And how many times that I need to said THAT GRAY BARELY ABLE TO DEFEAT MARD EVEN THOUGH HE IS USING HIS SLAYING DEMON MAGIC , MAGIC THAT IS SPECIFIC TO KILL A DEMON . WHILE LUCY CSK OUT POWER MARD EVEN THOUGH SHE IS NOT USING THAT SLAYING MAGIC.... ITS RIDICULOUS... CSK CAN TURN MSRD INTO STONE AND DESTROY HIM IF ITS NOT BECOZ OF MASHIMA TRYING TO GIVE SOME TIME TO GRAY SHINE
P's.sorry for the caps rage lol .... not someone that like to said what I had already said over and over again
did people forget that Natsu can use DF in this fight??? I'm not a fan of Natsu but Natsu stomps Gray with DF. its basically no diff - low diff fight with DF.
Did you forget the fact that DF is nearly featless?
I guess Demon force Gray would stomp Natsu then, if we're gonna go there.
and don't say you're not a fan of Natsu, when you're obviously not a fan of Gray either.
If you're going to go there, I guess DF Natsu destroys and stomps Laxus into oblivion.
And how many times that I need to said THAT GRAY BARELY ABLE TO DEFEAT MARD EVEN THOUGH HE IS USING HIS SLAYING DEMON MAGIC , MAGIC THAT IS SPECIFIC TO KILL A DEMON . WHILE LUCY CSK OUT POWER MARD EVEN THOUGH SHE IS NOT USING THAT SLAYING MAGIC.... ITS RIDICULOUS... CSK CAN TURN MSRD INTO STONE AND DESTROY HIM IF ITS NOT BECOZ OF MASHIMA TRYING TO GIVE SOME TIME TO SHINE
Gray barely beat EF Marde because of speed and flight disadvantage and that's why Marde resorted to flight because he knew if he stayed on ground level, Gray would've destroyed him. Maybe your memory is off because Gray destroyed Base Marde. The same Base Marde who toyed with CSK and held a book in his hand. EF Marde would wreck CSK. Oh and EF Marde's best attack was endured by Gray. I love how you conveniently ignored all of this.
Why even bring up CSK Lucy? It's not like Lucy is going to break her golden keys as it would be OOC. In a solo effort, Lucy would be destroyed by Gray and high diffed by Juvia.
Oh and it takes time for Lucy to summon CSK, it's not instantaneous you know. That's where she's very vulnerable.
Lol,so apparently summoning CSK is now enough to beat Gruvia,CSK is only on Mard Geer's level,who Gray already bested and that was just his Tartaros level...Current Gray would have an easier time with Mard and by extension the CSK...
Also:
Ice Make:Silver=Demolition Fist
Can people stop spreading around these fallacies that Gray's Ice Make:Silver is equal to Natsu's punches?Sheesh,you'd think downplaying wouldn't be too obvious..
Also I find it amusing how no one has explained how Gray will be affected by fire attacks when they've never even fazed him in the manga..
Look closely:
-Fukuro used Natsu's flames on Gray,they didn't do anything to him
-Rufus used Fire Magic on Gray,it didn't do anything to him..
Coming from someone who's ALWAYS been portrayed to be Gray's equal in the manga (ffs they fought for 3 days straight with no clear cut winner after the GMG,and that was Natsu with LFD and w/e else he had at the time)...saying Natsu>>Gray?Lol
Yea sure he was Natsu's equal for most of the manga but ever since the time skip Gray hasn't shown anything at all that suggests he's still on Natsu's level. I guess we just have to wait for Gray's inevitable Spriggan battle to know for sure.
Yea sure he was Natsu's equal for most of the manga but ever since the time skip Gray hasn't shown anything at all that suggests he's still on Natsu's level. I guess we just have to wait for Gray's inevitable Spriggan battle to know for sure.
Only because Natsu is getting more screentime.They'd fair the same against all opponents Natsu has fought so far:
BlueNote= Natsu used a base roar,Gray would just insta freeze him
Avatar=Gray one shotted Goumon and Briar,Natsu pretty much did the same to Arlock
Ikusutsanagi=Natsu used Demolition Fist;Gray would just use Ice Make:Silver
Alvarez:Natsu beating Lessio with Lucy and Makarov's help=Gray beating Ul with Lyon's help (even if we know Gray should have beaten Ul earlier)
See?Nothing between these 2 has ever changed,at all..
Natsu and Gray have always been equals.
FDKM=DeS
Did you forget the fact that DF is nearly featless?
I guess Demon force Gray would stomp Natsu then, if we're gonna go there.
and don't say you're not a fan of Natsu, when you're obviously not a fan of Gray either.
If you're going to go there, I guess DF Natsu destroys and stomps Laxus into oblivion.
DF Natsu > Laxus > FDKM Natsu >= Gray. DF is the pinnacle of the Dragon Slaying magic. I don't hate Gray but I don't see how can he easily match Natsu here. he lacks a lot of feats. heck, we don't even know if Gray has Demon Force.
Mard Geer didn't wreck CSK. Mard Geer was dodging all of his attacks and collide with his non powered sword. he was waiting for Lucy to drain off her magic power to defeat CSK. CSK was also summoned when Lucy had low MP. Gray had the big advantage over Mard Geer. saying that he is above CSK is like saying Wendy is above Jura during GMG because she did something to that Dragon while Jura didn't do anything.
DF Natsu > Laxus > FDKM Natsu >= Gray. DF is the pinnacle of the Dragon Slaying magic. I don't hate Gray but I don't see how can he win here. he lacks a lot of feats.
Mard Geer didn't wreck CSK. Mard Geer was dodging all of his attacks and collide with his non powered sword. he was waiting for Lucy to drain off her magic power to defeat CSK. CSK was also summoned when Lucy had low MP. Gray had the big advantage over Mard Geer. saying that he is above CSK is like saying Wendy is above Jura during GMG because she did something to that Dragon while Jura didn't do anything.
For all we know DeF=DF . It's all assumptions when you're speaking about DF Natsu as he lacks the feats.
Never said Gray will win this since Natsu has FDK. he should be able to give Base Natsu a high diff-extreme fight (maybe even win with slaying advantage), and FDKM a mid-diff fight or mid-high diff. When he gets his well deserved feats, the level of difficulty gets higher, and they become closer. All we know is the portrayal, Des Gray and Base Natsu fought as equals with the same level of difficulty.
Marde Geer with a smirk on his face, along with holding a book so one-handed was casually dodging all of a pissed off CSK's movements along with his big strikes. With his boost in stats from his transformation, I would wager EF Marde would dominate CSK
I never said Gray is above CSK btw. Heck CSK alone is above Natsu.
Only because Natsu is getting more screentime.They'd fair the same against all opponents Natsu has fought so far:
BlueNote= Natsu used a base roar,Gray would just insta freeze him
Avatar=Gray one shotted Goumon and Briar,Natsu pretty much did the same to Arlock
Ikusutsanagi=Natsu used Demolition Fist;Gray would just use Ice Make:Silver
Alvarez:Natsu beating Lessio with Lucy and Makarov's help=Gray beating Ul with Lyon's help (even if we know Gray should have beaten Ul earlier)
See?Nothing between these 2 has ever changed,at all..
Natsu and Gray have always been equals.
FDKM=DeS
Bluenote: We have no proof that Gray would be able to instafreeze him
Arlock: Gray hasn't shown the physical strength to suggest that he could have broken through his magical barriers.
Ikusatsunagi: Ice Make Silver's only feat is freezing a sand golem that is nowhere near Ikusatsunagi's size.
Alvarez: Beating a Spriggan is by far more impressive than beating Ur
Now I'm not claiming that it's impossible for Gray to be on Natsu's level. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying it would be wise to wait for some more feats from him before making assumptions. As of right now what he's shown isnt enough to put him on Natsu's level 100%.
Never said Gray will win this since Natsu has FDK. he should be able to give Base Natsu a high diff fight (maybe even win with slaying advantage), and FDKM a mid-diff fight. When he gets his well deserved feats, the level of difficulty gets higher, and they become closer. All we know is the portrayal, Des Gray and Base Natsu fought as equals with the same level of difficulty.
Marde Geer with a smirk on his face, along with holding a book so one-handed was casually dodging all of a pissed off CSK's movements along with his big strikes. With his boost in stats from his transformation, I would wager EF Marde would dominate CSK
I never said Gray is above CSK btw. Heck CSK alone is above Laxus, Jellal for starters.
its logical to say that DeS Gray and base Natsu are equal but not FDKM nor DF, not yet. unless Gray shows us something.
Mard Geer toyed with anyone. he did the same thing against Natsu, Sting and Rogue and took LFD punch to the face with no flinching. he was getting damaged when Gray came in which is why base Natsu and LFDM Natsu managed to damage him. CSK is slow and he wasn't in his prime but when it comes to raw power he takes the cake.
Bluenote: We have no proof that Gray would be able to instafreeze him
Arlock: Gray hasn't shown the physical strength to suggest that he could have broken through his magical barriers.
Ikusatsunagi: Ice Make Silver's only feat is freezing a sand golem that is nowhere near Ikusatsunagi's size.
Alvarez: Beating a Spriggan is by far more impressive than beating Ur
Now I'm not claiming that it's impossible for Gray to be on Natsu's level. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying it would be wise to wait for some more feats from him before making assumptions. As of right now what he's shown isnt enough to put him on Natsu's level 100%.
Bluenote: I think Gray would instant freeze him, because his magic was enough to instant freeze Natsu. Ofcourse it's Silver's feat, but still it counts for someting since Gray's improved over the one year timespan
Arlock: What magical barriers???
Ikausatnuagi: I agree, the War God is underrated. I would still say Gray beats him, but def not oneshot-twoshot.
Alvares: Natsu didn't beat that spriggan alone, he's not spriggan tier yet.
I agree, I wouldn't put Gray on FDKM Natsu level, but Base Natsu right now for sure. Heck, I put Base Natsu on Erza level.
When Gray gets more feats under his belt, he'll be closer to Natsu is 100 percent. We just have to be patient which is why I don't understand what's the point of making this thread? What purpose does it even serve other than having it favourable for NaLu.
its logical to say that DeS Gray and base Natsu are equal but not FDKM nor DF, not yet. unless Gray shows us something.
Mard Geer toyed with anyone. he did the same thing against Natsu, Sting and Rogue and took LFD punch to the face with no flinching. he was getting damaged when Gray came in which is why base Natsu and LFDM managed to damage him. CSK is slow and he wasn't in his prime but when it comes to raw power he takes the cake.
Yep based on portrayal at the very least, and some attacks of scale. Agreed, unless Gray shows us new feats, for now he's at Base Natsu level. It may change in time where he can be placed at FDKM Natsu level. Anything can change after all.
Yes, but Natsu, Sting and Rogue are nowhere near CSK level. CSK was still pissed off and enraged, and was still getting toyed by a non-serious Base Marde. Having more raw power doesn't really mean you stand much of a chance in battle, or win considering you still need the attack movement speed to even connect the hit. So with that said EF Marde>CSK.
Yes, but Natsu, Sting and Rogue are nowhere near CSK level. CSK was still pissed off and enraged, and was still getting toyed by a non-serious Base Marde. Having more raw power doesn't really mean you stand much of a chance in battle, or win considering you still need the attack movement speed to even connect the hit. So with that said EF Marde>CSK.
tbh, Mard Geer didn't really do anything against CSK either. I mean, he used Thorns to pierce him but it did little to no damage against him, not to mention his regen. I say Tartaros Prime CSK > Etherios Mard Geer and Alvarez CSK > Etherios Mard Geer.
tbh, Mard Geer didn't really do anything against CSK either. I mean, he used Thorns to pierce him but it did little to no damage against him, not to mention his regen. I say Tartaros Prime CSK > Etherios Mard Geer and Alvarez CSK > Etherios Mard Geer.
I think Momento Mori would seal the deal against CSK, and with a combination of spamming his stronger thorns in his EF mode which should be logically stronger than the ones he used againt the CSK.
I think Momento Mori would seal the deal against CSK, and with a combination of spamming his stronger thorns in his EF mode which should be logically stronger than the ones he used againt the CSK.
Momento Mori vs Meteor Blade or Galaxis Blade. hm, if CSK turns Mard Geer into stone and uses Meteor Blade then its game over. Momento Mori didn't even work against Natsu and Gray although that might be because of Gray.
Momento Mori vs Meteor Blade or Galaxis Blade. hm, if CSK turns Mard Geer into stone and uses Meteor Blade then its game over. Momento Mori didn't even work against Natsu and Gray although that might be because of Gray.
It would be far difficult for CSK to use his stone and meteor blade technique considering he's pretty slow, and the fact that Marde Geer has a very good margin of speed advantage gives him the edge here.
It would be far difficult for CSK to use his stone and meteor blade technique considering he's pretty slow, and the fact that Marde Geer has a very good margin of speed advantage gives him the edge here.
ofc but if they cast their most powerful spells then they must stay on the same spot and not just go and run away. besides, this is Prime CSk. I doubt that he will be as slow as he was during his battle against Base Mard Geer.
anyway, we are going off topic here. I say NaLu wins with mid diff.
Lol,so apparently summoning CSK is now enough to beat Gruvia,CSK is only on Mard Geer's level,who Gray already bested and that was just his Tartaros level...Current Gray would have an easier time with Mard and by extension the CSK...
Also:
Ice Make:Silver=Demolition Fist
Can people stop spreading around these fallacies that Gray's Ice Make:Silver is equal to Natsu's punches?Sheesh,you'd think downplaying wouldn't be too obvious..
Also I find it amusing how no one has explained how Gray will be affected by fire attacks when they've never even fazed him in the manga..
Look closely:
-Fukuro used Natsu's flames on Gray,they didn't do anything to him
-Rufus used Fire Magic on Gray,it didn't do anything to him..
Coming from someone who's ALWAYS been portrayed to be Gray's equal in the manga (ffs they fought for 3 days straight with no clear cut winner after the GMG,and that was Natsu with LFD and w/e else he had at the time)...saying Natsu>>Gray?Lol
Demolition Fist knocked out Jacob. In terms of AoE, Ice Make: Silver stacks up to base Natsu's punches against the GMG stadium, Arlock, or the Alvarez troops. Remember, the GMG stadium can house a city. The area that Ice-Make Silver effected is roughly equivalent to the hill that Natsu and Arlock were standing on (scale the trees). That hill can been seen over Ikusatsunagi's right shoulder. You can just about make out the crater of Natsu's punch, and if you zoom in on the crater you can actually make out a figure standing up (Natsu) and one on the ground (Arlock). This helps to illustrate the sheer size of demolition fist, as that was what shattered Ikusatsunagi.
In terms of damage dealt, base Natsu's attacks can take out anyone up to Bluenote's level - which means it easily scales to Gray's DeS attacks like Zero Longsword. The body heat of FDK mode was enough to cause Jacob, a Spriggan 12 member, to recoil in pain. This wasn't even the actual punch, which was a knock out. On the other hand, Ajeel suffered no injuries being encased in Ice-Make-Silver. In summary, Fire Dragon King's demolition fist has larger AoE and deals more damage than Ice-Make: Silver. Ice Make: Silver scales in AoE to base Natsu's attacks, and base Natsu's attacks scales to devil slayer attacks like Ice Devil's Zero Longsword in terms of attack potency.
Fire does effect Gray. Fukuro's fire, which was actually a portion of Natsu's power, was actually enough to heavily injure Gray to the point where he was too injured to continue in the tower of Heaven. Happy actually had to carry Gray out, and the next time we see him he was actually unconscious. Also, notice the effort that went into freezing just one fire dragon's roar. It was clearly achieved with the power of feelings, and Simon even commented on this. Now, I'm not saying that Gray would go down with just one roar. Current Gray has improved dramatically since Tower of Heaven. However, to imply that all fires wouldn't even phase him? That's simply not true. It should depend on the mage, and how powerful their attacks are portrayed to be. As it happens to be, Natsu's fires can oneshot opponents of Bluenotes caliber, shatter gods, make a Spriggan recoil with his body heat, and knock out said Spriggan should the punch connect. Gray's attacks haven't been shown these types of performance yet.
I'm going to only quote the statements I deem to be ridiculous.
I already showed you an indication of magic power feats Gray displayed in the Sun village. His base form was enough to disperse a scrape of a mountain that had Atlas's soul residing in. That shows he has very good magic power.
Still waiting for the panel of these Gray feats people are claiming and an a comparison between feats. Gray manipulated a potion of Silver's Ice in Sun village because his power alone wasn't strong enough to melt the Ice.
You need prove for your claims that CSK in particular SDress Lucy can sustain CSK in the real world, considering she has not been put into the situation. What has the tsunami ever done in terms of feats? What has the sandstorm done against a legit opponent?. How the heck can Gemini copy someone like Kagura and Minerva? This is illogical and irrational. She has shown to copy Marin level opponents, let's leave it that. What's ridiculous is you're putting Lucy into some grand pedestal that she can copy characters several tiers above her. You're making it sound like she has Natsu level magical power. It doesn't matter how big your attacks are when your attack potency to releasing these attacks aren't that good. Gray's magic was enough to oneshot Tartaros level Natsu characters, what has Lucy done in comparison to that magic? Let me give you a hint: Nothing.
Yes, Lucy's magic is weaker than Gray's, because Gray is simply much much stronger than her, so logically his magic would be that much stronger as well.
1. Gray's magic was designed to take out Demons while Lucy even without Devil slayer magic was taking out demons. Gray gets no points for taking out a 9DG. Someone like GMG Wendy could hurt Zinconis while someone like Mirajane Sitri couldn't. Doesn't mean GMG Wendy>>>Sitri Mirajane.
2. Lucy used her own magical power to summon the CSK. The CSK was already summoned before Lucy went into Aquarius Mode.
1. Jackal and Torafusa were toying around, and in the whole melee all of her spirits got oneshotted after a few exchanges. Aquarius was the only one who withstanding a attack that had some merit. Loke just got a cut from a blade, that's about it.
2. CSK outclasses many characters, even Natsu, but that means nothing. Um you're clearly forgetting that Aquarius+ CSK's own powers and magic was enough to summon CSK, so it wasn't all Lucy. Stop giving credit to Lucy, when she had major help into summoning him.
3. Those magical dolls were recreated so Loke didn't do anything to put it , and Gray used a casual ice make hammer, while Leo was relying on his upper strength.
4. There's a difference between freezing a portion of a land, compared to Aquarius simply drowning characters especially when she in the water to begin with as the ship was sailing through the ocean. Gray did it on a deserted land. Ridiculous comparison without looking at the facts. It's quite easy to summon more water, when you're in water. Genius.
5. You do realize that Yukino is there as well right? and they combined their magical power, so again you're giving Lucy credit when other characters deserve more or just as much credit as Lucy.
1. Leo and Torafusa were evenly matched and Leo was only using casual punches. So neither Leo nor Torafusa went all out. Also Aquarius was able to hold off Jackal who was serious. Also Leo and Virgo were taken out by the same attack that took out Lamy who Survived Sayla's Limit release attack. Only reason Aquarius was hit because Torafusa had resistance towards water.
2. Already pointed out that Lucy summoned the CSK before Aquarius mode came into play.
3. Once again Leo used a Causal punch compared to Gray's Ice hammer which during this time was 1 of his top spells. Unless you can give me many more stronger spells from Gray at this time.
4. There is not. Both rely on magical power to do. How much Aquarius can control is proportional to Lucy's magical power. Aquarius also did something similar with simply a stream of water during the S class trails.
[
/spoiler]
Also Juvia with SO couldn't control that much water like Aquarius did in chapter 1 and they were in a huge sphere of water.
So the more Magical power a water user has the more water they can control.
5. Yes I do realize that Yukino was there which is why I didn't say 12 spirits but 10. Also Lucy opened her 10 Zodaic keys and Yukino her 2 zodiac keys. Even by Unison raid standards Yukino and Lucy would have only combined their types of magic such as when Gray combines his Ice with Juvia's water. They don't combine magical energies but rather specific types of magic.
People aren't belittling Lucy's feats, they are simply telling you how her feats are unimpressive compared to the characters she is being compared to right now. Lucy was able to summon 6-10 thanks to Yukino's aid, so it's a testament to a combined magical power effort, not solo. There's this girl holding Lucy, it's no ghost. Her name is Yukino. Yes it was a unison, not a unison raid, a unison. Lucy was grateful to have Yukino there for a reason.
Lucy hasn't shown to be training that much, when her job was mostly as a reporter and finding the locations of the other characters. I'd wager she trained, but not more than someone like Juvia. Yes, Gray's magical power at his best is far much ahead of Lucy's. Indira and xxEliteXXAceXX answered that already. What's BS and nonsensical is your first post yesterday and how somehow Juvia is a non-factor against Lucy when it's so laughable based on their respective feats plus your other comments in that post you made.
People rank Gray high because he has shown to accumulate tons of better feats than characters in this match up that isn't Natsu over the span of the series as well as at a young age... and he has the portrayal to be around his level, so take into account especially when he's featless right now in combat considering Mashima is holding him back in power for important battles.
So yes, He's pegged at a level where he belongs in by these people. You on the other putting him on a level that he's not which simply contradicts how Mashima-sensei portrays these characters.
Cool, atleast in terms of feats, the arguments favour Gray more as he has feats of taking down strong demons with his magic and endured the strongest curse known at the time a year ago.
You have yet to post any in panel feats to support your posts. Your saying Gray's magical power is so much greater than Lucy but you haven't provided any panels to support that claim. Your best argument is the demon slaying magic killing demons although that argument is flawed for obvious reasons. As I already pointed out that magic was specifically designed to take out Demons just like Dragon Slayer magic to take out Dragons. By your logic since Wendy was able to hurt a Dragon and Makarov wasn't that Wendy had more magical power than Makarov.
FT ultimate tag team -- future couple -- who both happen to be the main protagonists VS a strong, though relatively featless, side protagonist & his fodder-tier girlfriend. Hahahahaha what a fantastic matchup......
Still waiting for the panel of these Gray feats people are claiming and an a comparison between feats. Gray manipulated a potion of Silver's Ice in Sun village because his power alone wasn't strong enough to melt the Ice.
1. Gray's magic was designed to take out Demons while Lucy even without Devil slayer magic was taking out demons. Gray gets no points for taking out a 9DG. Someone like GMG Wendy could hurt Zinconis while someone like Mirajane Sitri couldn't. Doesn't mean GMG Wendy>>>Sitri Mirajane.
2. Lucy used her own magical power to summon the CSK. The CSK was already summoned before Lucy went into Aquarius Mode.
1. Leo and Torafusa were evenly matched and Leo was only using casual punches. So neither Leo nor Torafusa went all out. Also Aquarius was able to hold off Jackal who was serious. Also Leo and Virgo were taken out by the same attack that took out Lamy who Survived Sayla's Limit release attack. Only reason Aquarius was hit because Torafusa had resistance towards water.
2. Already pointed out that Lucy summoned the CSK before Aquarius mode came into play.
3. Once again Leo used a Causal punch compared to Gray's Ice hammer which during this time was 1 of his top spells. Unless you can give me many more stronger spells from Gray at this time.
4. There is not. Both rely on magical power to do. How much Aquarius can control is proportional to Lucy's magical power. Aquarius also did something similar with simply a stream of water during the S class trails.
[
/spoiler]
Also Juvia with SO couldn't control that much water like Aquarius did in chapter 1 and they were in a huge sphere of water.
So the more Magical power a water user has the more water they can control.
5. Yes I do realize that Yukino was there which is why I didn't say 12 spirits but 10. Also Lucy opened her 10 Zodaic keys and Yukino her 2 zodiac keys. Even by Unison raid standards Yukino and Lucy would have only combined their types of magic such as when Gray combines his Ice with Juvia's water. They don't combine magical energies but rather specific types of magic.
You have yet to post any in panel feats to support your posts. Your saying Gray's magical power is so much greater than Lucy but you haven't provided any panels to support that claim. Your best argument is the demon slaying magic killing demons although that argument is flawed for obvious reasons. As I already pointed out that magic was specifically designed to take out Demons just like Dragon Slayer magic to take out Dragons. By your logic since Wendy was able to hurt a Dragon and Makarov wasn't that Wendy had more magical power than Makarov.
Yeah, no. Manipulating a portion of Ice means, you are able to use your own magical power to accumulate the feats. It's because of Gray's magical power was the reason that he was able to disperse it. Gray's intention was to channel the properties of Silver's magic, to manipulate the ice, however his magic power was too much that he accidentally dispersed the whole frontal region of the mountain. That is an MP feat.
1. You do realize she wasn't talking about Demons, or against demons in particular? Can you comprehend that much? No point did she mention slaying advantage, so your argument is invalid and moot. She's talking general points.
2.Lucy was able to summon the CSk because of her breaking of the golden key and her eventual trust in Aquarius, it has nothing to do with magical power when Aquarius mentioned the requirements used to summon her.
Whether Lucy used MP to summon is un-quantified how much usage was put in, and not proven so it's not a direct MP feat. The fact remains that CSK was grounded to the earth not only from Lucy's MP, but also because of CSK's own powers, and Aquarius assistance.
At best the requirements is having the MP to summon 3 spirits at once to summon CSK.
We know for a fact that Lucy's Aquarius mode wasn't a testament to her own magical power.
1. Lol, evenly matched? Does this look like to you that were evenly matched.
Torafusa's condition had him uneffected, while Loke was cut on his arm. Where is the indication Loke wasn't going all out? He had every reason to do so considering he's using his strongest magic and had the need to protect Lucy from danger, while Torafusa wasn't even using 10 percent of his. Loke was using regulus imbued punches, hence he's serious, that isn't casual.
Loke who suffered literally only an arm damage was oneshotted by a casual blast from Loke and Virgo. Sayla's blast wasn't aimed at Lamy, she just suffered the collateral damage, which isn't impressive because she was no where near her range.
Aquarius caught Jackal off-guard when she first attacked, since Jackal asked a question and Aquarius went with a cheap shot. Jackal wasn't serious. At every indication when Aquarius swarmed over Jackal, he wasn't focused on her. He was focused his intentions on Lucy because of PIS/CIS
This proves that her spirits are unimpressive. (This proves that her spirits are unimpressive. Considering Aquarius her strongest spirit only got the upperhand on Base Jackal on guard when he was distracted)
2. Already pointed out that there's no indication MP is involved in the summoning of CSK. Already pointed out that that even if Lucy used MP the amount she may used is un-quantified.
3.One of his top spells? my ass it is. IM hammer is a basic and very casual spell, it was as casual as Loke's punches. It has shown no feats of being his top tier spells, that even Lyon was hardly phased by it. Even Gray's mid tier spells have far better destructive feats than IM Hammer
Gray's IM Lancer sword/arrows
Gray's Ice Canon
Gray's Ice Geyser
(Also Gray has showed considerable amount of MP feats as he was able to with freeze molten hot lava moisturized water from an enraged-S class mage from a rival guild, with just his ice)
Feat wise. It doesn't even make the portion of Gray's medium level spells.
Saying at the time is irrelevant, considering Gray was holding back, and wasn't shirtless, and he wasn't going all out. Then we look at 7 Slice dance, Gungnir, Super Freeze Arrow amongst other attacks, and yeah IM Hammer is very low in his moveset and doesn't take much power to cast. It shows your lack of knowledge in regards to Gray's moveset since you actually came to a point that you pegged it as a "one of his top spells". IM Hammer has shit for feats.
4.You have to prove that Aquarius relies on Lucy's magical power to summon her attacks. What Aquarius relies on from Lucy is to remain grounded on the earth. How much Aquarius was able to summon water is an indication of her feats. Look at the location regions, Aquarius was summoned in a pool of water, that has hardly impressive compared to what Gray showed.
Oh you want more MP feats than what I showed, aren't satisfied enough?
How about these
This scale of barrier formation was high enough to even reach even higher length of the trees in the vicinity. It covered portion of the forest they were fighting.
-That was 8 years ago.
-Mastering Iced Shell at an early age also indicates Gray's level of magical power above Lucy's on that fact alone.
Still not enough for you?
What about this?
Marde Geer looked like ant in comparision.
or even this, his IM spell.
Show me an attacks where Lucy used from a MP standpoint from her spirits that has in the same output of scales as these attacks? Her best MP feats are summoning 3 spirits. and therefore DeS Gray outclasses Lucy in terms of magical power. That's all proof one needs that shows Gray's magical power is far above Lucy's and it's not close.
Demonized Gray who has trained far longer than Lucy has is a tier above. Makarov pointed out has a change in magical power, easily outclasses Lucy. I'll be generous and give Lucy benefit of doubt that she's on the same tier as Base Gray, but ofc below him in that regard as well. DeS Gray however stomps her in magical power.
Oh and my first initial response in the thread was mostly directed at you.
"Gray has been a fighter since he was 10 fighting and training with his master and Lyon, having preserving and gaining
magical power as his body ages, while Lucy at the same age was in her mansion playing dolls with her servants so obviously Gray would have that much more MP than Lucy does".
Once again, she never said anything about Gray killing demons. Read her posts carefully and understand them. So you're pointing out unnecessary logic at something that is literally irrelevant to the context.
And how many times that I need to said THAT GRAY BARELY ABLE TO DEFEAT MARD EVEN THOUGH HE IS USING HIS SLAYING DEMON MAGIC , MAGIC THAT IS SPECIFIC TO KILL A DEMON . WHILE LUCY CSK OUT POWER MARD EVEN THOUGH SHE IS NOT USING THAT SLAYING MAGIC.... ITS RIDICULOUS... CSK CAN TURN MSRD INTO STONE AND DESTROY HIM IF ITS NOT BECOZ OF MASHIMA TRYING TO GIVE SOME TIME TO GRAY SHINE
P's.sorry for the caps rage lol .... not someone that like to said what I had already said over and over again
lol the CSK wasted all his magic just turning Mard to stone instead of actually hurting him. Not to mention Gray would of one-sidely stomped Mard if not for Jiemma's interference.
@ The mods, and at the OP in particualr, Why is this thread exist?
So you guys can hype up and propel NaLu?
VS threads are meant to be fair, that's the purpose of it. Posting a guy who has shown feats vs a another guy hasn't shown feats, makes absolutely no sense.
For the record, Gray destroys Lucy in magical power + output, and has much more MP than her, this isn't even an argument lol. Ridiculous how it's reached this far.
Lucy isn't no Natsu tier in MP.
FT ultimate tag team -- future couple -- who both happen to be the main protagonists VS a strong, though relatively featless, side protagonist & his fodder-tier girlfriend. Hahahahaha what a fantastic matchup......
And how many times that I need to said THAT GRAY BARELY ABLE TO DEFEAT MARD EVEN THOUGH HE IS USING HIS SLAYING DEMON MAGIC , MAGIC THAT IS SPECIFIC TO KILL A DEMON . WHILE LUCY CSK OUT POWER MARD EVEN THOUGH SHE IS NOT USING THAT SLAYING MAGIC.... ITS RIDICULOUS... CSK CAN TURN MSRD INTO STONE AND DESTROY HIM IF ITS NOT BECOZ OF MASHIMA TRYING TO GIVE SOME TIME TO GRAY SHINE
P's.sorry for the caps rage lol .... not someone that like to said what I had already said over and over again
Please stop at this moment. I can't take your posts seriously considering how much you ignored the happenings in the manga. Gray pulverized the same Marde, CSK fought.
