason Page One got hit in the first place is because he couldn't see Sanji,

The same thing applies to Absalom. He didn't prove to be stronger than Sanji or faster, he merely stayed invisible which made it difficult for Sanji to fight back. It's not a matter of Absalom being the better, faster or stronger faster.

In fact, if I re-call, didn't Absalom walk unto the Sunny when Luffy, Sanji, Zoro, Franky and co. were all there? None could attack him because they had no idea where he was.

When 2 characters are engaging on equal circumstances and both know they're fighting the other like was the case between:
  • Luffy and Katakuri
We can say this character landed their attacks because of being faster, being stronger, being more creative with their attack style and such. We can't do any of that with Sanji as long as the invisibility is a thing.

Nothing wrong with it, but it changes a lot regarding who he was represented to be pre-skip as a fighter.
 

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I am not saying that he should announce himself, never claimed that but it doesnt change the situation he landed a cheap shot. P1 was unaware of being attacked and didnt even try defending. P1 was looking for a simple soba stand owner, not for Vinsmoke Sanji. Zoro did a cheap shot on Hawkins as well, I am not claiming it only a Sanji-thing, on the contrary, Shilliew cheap-shotted Moriah, several cheap-shots during Marineford war...

Nah, that definition definitely is unfitting imo. Not being aware of being attacked thus unable to defend is a much better fit.
Like I said, it's not just Sanji thing but it doesnt change the unfair part of it. We cant say he was more powerful, faster or anything else, it's jsut that opponent wasnt aware of being attacked at all.

He did the right thing, yes, nothing wrong with it but we cant say that Sanji is stronger than P1 because of that. That would be stupid, no?

I think at this point we are arguing different things. :XD Not saying that Sanji's behavior is illogical or wrong or anything just pointing out that such hit dont hold much value when we compare who of the two is stronger.

You are arguing a different thing here. I am saying after he jumped off the roof P1 tried to counter by bitting because he clearly was able to see him.
Then Sanji vanished and landed a hit because of invisibility.

You mean P1 was aware that he was being attacked when he was demolishing houses and when Sanji landed on him from the sky? :blink If yes, how did he defend against those hits? I clearly dont see it.
If you’re looking for someone to kill you’d expext them to put up a fight so his guard should have been up.

It was his fault for underestimating his opponent... not cheap shots... he didn’t confirm his opp as dead.
This is what I mean when I say people go to length to shit on an obvious feat... if someone underestimated me, it’s not my fault if I use that to my advantage
 
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nik87

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make me think that even without the suit Sanji could probably win.
I think so too. If it was a real major fight of the arc for Sanji I think he would end up victorious in the end without RS as I think he has yet to show what he learned during 2 years TS. However, I think it would be a hard fight, not something doable quickly before Drake and Hawkins arrive who are just around the corner...
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

If you’re looking for someone to kill you’d expext them to put up a fight so his guard should have been up.
Hm, check my barfight scene I explained to Lexus. That is if its still there and didnt get deleted. :XD Your guard wouldnt be the same if you called out Buggy and if you called out Kaido. P1 was expecting some simple soba stand owner, no reason to get his guard up for such guy...

It was his fault for underestimating his opponent... not cheap shots... he didn’t confirm his opp as dead.
This is what I mean when I say people go to length to shit on an obvious feat... if someone underestimated me, it’s not their fault if I use that to my advantage
Surely there is dumb stuff from P1's side but he wasnt aware of being attacked, that's why it's cheap shot. How did he guard from first and last attack? By turning his back to Sanji? You hit me from behind, does that make you stronger? No, it's simply a cheap shot, it's a question if you would land that hit if you came from the front(and were visible)...
 

XXGenesis

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Actually fighting and Martial Art sports are different. Fighting dirty as Luffy says it best, should be expected. As to why many martial arts have crotch shots, and attacks that target the back of head or other dangerous areas, in real fighting you have to guard this obvious weak spot. As in Sports deadly blows are illegal as well crotch shots.

Camoflougue being part of Sanji's repoiretor just gives him an edge to surprise attack his opponents. It's not all that cheap
 

nik87

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Camoflougue being part of Sanji's repoiretor just gives him an edge to surprise attack his opponents. It's not all that cheap
I dont consider it cheap either once they are aware of fighting an invisible opponent. The first hit, before they are aware of it is cheap tho.
It's a great advantage and combatants without CoO might be completely helpless against it unless they have paint nearby or spit on Sanji and throw dirt to make him visible but I doubt Oda is considering those options.
 

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Highly doubt Usopp be even that strong as Sanji, Zoro, or even Jimbei. Maybe possible to be Vice Captain when it comes to leading (Cause lets be honest. If they follow Zoro, they will all perish. Following the guy who always get lost is not good idea), but don't think surpassing them.

Though I do agree on seeing Sanji, Zoro, and Jimbei as his YCs probably in the end.
He can grow to surpass his dad, and his dad seems to be a commander on Shanks ship.
 

King Moe

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He can grow to surpass his dad, and his dad seems to be a commander on Shanks ship.
He will probably, but not beyond the other 3 since they be another lvl even stronger than Yasopp end of the series.
 

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He will probably, but not beyond the other 3 since they be another lvl even stronger than Yasopp end of the series.
It’s possible... recognition wise ussop will get popular, probably not strength wise.
 

King Moe

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It’s possible... recognition wise ussop will get popular, probably not strength wise.
If by hype of God Usopp, I can see that happening. Probably might be put over Luffy as the 'real captain's despite bounty difference lol.
 

M3J

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Pretty sure normal Sanji could beat Page One
 

King Moe

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Pretty sure normal Sanji could beat Page One
Yep. He kick Page Down easily with unnamed kick before RS. He states he need something to disguise himself though. So he could have taken him regularly without it.
 

King Moe

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high diff yeah... seems he steamrolled Pageoneesince hes fine rn
I would say it be a mid-diff/mid-diff+ without RS as Top 6 Headliner is challenging, but he beat him nonetheless.
 

M3J

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I dunno what difficulty tbh, but it doesn't seem to be that high if he could take out Page One so quickly even with a suit that enhances abilities.
 

King Moe

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I dunno what difficulty tbh, but it doesn't seem to be that high if he could take out Page One so quickly even with a suit that enhances abilities.
He didn't even use named techniques, Haki (well Armament, Idk about invisible kind), or DJ. Every hit was unnamed even the first hit before wearing RS brought Page One to the ground. So at best it would be mid-diff/mid-diff+, if Page was pushed back and felt pain on unnamed attacks.
 

hokageji

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P1 could've underestimated the ability of the soba shop owner, but sending him there was definitely an overkill to begin with. While Sanji being invisible definitely played to his advantage, the guard part should've changed the minute he got kicked by Sanji...

We know zoans have great resiliency. I dont think Sanji vs Page One even completed. Sanji just quickly trashed him enough to be temporarily not cause some damage in that area and left. Page One is probably still looking for soba owner at the wrong place. If that battle didnt complete, we will see Sanji take him down in upcoming chapters without the suit.
 

King Moe

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P1 could've underestimated the ability of the soba shop owner, but sending him there was definitely an overkill to begin with. While Sanji being invisible definitely played to his advantage, the guard part should've changed the minute he got kicked by Sanji...

We know zoans have great resiliency. I dont think Sanji vs Page One even completed. Sanji just quickly trashed him enough to be temporarily not cause some damage in that area and left. Page One is probably still looking for soba owner at the wrong place. If that battle didnt complete, we will see Sanji take him down in upcoming chapters without the suit.
I think he is down for good. Law and Sanji were serious on knocking him out or else he tell his comrades where they are and plays good chance he would smell Sanji and track him down by his scent.

Not much to give reason why PO is active if they were serious of how he can be trouble for them. Plus they mention it be good to 'dwindle' their forces down which makes take down completely.

All signs are pointing more PO is defeated than active around the area especially Sanji would have told them latest chapter if he was.
 
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hokageji

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Well he could be down but to be sure, we need something more information in the manga. Anyways, lets see.. my point is Sanji vs P1 without raid suit may happen too.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Also, we've seen Zoans show way better recovery once they've been taken down. In awakened mode, its almost a complete recovery. If these zoans are gonna be awakened users, then P1 could be making a comeback sooner than later.
 
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